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909's 2 rounder

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by Chargerfn909, Apr 18, 2010.

  1. Chargerfn909

    Chargerfn909 High and tight kid, high and tight!

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    I love Graham. However I honestly do not think he's much better than English. Larry is gonna beast this year. I re-watched the Sr. Bowl from last year just the other day and Larry looks just as impressive.

    Larry stuggled transing from the 4-3DE to the 3-4 OLB, but like I said expect 10 sacks this year from him.
     
  2. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Just dont agree. There is not one LB on a roster that has 5.0 speed. He may look faster in a college game but he wont in the NFL.

    It wont let me copy it from the site but here is what it says on one scouting report on him:

    Extreme lack of speed and range, stiff with average athleticism, ..is not very quick and lacks burst to close, ...plays too tall, gets out of control at times, ...could be a liability in coverage, ...upside is limited.
     
  3. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Hold on please clarify.... are you saying he'll play 4-3 OLB? Or a 3-4 OLB?
     
  4. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    I do, Graham is a lot quicker than Larry but i do hope Larry is a beast.
     
  5. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    This
     
  6. Chargerfn909

    Chargerfn909 High and tight kid, high and tight!

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    I honestly do not think Graham is much faster. Larry is fast as **** off the ball man, in fact it's what got him in the majority of his trouble last year.

    When I said I re-watched the Sr. Bowl that's what I noticed, that Larry is EXPLOSIVE off the ball. We will see how Graham translates, but I wouldn't be surprised if Larry and him have similair career numbers.

    Oh, and they were BOTH compared to LaMarr Woodley coming out of College..
     
  7. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Agreed.

    I just don't understand why I was being patronized for pointing out that he played DE for Michigan.
     
  8. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    :icon_shrug: I posted their depth chart to prove it
     
  9. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Troup will go sometime between our picks at 40 and 91. I don't like Terrance Cody, I have questions about Cam Thomas, and I don't believe Linval Joseph is a true NT. So I took the guy who I believe will be the best NT of the lot.


    I surprised myself with the Atkins pick.:lol: I think its damn near pointless to draft a 3-4 DE at all this year, and I wouldn't care at all if we just let him pass. But as long as we've already addressed NT and RB....Atikins would give us a reason to cut dead weight like Boone, Bingham, and Scott.
     
  10. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Im thinking more like 68 to 103

    You need to do a full mock because it seems many who just do Charger mocks think some of these guys will be at certain spots. If you do a full mock, it will give you a better idea of where players could go. Some are going to fall because there is a lot of talent in this draft. You cant have 50 1st rounders, 50 2nd rounders and 50 3rds.

    I may have Troup falling too far but i did a full 7 just recently(posted elsewhere) and i have him going 103. I have McCluster going 100...there are some good players in this draft and teams will get the best one for their need or just best period and i realize teams will grab the NT's but there are other possitions too. WR is loaded, DL is loaded, TE is loaded, OT is loaded, RB is only OK, CB is loaded.

    I just dont see anyway Troup goes #40 at all. But, if he does, ill eat the crow.

    As for the dead weight, thats what i was saying all along for a DE.
     
  11. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I agree I'd like to move down a couple spots, scoop up some more picks and get him in the mid-late 2nd round. But you got to think of the 3-4 teams that NEED or could use a NT right now.

    Buffalo @ 41
    Denver @ 43
    San Francisco @ 49
    Pittsburgh @ 52
    Baltimore @ 57
    Arizona @ 58
    NY Jets @ 61
    Kansas City @ 68....this is where I think he'll go.
    Cleveland @ 71
    Buffalo @ 72
    Miami @ 73
    Denver @ 80
    Pittsburgh @ 82
    Cleveland again @ 85
    Arizona @ 88 and 89.


    You are sniffing something if you think a NT prospect with the upside of Torrell Troup will fall to us again at 91.
     
  12. Chargerfn909

    Chargerfn909 High and tight kid, high and tight!

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    You gotta understand man.. Just ANOTHER DE isn't needed, you are right. -- However I see Price being a game changer, completely dominant and someone who will make our OLB's THRIVE. He's disruptive, he lives in opposing teams backfields and best of all he's a FOOTBALL player and a damn good one at that!
     
  13. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Troup played in conference USA. I didnt see him at all asside from the shrine game so i cant say what his upside is. Not many players make it from that conference and not saying he cant but i just dont know where this upside is coming from.
    I dont think there is a stud NT in this entire draft. I actually think Cody may be better than Dan Williams who i havent been impressed with much.


    Have you ever seen this? This is a very interesting piece.

    http://football.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/16495/20100402/interview_with_the_scout_part_ii/


    Interview With The Scout, Part II
    2nd April, 2010 - 11:03 am
    Jeff Risdon/RealGM -
    The draft is just three weeks away, which means draft boards are being finalized. Individual team visits and pro days are nearing their conclusions, and agents are actively pushing the stock of their clients (note to one particular agent: stop spamming me with press releases!).

    I conducted another interview with a current NFL scout, but we got sort of waylaid by interlopers and other responsibilities. This is shorter than I wanted but still provides some valuable insight.

    Jeff Risdon: After his strong pro day, it’s a given that Sam Bradford will be taken #1 overall. I’m not sold at all on Bradford and I wonder what your opinion of him going #1 overall might be?

    Scout: We’re damn glad it isn’t us picking there. Look, Sam Bradford might wind up being a hell of a quarterback, but I wouldn’t touch him at #1. The last two times he got hit, his shoulder got hurt. He doesn’t do us any good if he can’t stay on the field. That’s why they need a QB in the first place, because Marc Bulger couldn’t take the hits anymore.

    JR: How much stock does your team place in health concerns?

    Scout: It’s a big deal. ...we look at how the injuries happened. If a kid gets caught in a horse collar and breaks his ankle, that’s one thing. But to go back to Bradford, he got hurt on hits that most guys just shake off. Big Ben (Roethlisberger) gets hit like that 20 times a week. So that’s a real big deal with him.

    JR: Keeping on that injury theme, Jahvid Best suffered a nasty concussion last year. Are concussions viewed differently than a shoulder or a knee?

    Scout: You know what, we spend so much to make sure these kids with the concussions are clear now. I don’t know for sure but I bet we check out (head injuries) harder than we do anything else these days. We had a doctor come in and give us a little presentation about concussions and how they can come back, stuff like that. We are more comfortable than we used to be there. Best has passed every test so we’re not that worried about him.

    JR: Aside from Tim Tebow, the player I get asked more about than any other is Jimmy Clausen. I know you’ve scouted him extensively.

    Scout: Yeah I have. I’ve seen every snap he took and a lot of them more than a few times. The thing about him is that kid just loves football and it’s his whole life. All these people talk about him being this or being that, and they sure as hell haven’t ever spent time with him. Because that kid is all about making himself the best NFL quarterback, and he’s got the physical ability to do it.

    JR: But will he be successful?

    Scout: I really think so. Look, he’s got some warts. That kid was a world class ***** when he got there, but he figured it out and grew up. You could really see it over the last year. They ran an NFL offense and (Clausen) made reads and drops that none of the other guys have even thought about. He just anticipates routes so well. Now would I like to see him gun it a little harder sometimes, yeah, sure. But for my money this kid is the surest bet in this draft (at QB).

    JR: We’ve talked about this before, but I’m not nearly as high on the offensive tackle crop this year as most people. How do you feel about it?

    Scout: You know, I think some of the kids that people aren’t looking at as high are gonna be real good. That kid from Indiana (Rodger Saffold), that kid can flat out play. If he came from Oklahoma or Florida he’d be a top 10 pick, no question in my mind. I like (Charles) Brown out of USC more the more I see him. A lot of Brick (D’Brickashaw Ferguson) in that kid but he might be a little tougher. ...I know you really like Kyle Calloway. On the right side he’ll be fine but he ain’t no zone guy. Even that kid from Abilene (Christian, Tony Washington), he has everything you can want. Love his feet. He’s got some issues but for my money he’s better than that Bruce Campbell kid.

    JR: What about the guys at the top that I find overrated? Bryan Bulaga, Trent Williams, even Russell Okung to some extent.

    Scout: Well Jeff, I think you’re wrong about Okung there. He’s a top-five pick and he belongs there. That kid is mentally tough and I think that’s a factor that not enough people consider for tackles. You have to be mentally tough to accept getting beat, because everyone gets beat. That was what was wrong with Tony Ugoh. He couldn’t get past his own mistakes. Look at Jacksonville last year. The Monroe kid (Eugene Monroe) they took first has the same problem and we knew it. The other guy they took later (Eben Britton) is a better player and will be a real good one for a long time because he understands how to handle getting beat. Okung is like that, and he ain’t gonna get beat too much either.

    ...I do think people overrate Williams but that doesn’t mean I think the kid can’t play. We can start him next year on the right (right tackle) and not worry. He’s a kid you’re going to have to keep pushing though, if that’s what you mean. And I’ll tell you this about Bulaga--he’s got that mental toughness too. That kid competes. I think he might be a right-sider in the long run but he’ll be fine. I think he’s like Chris Samuels, one of those guys that isn’t in the Pro Bowl every year but you never have to worry about him either. You can win a lot with guys like that.

    JR: Getting back to the mental toughness concept. What you said there reminds me of down in Mobile (Senior Bowl week) where we stood with (the GM of his team) and watched Vlad Ducasse beg the coaches to move back inside after a couple of bad plays at tackle. Is that more of what you’re talking about?

    Scout: You got it. I know we said right then there ain’t no way he’s ever gonna make it. He’s afraid of getting beat and looking bad. That’s the risk you run with the smaller college guys and the kids that everyone calls “projects” (yes, he made the air quotes!). There is a hell of a lot of pressure on those kids to try and hit home runs on every pitch and never look bad. Especially early on. Some of the kids can handle it, some can’t. He can’t, and that ain’t gonna change. Move him to guard, whatever...that’s (how they handle it) hard to see from those kids that come from small schools or kids like him that haven’t played very long.

    JR: Same thing with Jason Pierre Paul, right?

    Scout: I don’t know him very well. Then again I don’t know how anyone could with how little he played. That kid has what, six starts in college? I’d hate to be the guy responsible for drafting him in the first round, but I’ll bet you someone does. Won’t be us, I can tell you that much.

    JR: Tell me why Jermaine Gresham is viewed so highly. I see a player that missed a season to a bad knee injury, runs slower than half the tackles in this draft, and can’t block a lick.

    Scout: You know what, we’ve had that exact conversation a couple of times in working out our (draft) board. There are people in our front office who feel the same way you do, and we will not pick him above the 3rd round because of that. But that kid does have his defenders. I think you understate his speed. He’s not fast but he plays faster than he runs. I love how he uses his body to create a target, and if you throw the ball near him he’s gonna catch it. I’ll give you this though--he ain’t no blocker, that’s for sure. When you see a kid his size you think he should be able to line up tight and maul, but he can’t do that at all.

    JR: Give me a couple of players that most people like me believe are first round picks that you think will slide.

    Scout: Brian Price, the fat kid from UCLA. I’ll tell you what, Terrence Cody is in a lot better shape than that kid and he’s (Cody) comfortable with his size. Price will flash you the ability to get into the backfield, but watch him against good teams and he didn’t do sh**. I know a lot of people that think he’s going to be a big bust. Enough people that I think he’ll get humbled a little come draft day.

    JR: What about Taylor Mays?

    Scout: You want to talk about physical freaks, that’s your guy right there. There’s too much to like for him to fall, right or wrong. It won’t be us but someone will get him in the first (round).

    JR: I’ll give you a few names and you tell me where you think they will be drafted...

    JR: Jimmy Clausen?

    Scout: Top 10, no doubt in my mind

    JR: Tim Tebow?

    Scout: (laughs) no later than #33 (overall)

    JR: Colt McCoy?

    Scout: I bet someone goes up and gets him in the 20s (overall). Could be us, you never know (laughs with a very wry smile)

    JR: Corey Wootton?

    Scout: First few picks of the second round

    JR: Jason Worilds?

    Scout: Middle of the 2nd, maybe higher

    JR: Myron Rolle?

    Scout: Good question. 4th round probably

    JR: And your prediction for Mr. Irrelevant?

    Scout: Wow, how about...hmmm...who has the pick?

    JR: Detroit does. The reason I ask is that I’m in a pool where if we pick it correctly we get free dinner in Mobile next winter.

    Scout: Alright then, how about Antonio Brown, the wideout from Central Michigan.

    JR: Thanks!
     
  14. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    And you need to understand that NT is the real key to the 3-4 defense.....Try to name one 3-4 DE in the entire NFL that is considered a game changing franchise caliber player....YOU CAN'T.


    I'll give you an example....Glenn Dorsey was a GREAT college player in 4-3 DT right??? Well what has he done for the Chiefs since switching to the 3-4, and moving him to DE??? Nothing, in fact they've tried to trade him. Like Dorsey, most scouts are skeptical that Price can make the switch too 3-4 DE. Just because a guy can dominate at 4-3 DT doesn't mean he can make the switch.
     
  15. LV Bolt Fan

    LV Bolt Fan Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to know what you're "sniffing" by "thinking" that Pitt.,Balt.& SF. are in need of a NT? I'd even throw in the Jests, ( Yes, I know about Kris Jenkins injury)

    :icon_shrug:
     
  16. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I don't care about any of that and I didn't read it. I have 4 draft sites projecting Troup to be a late 2nd-early 3rd round pick. And I have multiple examples of where scouts have raved about his potential, work ethic, strength, and talent.

    I also know that half the teams in the NFL now play the 3-4 defense and NT's are at a premium.

    He will not fall to 91, I guarantee it.
     
  17. Chargerfn909

    Chargerfn909 High and tight kid, high and tight!

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    Dorsey was a god damn bust. Get over it. Price will not be.


    AJ isn't going to draft Cody and Williams will be gone. Troup will be a much better pro than Cam Thomas. I do not get what you are trying to say here bud. You said earlier Cody was removed from your boards, you have to KNOW Dan will be gone. A dominant 5T helps out tremendously, look when Igor and Castillo were playing at a high level.

    Why people try to compare Price and Dorsey is beyond me. Price is MUCH faster and MUCH more disruptive that Glenn ever was.
     
  18. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Well first of all that piece had nothing to do with Troup :lol:

    And i have seen the projections and a site i really like has him as a 2nd. I just think there are a ton of good players in this draft and they all cant be projected in the 2nd. Some guys will fall and i think he is one of them but i could be wrong. Whether we get him or not i really dont care. If we dont, fine, if we do....fine. Either way he dont light a fire for me but the reads are good on him so if AJ picks him, ill trust he is good.
     
  19. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Id tend to agree but that has been said about many and there is no guarantee.
     
  20. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Ok you and me are not communicating correctly or something, so let me sum up.


    1. I never suggested for one damn second that Dan Williams would be available to us.

    2. I know that Troup is a better player than Cam Thomas....Which is why I have us taking Troup at 40.

    3. When Igor and Castillo were good....WAS WHEN JAMAL WAS HEALTHY AND IN HIS PRIME! demanding all the attention.

    4. You guaranteeing Price will be a homerun as a 3-4 DE is a little childish and ignorant. There is no such thing as a sure thing to begin with, espescially when a player has to change positions.


    Lastly if anyone else agreed with your bonerific view of Brian Price, why isn't he up there with Suh and McCoy right now? How would he even have a chance to fall to us?:icon_shrug:
     
  21. szarmes

    szarmes I am the Walrus

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    Guys chill... 4 days and we will all be proven wrong anyway :lol:
     
  22. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Mathews won't be there in the 2nd, and what I said was based on his mock which had us taking a DE in the 1st. So I wouldn't take another in the 2nd, so that takes Alualu off my list. As for Washington, if he can play ILB, then I would be cool with that
     
  23. Chargerfn909

    Chargerfn909 High and tight kid, high and tight!

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    Save it.

    :lol: Wow. McCoy and Suh are in a league of their own my friend. Nobody can really be compared to them, they are probably the 2 best football players to come out of the draft in YEARS. With that being said I do think Price has the same characteristics as the two of them. -- This is all opinions man, I am not GUARANTEEING anything. I am going off what film, and my gut instinct tells me and that is that Price will be a damn good pro. You do not have to agree, not at all but save the personal jabs and insults.
     
  24. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Your quote......"Dorsey was a god damn bust. Get over it. Price will not be." :icon_shrug:


    I don't doubt Price will be a good player (in a 4-3). I just think it would be complete and utter nonsense to pass on a RB or NT @ 28 to draft a player who doesn't ideally fit our scheme, and plays a position we already have depth at. And if it does happen I think you'll soon start hearing how Rivera is phasing us slowly into a 4-3 defense....which may not be a bad idea while everyone else is going 3-4.
     
  25. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Quantity of bodies doesn't equal quality. We have quantity, we don't have quality.

    DE wouldn't be #1 on my priority list, but if no RB or NT is available that is worthy of the pick (That includes Cody who isn't worthy of a top 64 pick), I wouldn't reach to one just to fill a need. I would take the best player available that fills another need.

    If in the 1st 3 picks, we can get a DE, NT, and RB that all contribute right away, it will be a successful draft
     
  26. Chargerfn909

    Chargerfn909 High and tight kid, high and tight!

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    That's not a 100% guarantee, that's simply my opinion man.

    Also, you have to realize this isn't necesarrily what I WOULD do. AJ has a way of drafting and this is how I came up with my mock. Honestly, whens the last time AJ drafted the guys EVERY expert had in their mocks, I.E. Cody/Mathews?
     
  27. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Of the 9 DE's on the roster maybe 3 are worthless. Martin has still got serious upside, Castillo isn't a bad player, Ngwabuo was breaking out last year, Cesaire and Scott are solid veterans.

    NT is the cornerstone of the 3-4 defense, we've been lobbying for a successor to Jamal for years before now. And when we get a NT in place I think the complaining about our D-line will evaporate completely.
     
  28. Chargerfn909

    Chargerfn909 High and tight kid, high and tight!

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    OG and Scott are gonna play NT. Cesaire isn't anything to brag about. The one you are forgetting is Travis Johnson, he played pretty damn stellar all year @ DE. I think it's beyond safe to say we could use a dominant DE. Glastillo & TJ get hurt often, you can almost bank on the fact that one, if not both of them will get hurt and miss a game or games this season.

    People are talking about us taking a CB @ 28, to me that doesn't make half as much sense at a DE. CB we have Jammer, Cason, Vasher, and Brandon Hughes + Strickland to play nickel. The depth is there as well as talent. I have a good feeling about Cason this year, it took Jammer a few years to get going to watch for Cason to kick it up a notch in 2010.
     
  29. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    I didn't say they are worthless, I said they are all backups. The Vets we have are solid backups, and the kids still need a year or 2 to even have an idea of what they will be capable of doing. So we are lucky if one of our DE's is truly starter caliber
     
  30. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    You don't know that, and don't pretend you do.:lol:

    To begin with they are way undersized for NT. And last year they only played that position because we had nobody else with Jamal and Bingham on IR. If anyone on our roster has a potetial to play NT its Antonio Garay, who is apparently up to 320lbs and is in favor with the coaches.
     

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