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A.J. Smith calls bluffs of Marcus McNeill, Vincent Jackson

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by CoronaDoug, Jun 10, 2010.

  1. DenverBolt67
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    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    What are you talking about? These players are critical, but without a Long term deal this year, they will both be on a different team in 2012 (assuming a lockout in 2011). And since he has refused to even have a conversation about an extension, they have no reason to give a discount to a team they feel hasn't treated them right, and if they felt they were being treated right, they wouldn't be holding out
  2. DenverBolt67
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    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    BS. The teams can do what ever they want. The Dolphins made Marshall the highest paid WR of all time. The Broncos are in serious talks with Elvis Dumervil. The excuse of not knowing about the future is complete BS and is a way for owners to pad their pockets in a year where they have no salary floor
  3. DenverBolt67
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    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    No, because letting those players just walk would have cost them when the team sucks and they don't sell out like in the late 90's and early 2000's when the stadium was not selling out. $3 mil is a cheap investment to keep a stadium filled.

    Look at the big picture dude
  4. bigmike.x.09
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    bigmike.x.09 Well-Known Member

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    what have we done with them? you cant say that we are incapable of winning without them cuz outside of the regular season what have they done?
  5. DenverBolt67
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    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    in this division, we could win without Rivers. Doesn't we are going to do anything more than win the division.
  6. bigmike.x.09
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    bigmike.x.09 Well-Known Member

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    which brings me back to my original point, you build a franchise around a guy like rivers, not jackson or mcneill. i guarantee you if we had someone else that wasnt rivers we wouldnt be what we are now.
  7. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    And them not playing because they're sitting out due to a lack of negotiations is different, how?

    You're contradicting yourself here. If they were of the mindset that they need these two playing to bring in the $$$ they would have given in to their demands, or at least not played hardball.
  8. DenverBolt67
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    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    And my point is, without protection and weapons, a guy like Rivers will struggle. You can have the best QB in the history of the game, but without the right team around him, he will go a career without winning (Dan Marino)
  9. DenverBolt67
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    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    How am I contradicting myself? The guys want a long term deal, and with the team being unwilling to even talk to them, I don't blame them for being pissed.

    No one said they have to get what they are asking for, just that the team should be willing to negotiate. The team wants one thing, the player wants something else. The point in negotiating is to find something in the middle that both can agree on. Without the team being willing to talk, you can't have negotiations.

    That is what is going on with Elvis Dumervil. He wants a long term deal, and only signed his tender because he is actively in discussions with the Donkeys for a new contract
  10. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    Simple.

    First you tell me that they care most about saving money despite the fact that both were offered significant raises, then you tell me that they were offered these significant raises because letting them walk would have been detrimental to income due to their not playing's impact on the W/L columns. This, despite the fact that their actions (according to your claims) lead to them not playing anyways.

    So, which is it? Do they not want to pay them or do they feel their presence on the field is needed?

    Or is it simply that AJ Smith felt they were offered a big enough raise that negotiation would have been a waste of everyone's time?

    And that's the exact reason they would have gone through the facade of negotiating despite having no intent of giving in if, as you claim, they cared too much about lining Alex and Dean's pockets but didn't want to risk taking the attendance hit that comes from them not playing.

    Think about it. You're claiming that they don't want to pay anybody because they're cheapwads, but they also don't want to just let them walk (by not offering them significant raises via the tenders) so why would they blatantly alienate them by telling them they won't even talk to them?

    If their only intent was to try and persuade them to play but not sign them long term they would have gone through the facade to try and appease them. Those are the actions of a tightwad company that doesn't want to pay its employees but still wants their services due to the income they might be able to bring.

    Look, I've never said I've agreed with AJ's tactics anywhere in this thread.

    I've only repeatedly argued against your claim that the sole intent behind his actions is because they care more about saving money than they do about focusing on the overall team makeup.
  11. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan
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    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    !^^^^^THIS^^^^^!
  12. DenverBolt67
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    There is a very good reason nearly every team has lowered their overall payroll, and why the NFLPA is getting close to filing a complaint for collusion. The Chargers are not doing anything different that most other team, only 3-4 teams are actually willing to work on keeping their top players, but the Chargers are in a different position than most teams since they have more RFA's than anyone else.

    I have no idea what MM and VJ want, and neither do the Chargers since they refuse to talk, but it is bush league for the Chargers to refuse to even negotiate and see if an agreement can be reached. If the team thinks these guys are going to take a discount to come back after they hit the open market like Dielman did, then the team needs to get back to reality. These guys wouldn't be holding out if they felt like they were being treated fairly
  13. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    That "very good reason" could be a very good coincidence that coincides with reluctance to sign long term deals not knowing what the CBA is going to look like.

    Do you think it's a coincidence that all 32 teams just arbitrarily decided to stop signing long term deals at the same time the CBA was up in the air?

    Again, the PA is going to call foul crying collusion any time salaries drop regardless of the reasons.

    How many times do I have to point out to you that you don't need to negotiate to know someone's demands? That negotiation comes after the demands are known to try and work out a compromise?

    I don't think they were expecting them to come back at a discount.

    I think they were expecting to work out a reasonable deal once they know what the CBA looks like and, therefore, what kind of effect the deal would have on the cap.
  14. DenverBolt67
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    They will both be free agents able to go anywhere they want. There is no way the will come back here after holding out nearly all year. They will sign a big money contract somewhere else, while AJ will continue paying big month to guys like Castillo who don't deserve half of what he is making.

    I also think it is more than a coincides that nearly all teams are dropping payroll once they are not required to spend a certain amount. People all talked about no salary cap, well that also means no salary floor.
  15. HEXEDBOLT
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    HEXEDBOLT Well-Known Member

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    The Chargers made an offer, the player's rejected it. Game over, time to move on.
  16. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    Here you go contradicting yourself again.

    If AJ and the Chargers were the tightwads you keep claiming they are they wouldn't pay anybody, not even Luis Castillo.



    You're right, it isn't a coincidence.

    It's happening because teams are reluctant to sign long term contracts not knowing what effect it could have on their financial make-up with the CBA up in the air.

    Businesses tend to not want to carelessly throw money into situations as murky as the NFL currently is due to a lack of a new CBA.

    But keep pretending it's a huge conspiracy that owners all get together in their secret room to plan ways to enslave the poor millionaires that they employ.
  17. Holy_Bolt
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    Holy_Bolt Well-Known Member

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    I agree...the chargers need to move on with out VJ and Marcus.
  18. LV Bolt Fan
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    LV Bolt Fan Well-Known Member

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    Makes me glad that AJ Smith is the Chargers GM. :yes:

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