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Acee: Norv? A.J.? Philip? O-line deserves plenty of blame

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by CoronaDoug, Nov 15, 2012.

  1. CoronaDoug

    CoronaDoug Well-Known Member

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    You can say you miss Marty Schottenheimer and want Jon Gruden.

    Maybe you should miss Kris Dielman and want wholesale changes on the offensive line even more.

    Let’s take a few minutes off from the Norval bashing and look deeper at the reasons for the Chargers’ failure.

    It’s safe to say Dean Spanos, whose opinion is the only one that matters, still feels much as he did after last season — that it’s part personnel (meaning Smith, the general manager) and part coaching.That’s what the team’s brass is doing, because unlike much of the rest of the American football speaking world, the guy who owns the Chargers has not made up his mind how much of the blame falls on Norv Turner and how much falls on A.J. Smith and who is getting canned.


    I don’t expect a decision soon on how much of either is responsible or what to do about it.

    That last sentence caused a good number of people — those interested only in Turner and/or Smith being terminated forthwith — to stop reading. But there has to be more to this problem and its solution.

    In no way are the six guys who have played the snaps on the offensive line the Chargers’ only problem, but they’re near the top of the list.

    You’ve likely made up your mind about Turner and what an awful coach he is, deciding the only thing he could motivate another human to do is fall asleep. So this isn’t an attempt to deflect blame.

    And, hey, Philip Rivers is the one who got spooked by the Buccaneers showing a blitz that never came, and it was he who after rolling right while running away from that phantom rush threw the ball directly to Bucs’ cornerback Leonard Johnson.

    Rivers has to stop being so error prone.

    But the man has needed way too much bleach to clean the grass stains off his uniform this season.

    This offensive line might not be made of paper, but it is no better than cellophane. That is entirely unacceptable considering the investment it is protecting — a QB pulling down an average of $15.3 million who everyone in the league knows is the vane by which the Chargers’ fortune blows.

    The Chargers are one of just four teams to rank in the top 10 in both sacks and quarterback hurries allowed. The other three teams who are allowing their QB to be pulverized have sub-.500 records too.

    Among tackles on either side who have played at least 25 percent of their team’s snaps, Pro Football Focus ranks the Chargers’ two left tackles among the league’s 11 worst this season in pass blocking efficiency.

    Mike Harris, in fact, is ranked last among the 69 tackles PFF grades. Gaither ranks 59th. Right tackle Jeromey Clary is the star of the group, at 47th.

    Guards don’t deal with as much space or speed as tackles, but the Chargers’ two inside guys are stellar when put up against their tackle teammates. Right guard Louis Vasquez ranks 22nd among all guards who have played at least 50 percent of their team’s snaps. Left guard Tyronne Green ranks 33rd.

    Green has allowed 14 quarterback pressures in 327 snaps. Dielman played 238 snaps before his season (and career) was ended in 2011. He allowed five pressures.

    Nick Hardwick — for so long the man, the captain — ranks as the NFL’s 26th-best center.

    The left side of the line retiring suddenly is no one’s fault. Dielman and Marcus McNeill had been to six Pro Bowls between them and would be still playing if not for wise choices to preserve their brain and neck, respectively.

    Defending the signing of left tackle Jared Gaither is easily done. Gaither played superbly, even perfectly, if there could be such a thing in football, for the five games he was a Charger in ’11. He was by far the top free agent at the position. He had to be signed.

    But the results of the line as a whole can’t be argued.

    As far as coaching, neither Turner nor offensive line guru Hal Hunter and his assistant Mike Sullivan forgot how to teach pass blocking.

    I doubt Turner is here in 2013. If Spanos decides the offensive line (not to mention Robert Meachem and Eddie Royal) are unforgivable gaffes, Smith will be gone, too.

    But whoever is running things better figure out what to do with at least three of the spots on the line, or they won’t be here long either.
    http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/nov/14/acee-norv-j-philip-o-line-deserves-plenty-blame-to/
     
  2. CoronaDoug

    CoronaDoug Well-Known Member

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    The O-line is crap but they can't take the blame for many of Rivers INT's.
     
  3. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    How bout all the sacks and hits the last 2 seasons. Rivers is ****** in the head, but part of the reason for that is his OL has hung him out to dry.
     
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  4. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    You're more intelligent than a comment like this. QBs have a clock in their heads, and know how much time they have to get the ball out. When the clock gets messed up, they throw picks to defenders because they don't see them, or don't expect them to be there. The line as a unit is as much a part of each of Rivers' interceptions as Rivers himself is.
     
  5. CoronaDoug

    CoronaDoug Well-Known Member

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    I am not saying that the line is innocent here. Rivers has thrown some awful picks starting from last season. Remember when everyone was speculating that he was injured? Many of these were blatant mistakes on his part and had nothing to do with protection.
     
  6. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    The article even mentions something of Rivers kept running from a phantom, thinking someone was going to hit him when there wasn't really anyone around. That is on the Line, Rivers is spending more time worried about getting hit again than he should be instead of trying to make a play down the field.

    As far as AJ's bargain bin FA's, to me its looking like a hole we're in for the foreseeable future. I can't think of a single one that was brought in that made an immediate impact. I'm not asking for the moon from these guys but I'm also expecting a little more than what I've seen
     
  7. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    And what was it that started happening last season after week 5? That's right, the line turned to garbage as everyone got injured and we started our epic 6-game losing streak.

    Rivers running when no one's there is about him anticipating defenders coming. The defense only has to blitz a few times and Rivers starts acting as though the defense is blitzing on every play, because he's always feeling pressure now, even if the line manages to occasionally pick it up or it isn't there. I know that people mention "just take the sack" as what his new mantra should be, but taking sack after sack after sack isn't a strategy for success (or longevity) either.
     
  8. MadMike

    MadMike Well-Known Member

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    Been looking at the int's since last season. He's thrown 32 since last season. At least to my eyes, this is how they break down:

    8 straight up boneheaded decisions by Rivers, threw into coverage, threw directly at a defender, etc...
    14 directly related to the O-Line failing and Rivers being hit or molested while throwing
    5 very catchable balls that bounced off receivers hands
    5 where receiver ran the wrong route based on coverage

    Now the first 8 are all on Rivers and there is no excuse for them. He needs to clean these up immediatelly, and if he throws more I support benching him for a quarter or a game to show him no one is untouchable. The 14 o-line caused ones are terrible as well. There is no way really to get this number to 0, pressures will happen, defenses are paid to play too, but 14 times in 1 1/2 years is way too much. Our line is getting killed. The 5 tip drill picks happen, cant really argue too much, receivers need to catch the ball, but 5 in 2 years isnt ungodly. Finally, the 5 route issues one need to be corrected. A few of these I saw were so blatant. When you have over under coverage on you, you take the short route option and break off, when the blitz is coming at your QB, you break off, when your running deep with Safety to the inside you trail your route to the line not inside. Receivers got to fix this. Clean it up and its 10 or 12 picks in 2 years which I think would be acceptable to all of us.
     
  9. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    I think both sides are equal on this. Rivers is forcing things because he is getting way too much pressure. If we had a better line, Rivers could get back into a comfort zone. I like Rivers, its just right now I am yelling at him every time he throws a pick. It does amaze me, everytime I watch another team, thier quarterback seems to have all the time in the world when he is in the pocket. With the Chargers its only two or three seconds then Rivers has to bail out of there.
     
  10. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    When I was watching the Saints/Falcons game and the announcers were talking about pressure, I couldn't help but think, "what pressure? seriously?"

    it's embarrassing.
     
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  11. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    I still say we go CB in the first but if we dont grab at least 2 linemen in rounds 2-4 I say we grab our pitchforks and storm the castle
     
  12. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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  13. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    This might be a better passrusher than CB draft, depending on where we're picking.
     
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  14. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    I agree, depending on what happens with draft stock ups and downs and where we're picking, If Milliner or Rhodes are available I'd like to grab one of them, other wise BPA. As long as we get CB, OT, OT/OG, OLB (in no particular order)in the first 4 rounds I'll be happy.
     
  15. CoronaDoug

    CoronaDoug Well-Known Member

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    Sorry the O-line can not be blamed for his latest.
     
  16. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    So the O-line, which has yet to pass-block in this game, can not be blamed for Rivers making a bad pass? Dude, these plays don't happen in a vacuum.
     
  17. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    The O-line sucks?.......... who knew??? :confused:
     

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