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AJ is hurting this franchise. No more denying!

Discussion in 'Smack Talk' started by BOLTS4LIFE, Oct 11, 2009.

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  1. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    96. Which means no McCardell, Floyd, Chambers, or Naanee.
    Again, Jackson was in his rookie year and Parker was nothing special. Gates is a TE. Though he is a great receiver, it's not good to have your TE be you goto guy.

    As for Marty's teams... he was giving a 5-11 team (followed by a 1-15 season) in 2002. Before 2004, how long had it been since we had a playoff appearance (much rather a winning season)?
    As for the decision after the 2006 season (in mid April)... Can you say "Knee Jerk Reaction?" AJ is a loose cannon.
     
  2. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    Try this... Nothing last forever and AJ is done!
     
  3. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    OK, build and present your case. Please weigh the positives against the negatives and present it. Consider also who should replace AJ.
     
  4. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    I don't think there's a better person to find talent out there then AJ Smith. I think he's crafted a roster along the same lines as the Colts and the Patriots and even the Steelers - home grown with very few FA acquisitions. And those acquisitions turned us from a 4-12 joke in 04 to being one of hte best teams in the league for the remainder of the decade.

    Now I agree he's drafted poorly last few years (though I say he's done better this year - like Vasquez, English, have hopes for Ellison and Martin) and he should go out and acquire more FAs and not just ignore them. He also has a growing ego that's come out in negative ways (I say again that I think Norv got the job based on HEAVY recommendations from AJ Smith, he sure as hell isn't better then Singletary and Ryan), and that has to be reigned in by the owners and fast.

    BUt I think few GMs have taken teams from joke to respectability as effectively as AJ Smith and certainly there aren't that many of them in Charger history. I just feel like in all the bashing few remember just what he has done for this organization and its fans.
     
  5. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    Positives:
    We all know what happened in the 2005 Draft.
    Getting LT locked in.
    Getting Rivers locked in.

    Negatives:
    Sammy Davis
    Cromarti (possibly the biggest fluke in NFL history)
    Giving up a #2 draft pick for a guy that's never on the field
    Calling out Marty to the media and making it national.
    Calling out LT to the media and making it national.
    Mocking LT and making it national.
    Calling out the entire team and name calling them in the national media.
    Constantly pushing Spanos to fire Marty.
    Choosing the worst HC in NFL history as replacement. (I know you'll tell me he's the greatest but what did he do in Washington? As I keep saying "go to Redskins forums and ask they how great Norv is." Oakland may have sucked but it wasn't like the play calling was great. So as you've convinced yourself that NO other coach could take us further than he did... what has he done as HC?)
    Hiring a horrible DC because they're buttys.
    Currently crushing our best chances ever of winning a Super Bowl.
    Currently dismantling the best era we'll EVER see!!!


    BTW... Cason and English were good draft picks but it's not like another GM in his position couldn't have done it.
     
  6. CasualKnowledge

    CasualKnowledge BoltTalker

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    Are you able to ever present a case without being completely subjective? Your opinions are not always correct. Do you have any kind of filter that allows you to be unbiased?
     
  7. CasualKnowledge

    CasualKnowledge BoltTalker

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    How exactly is Norv the worst coach in history? Leave out your opinions, state only facts.
     
  8. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Ahhh... Well when you put it like that...


    I see no reason to agree with your particular take on our GM at this time.
     
  9. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    EXACTLY!!!
    He needs less power and needs to stop being a media whore!
     
  10. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    AJ Smith Positives
    2004 Draft trade
    Shawne Merriman
    Darren Sproles
    Michael Turner
    Shane Olivea
    Antonio Gates
    Kris Dielman
    Stephen Cooper
    Nick Hardwick
    Nate Kaeding
    Shaun Phillips
    Antonie Cason
    Marcus McNeil
    Mike Scifres

    AJ Smith Negatives
    Buster Davis
    Bwahoh Jue
    Marlon Mcree
    Luis Castillo
    Anthony Waters
    Unwillingness to grab FAs
    Ted Cottrell
    Sammy Davis/2003 Draft
    Igor Olshansky
     
  11. CasualKnowledge

    CasualKnowledge BoltTalker

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    Igor dropped off last year and isn't starting in Dallas. Mcree became overpaid by jacksonville and has disappointed ever since. I don't know what to compare it to, but they have made FA agent moves with Chambers, Burnett, Bennett.
     
  12. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    Washington
    49-59-1 Regular Season
    1-1 Post Season

    Oakland
    9-23 Regular Season

    Are those bragging numbers? I'll give him some slack that Oakland was a lousy team but it's not like the play calling was great.

    Washington, he had plenty to work with. Maybe not Super Bowl material but enough to advance in the playoffs. He didn't even finish his last season. His defenders big statement is "he had a bunch of old timers."
    Well I say "so what? Oakland had a bunch of old timers, yet they went to the AFC Championship one season and the Super Bowl the next season. What's their excuse?"

    Oh... if you want to start throwing people into this comparison such as Gilbride, Riley, or whoever else... I'm talking about coaches with at least 5 seasons experience and/or have been HC with other teams.

    And before you wave your AFC Championship Attendee flag... you're not going to convince me that only Norv could take a 14-2 team that distance!
     
  13. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Igor and Luis are not negatives. Luis is playing well, one of the few on the D that is. A 3-4 DE is not a sack machine, they are road blockers.

    If you watch the games you will see Luis all over the field making tackles, as well as occupying offensive linemen. That is his job. He is doing it well, there are a lot of teams that would snatch him up in a heart beat.

    Igor was a second round pick in 04 that started for us five years. With Luis and Igor on the line the Chargers held teams to a league low 83 yards per game in 05. That is a negative in your book? How exactly is that a negative?

    What are you expecting from 3-4 defensive ends? In the more traditional and popular 4-3 your ends are best suited for lining up in space and rushing the passer on outside the edge of the tackle. Those players usually weight between 260 and 275 pounds. The are athletic and agile and their strength is getting up field with quickness and lean, more an English or Philips build. The ideal 4-3 end also possesses an ability to lean and turn the corner and squeeze the pocket.

    On the other hand a 3-4 defensive end is more like a defensive tackle. He must be strong at the point of attack and is aligned in most cases head up on an offensive tackle and must control runs gaps first and foremost. Size and strength become more of a factor because he plays in confines of line play and seldom is in space using athletic ability. Ideally this guy should weigh 275-290 pounds and be able to beat double teams by getting a push. It's a more physical task then that of a 4-3 end.


    So I detract two of your negatives, even in not doing so the positives you listed out number the negatives.
     
  14. CasualKnowledge

    CasualKnowledge BoltTalker

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    My response is the same that just a couple of pages back, but sure I'll post it again.

    I've seen it mroe than a couple of times in this thread and others, so I didn't feel like I needed to quote anyone. How exactly did AJ hire a loser in Norv? Please explain this to me. Was it because Norv had some losing seasons in Washington and Oakland? News flash guys; Belichick had one winning season out of 5 in cleveland before NE hired him, Tom Coughlin was on a 3 year losing streak before he went to NY, Tony Dungy had a label of not being able to win big games before he went to IND. Coaches that win aren't exactly looking for jobs all that often. Or is it because people on this board are better evaluators of talent than someone who spent their entire life involved in football and 30+ years in the NFL?
     
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  15. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    I agree Luis is improving but based on his injury history and inability to perform at a high level on the field I don't see him as such an immediate set positive. And Igor was decent for a little bit and then fell off the radar in 08. So I probably could have left them off (which I did with players like Weddle and the like as players that are uncertain good or bad) but even with the two 'semi negatives' we've had mostly positive results.

    And I forgot VJ in hte positive
     
  16. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    There's more on postitives as well as negatives. Those are just the key ones.

    Yes, I know you think Norv is the greatest and that there is no possible way any other HC could have brought this team the same distance or higher but the vast majority of the NFL would disagree... including the players. Just ask Osgood!
     
  17. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    You don't know anything. You assume and express angst that people do not agree with you, or run around screaming that Norv is the anti-Christ.

    Please provide the quote you are referring to with Osgood.
     
  18. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    News Flash CK!!!

    Tom Coughlin in Jacksonville
    68-60 Regular Season
    4-4 Posts season
    2 AFCC Attendances
    He was handed an expansion team in Jacksonville.
    He was handed a 4-12 team in New York.


    Tony Dungy In Tampa Bay
    54-42 Regular Season
    2-4 Post Season
    1 NFCC Attendance
    He was handed a 7-9 team in Tampa Bay.
    He was handed a 6-10 team in Indianapolis.

    Bill Belichick in Cleveland
    36-44 Regular Season
    1-1 Post Season
    Not exactly impressive BUT he was also handed a 3-13 team!!!
    He was handed an 8-8 team in New England.



    Just in case you already forgot...
    Norv Turner in Washington
    49-59-1 Regular Season
    1-1 Post Season
    He was handed a 4-12 team in Washington BUT keep in mind... the Skins had won the Super Bowl the season before.
    He was handed a 14-2 team in San Diego.

    You really should research before you post, because comparing these guys to Norv is completely invalid. They had success before going to another team and winning the Super Bowl!!!
    Care to deny?
     
  19. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    And you go around screaming that Norv is our Messiah.


    "Also, Osgood was critical of coach Norv Turner last season. Still, if San Diego trades Osgood, it will have to fill the void he would leave on special teams."
    http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/tag/_/name/kassim-osgood

    The page on what he said is no longer active but Osgood was asked if Norv was a good head coach. His reply was "Norv Turner is a good offensive coordinator" and he was asked again, he replied with the same answer.
    He also said something about Norv not getting this team to the fullest potential.

    This was on 5PM news w/ Kyle Kraska. People posted about it in here too. So don't act like you don't know.
     
  20. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I fail to see how that 'quote' supports your contention. Yeah Osgood was disgruntled. So what? He has since changed his tune, saying he would do what ever his coaches asked him to.
     
  21. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    He was saying what everybody else would like to but can't... for multiple reasons!

    And you still go around screaming that Norv is our Messiah.
     
  22. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    You make assumptions you know why Osgood says something. Of course your assumptions are biased.

    Since you wish to say that I am calling Norv the messiah, please provide a quote of me doing so.
     
  23. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    I have a hard time believing that Osgood is the one and only player on the team that feels that way.

    Provide a quote of me calling Norv the Anti-Christ.
     
  24. CasualKnowledge

    CasualKnowledge BoltTalker

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    I'm not going to deny their records, but finally you are using some objective facts. And I'm not trying to compare Norv to coaches who have had SB success. I'm comparing offseason staff moves. AJ didn't have any Jeff Fishers or Bill cowhers to pick from, otherwise the choice would have been obvious. He had some up and coming former coordinators, and someone who had coaching experience. Norv was handed a team that had a succesful season but couldn't win a postseason game, and subsequently had a succesful season by going 11-5 and getting to the AFC championship game. Are you denying that?
     
  25. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    but the problem with all of this is that you are skewing the data. You only want to post what you want too.

    Marty was let go because of his post season record.

    Who has the better post season record, Marty or Norv?
     
  26. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    Liar.


    As for everything else... as I've said several times "firing Marty in mid April and picking up Norv was premature ejaculation."

    I was disappointed about the 2004 playoff loss but that was a first time playoff attendance for about 99% of our team. Not to mention our first time in the playoffs (or a winning record) in almost a decade. We were still young and developing.

    2006 was even a bigger disappointment but again, we were still young and developing and we went against a team that has been there and won it many times.
    Marty was in the last season of his contract. They should have let him finish, and then make a decision at the end of 2007. Firing your coach in mid April is stupid. Care to deny?

    So Norv got us to the AFCC. Problem... you don't get a title for that!!!
    If he gets us a Super Bowl, then we'll talk!
     
  27. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    :hilarious: :hilarious: :hilarious: :hilarious:

    Wait... :hilarious: :hilarious:

    Norv was 1-1 before coming here. So why was he hired? :hilarious:


    BTW... since some of you are so estatic over making it to the AFCC... Marty's been there 3 times. So waht does that say about praising Norv for getting us to the AFCC?
     
  28. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know I am not on the Hiring committee, so then why was Marty brought in?
     
  29. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    How many times did a Marty led team finish with the #1 seed, and then go right out and lose the first round they played in?


    More then Norv?
     
  30. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    That's easy!!!

    After stupid, failed experiments like Gilbride and Riley... we needed a guy with experience and that can turn a s*it franchise around. HE DID IT!!!

    But since you said we were looking at post season records... what's impressive about 1-1?
     
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