Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan, Jul 17, 2007.
HOLI CRAP WHERE DID YOU FIND THAT
:icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl:
Trotter sez give Vick a chance
If guilty, Vick deserves second chance
By Jim Trotter
August 19, 2007
At this point you would have to be deaf, dumb, blind, naive, ignorant, stupid, foolish, but mostly stubborn, to believe Michael Vick had no involvement in an illegal dogfighting operation.
Of the four men charged in the case, Vick is the only one who has not pleaded guilty. His co-defendants already have placed him in the middle of the action and identified him as the primary money man for the operation. The only way he's going to avoid a prison cell is if the O.J. jury is reconvened in Richmond, Va.
Barring that, the Atlanta Falcons star quarterback is going to do time – first for the government, then for Commissioner Roger Goodell.
With that as a backdrop, people have begun debating whether Vick will be allowed to resume his career once his penance is paid and his suspension is over, provided it's not a lifetime ban. It's a question that has no answer at the moment. There are too many unknowns, too many variables.
An easier question to answer is whether Vick should be allowed to resume his career if he serves his time without incident, expresses remorse and takes steps to educate the public about the heinousness of dogfighting. The answer is an unequivocal yes.
What Vick is accused of doing is repulsive and despicable, and, if true on any level, he deserves the most harsh punishment the legal system has to offer based on the charges. But once he serves his jail time and completes his suspension under the league's tougher personal conduct policy, he should have a chance to resume his career. The reason is precedence:
In 1996, Pittsburgh running back Bam Morris pleaded guilty to marijuana possession in exchange for no prison time and the dropping of a felony cocaine possession charge. He got a second chance when the Baltimore Ravens signed him two months after the Steelers released him.
Morris didn't go straight from there – he spent 89 days in a detention center for violating his parole and twice was suspended by the league for failing a drug test – but the Chicago Bears gave him another second chance when they signed him after he was let go by Baltimore. Kansas City even traded for him in 1998, two years before he pleaded guilty to two federal charges that involved drug trafficking and money laundering.
Baltimore Colts quarterback Art Schlichter was suspended by the NFL for the 1983 season for gambling, which ranks No. 1 on the league's no-no list. But the former Ohio State star was later reinstated and signed by Buffalo. His return didn't last long, as he was banned for life after another gambling incident.
Kansas City wideout Tamarick Vanover spent two months in a federal work camp after pleading guilty to aiding and abetting the sale of a stolen vehicle that crossed state lines, but that didn't end his career. In fact, he got a second chance at a second chance in 2002, when the Chargers signed him to a one-year deal even though he had admitted to an FBI agent two years earlier that he gave a player $40,000 to purchase drugs.
Rams defensive end Leonard Little got a second chance after killing a motorist when he ran a red light and plowed into her car while legally drunk. Six years later, he failed several field sobriety tests and refused to be chemically tested for alcohol after being stopped for speeding. He beat the drunk driving charge in court when his lawyer argued in part that the officer on the scene failed to give Little the proper instructions.
These are just a few examples. Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice in a double-murder case and his career wasn't taken from him. In fact, over time Lewis reclaimed his spot as one of the public faces of the league. By all accounts, he is a changed man for the better from his experience.
Could Vick learn and grow from his mistakes? Only time will tell. But this incident, as heinous as the allegations are, should not cost him his career. Gambling cuts to the core of the sport's integrity, yet Schlichter got a second chance. The illegal sale of drugs remains one of the country's most vexing problems, yet Morris and Vanover got second chances.
Vick deserves the same opportunity, but will he get it? Marty Schottenheimer was the coach involved when Morris and Vanover got second chances, one with Kansas City, the other with San Diego. And he admits that he would have a hard time giving Vick another opportunity.
“I think you have to look at the incidents themselves and my problem with this matter is, we're talking about killing animals that don't have an opportunity to defend themselves,” he said. “They're tied, they're pinned and, if all they're saying is true, they're hung, then they're set on fire. That's murder. I have a real problem with that.
“You can make a case that these animals have less of an opportunity to protect themselves from this action than a human being does. A human being has a chance to reason or at least run away. These animals were in pins; they had no opportunity to defend themselves. To me, I just find that almost as bad as murder. And you committed it if, in fact, you were involved with this.”
Schottenheimer acknowledged it's a complicated matter on certain levels because of the caste and cultural aspects; in some poorer communities, particularly in the South, dog fighting is not viewed in the same way that it is by the larger public.
Will team owners take that reality into consideration when Vick seeks reinstatement – yes, this assumes that he indeed will be suspended – or will they bow to public pressure or their personal feelings about cruelty toward animals? Time will tell, but I keep coming back to the 2004 State of the Union address, in which President Bush, while discussing legislation to help convicted criminals re-enter society, said: “America is the land of the second chance.”
At last check, Vick is still a citizen of this country.
Jim Trotter: (619) 293-1859; firstname.lastname@example.org
I tghink that's Grimm from the mother goose and grimm comic strip.
At least he didn't include Marmaduke. I hate that friggin comic strip.
Crack is .. is ... is bad. :yes: :icon_twisted: :no:
I wonder how many people are doing federal or state time nationwide on dog fighting convictions or other chargers related to dog fighting?
Vick will not admit to killing dogs or gambling on dog fights :icon_huh:
I can't believe the Feds are going along with that :icon_eek: :icon_shrug: :icon_huh:
From ESPN's First Take this morning, Roger Cossack ain't believing it either!!
They're going along with it because he's coughing up names. Bigger names. In order to avoid a RICO charge. :yes:
you know about that RICO ****, doncha' linguini-bolt?
i do think he's the big media fish in that pond though. if he's feed'in them bigger fish, it's from the criminal world.
my stupid *** opinion is that vick's attorney's could'a sliced and diced the evidence and witnesses pretty good. i bet they could at least have made the outcome real interesting and the fed's knew it. the feds wanted jail time, not the book thrown at him. they got the time and didn't want to remove the possibility of vick be able to return to his proffession, i.e. if he admitted to whack'in fido, no more football, anywhere, period.
also, if they put him on the cross, it would be tantamount to stick'in a stick in the racial behive. a long trail would just keep the stick rattle'in around in there longer.
According to ESPN's legal analyst, the judge could easily reject his current plea bargain have Vick redecide what he wants to plea.
I'm not too surprised hearing this.
But of course, you hillbilly WASP! They don't want to bring down the NFL. They want the organized crime M'fers. If they ain't gettin' a cut of the action, you're going down. If some NFLers get caught up in the wash, so be it. But they don't want him to finger his fellow co-workers. They wanna bust up the rings and stop the illegal cash exchanges. Pretty simple. The feds don't like being left out of the payroll.
Vick is innocent. He was FRAMED !!!
This is nothing but a lynch mob. :icon_twisted:
Vick admits dog killing, conspiracy
If he is not being charged by the Feds for the killing and gambling, based on the plea, then that leaves it wide open for the State to drop those charges on his head when the Feds get done.
This is only the beginning....
Tony, this is the filed "Summary of Facts" from Mr. Vick:
On page 9 referring to April, 2007 - "Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the combined efforts of PEACE, PHILLIPS, AND VICK."
If we were at a poker table I'd say "read em and weep".
Hush money. :yes:
Sammy he Bull walked so the Feds could get at Gotti and he was guilty as hell. Vick is a little fish in this game and the Feds want the big ones. Vick better start looking over his shoulder cause it ain't the Feds he has to fear.
Exactly. But they'll give some distance and let the thing breathe a little... then they'll drop the hammer on the big (pardon the pun) dogs and Vick is gonna have to change his name. Maybe he'll just go with Ron Mexico and moved to Guadalajara. :lol:
Reporting on Sirius NFL right now... VICK SUSPENDED INDEFINITELY WITHOUT PAY.
Ouch. Mike better start liquidating REAL quick.
Not like this is a big surprise. . .
He'll never see reinstatement. The Michael Vick era is finished.
Yeah - its all over the news:
NFL Suspends Vick indefinitely - MSNBC
"In disciplining Vick, commissioner Roger Goodell said Vick’s admitted conduct was “not only illegal but also cruel and reprehensible” and regardless whether he personally placed bets, “your actions in funding the betting and your association with illegal gambling both violate the terms of your NFL player contract and expose you to corrupting influences in derogation of one of the most fundamental responsibilities of an NFL player.”"
I never believed this was all over dog fighting, as soon as I seen the crossing state lines and illegal gambling I knew it was on. Whats so funny is Trumpie, thinks they are trying to bring Vick down and he is just a stepping stone. I guess it's just the Italian in me and if I were Vick, I would have gone down with the ship. He's losing it all anyway.
Not like this is a big surprise. . .
Right freaking on Goodell!! :clap:
So long Ron Mexico, you douche bag! :wave: :icon_finger:
Vick is a small fry. They have no idea....
Separate names with a comma.