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Andy Reid

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Bolts4lyfe, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. MadMike
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    No Rex and no Reid. I am a firm believer in the fact that this team needs a strict disciplinarian at coach. These players have been able to coast through camps and games with little to no fear of their coaches or any reprucussions on game time. We need someone who will hold himself and the players accountable for losses and bad play and laziness. No more walking off after a horrible play to the sound of Norv saying "Golly gee guys, you tried really hard, we'll get um next time!". I want some *** chewing when Rivers throws a pass directly into a defenders hands. I want the O-line to be afraid to come back to the sideline after they do their best impression of a turnstyle. I want attitude, I want focus, I want accountability. These guys arent paid to have fun and bullshit on the sidelines, I want heads in the game (including the coaches so he knows who is in, who is out, who is hurt, what time it is). When the O isnt working I want someone on the sideline trying to fix it. When the D is blowing coverages, I want a coach there on the sideline working them through the schemes. We havent had that here in a long time (Bobby Ross would be the last coach we had close to this).
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  2. The LBC
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    Bobby Ross wasn't exactly a no name; the guy's team won a share of the National Championship and he was, at the time, the current winner of the Bear Bryant and Bobby Dodd awards. Bobby Ross was, at that point, the equivalent of Nick Saban when the Dolphins hired him away from LSU or of Chip Kelly right now, if not more so: The very epitome of a "name" coach. But Bobby Ross wasn't Dean's hire... Ross was hired in '92, Dean didn't take over as president of the Team until 2 years after that.

    At this point Mike Riley is more an anomaly than a standard to point to for a rule; not quite as much of an anomaly as June Jones who was promoted and not outright hired, but Riley's still an anomaly. Your chances are better arguing that Kevin Gilbride was a non name, which he really was - aside from the fact that most of his notoriety came from his dust-up with Buddy Ryan.

    There's what looks like a noticeable pattern - whether it's an actual pattern will very likely be either confirmed or denied by this next HC hire by Dean. His first hires were the lesser known, hot shot coordinators and college coaches and both flamed out miserably, but the thing is that he seemed to try to follow the same path that his father did before him - hire a college coach (Riley and while not a name he was a known commodity to the SD market and the Chargers' newly acquired foothold in the LA market - that's weak, I know, but it does still merit consideration), hire hot-shot coordinator (Gilbride; just as his father had hired Dan Henning).

    But then Dean - with the team struggling (correct me if I'm wrong it was in terms of attendance and not just the record) - went away from what had been the standard and went for a more established (if less flashy) coach, a "retread" as it were, in Marty. And from Marty we go to Norv under the suggestion that Norv - by virtue of having been Mike Riley's OC - brings "continuity" to this team. It's that word continuity that really needs to be analyzed to peg why Dean was so willing to sign off on Norv. Plenty of people just want to label it as "AJ just wanted a puppet," but I really don't see that as the case (if AJ is all about ego then big ego people typically crave success - thus Norv's recent underachieving reflecting poorly on AJ would have been a sure-fire way to get Norv canned if AJ really was the one pulling the strings). But how is Norv "continuous" from Marty and Cam? He certainly didn't run a similar offense (Norv's Coryell and Cam's Martyball aren't all that similar). He certainly didn't have a knack for identifying and hiring quality coordinators. So where is this continuity? I legitimately ask this, because I think it's the key to cracking Dean's pattern of behavior.

    If it's just a buzz-word used to glaze over the situation and pitch an otherwise malaise coaching hire to the fan base then it's marketing and business pure and simple - which gives us a pretty good indication of where Dean's motivations lie. If the "continuity" is that Norv was part of the "family" in that he was a former staff member and coordinator (for one of Dean's past hires - even if we ignore how horribly unsuccessful that individual hire was), that tells us quite a bit too.

    Given recent trend, I'm not expecting Dean to be falling over himself to hire someone who doesn't have at least moderate name recognition with the layman market demographic (which does rule out several of the good, but very likely lesser known within Southern California confines, coordinators). And for the moment, I'm just seeing too many similarities between the present situation (team product on the field, in the locker room, and reception by the fan base) to just prior to when Marty was brought in.
  3. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    And your excuse for Wade's tenures in Denver... and Buffalo... where he also lost control of his team which resulted in his ultimate firing? Wade's not meant for macromanagment, he's just not. Give him a smaller unit where he still has someone he has to answer to and who keeps him on task and he's great. As soon as he's the one tasked with keeping everyone else on their stuff and being the main authority figure, and things go to hell in a handbasket in a hurry.

    Rex is quite similar. His players "love him" because he's so buddy/buddy with them; Rex has this incomparable need to be liked which is to his detriment. But consider this, the guy whom Rex made his own name (as an independent, not as a member of the Ryan family) was Brian Billick - another guy who was the "player's coach" that strove to be liked by everybody and who ultimately ended up with the inmates running the asylum because he was conceding and conceding more and more to the veterans (easier and easier practices, etc.) and those vets were all too happy to just keep taking and taking and demanding more because they could.

    Is Rex in an ideal situation for a head coach with Woody Johnson as his owner, which has really hamstrung even GM Mike Tannenbaum because Woody refuses to undergo the requisite "rebuilding"/"cap-bullet" seasons to put the team in a better position for the future, instead insisting that they "win now"? Yes, that's exactly the situation he's been in. But is there enough to judge how he'd likely behave as a coach in a smaller market or under different circumstances? Certainly. The New York stage didn't suddenly make Rex Ryan a loud-mouth or a cocky, smug individual. He's always been that way - just like his brother and just like their father was. He can't hire coordinators and coaches to save his life and is highly resistant to adaptation or change (see sticking with Brian Schottenheimer as long as he did, then firing him only to go with a guy who ran a just as inept style of offense in Sparano). He seems utterly adverse to being critical of his players. And, this part's just a guess but I'd say an educated one based upon other observations (and from seeing bits and pieces from "Hard Knocks"), he doesn't exactly run grueling practices - and cupcake practices produce cupcake teams and diva players.
  4. The LBC
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    I don't know that disciplinarian is the exact word I'd choose.

    What this team needs is someone who practices what they preach. Literally, the operative word here is "practice". You look at the coaches who have the most regular success both in the pro's and college. All of them, every single one of them, run no-nonsense, no excuses practices. Hard practices breed hard teams. Take John Harbaugh for example, many of the veterans on his own team hated him when he first came to Baltimore because he dropped the hammer of God and let them all know that the vets who'd been able to get away with sloughing off in practice and not going hard and with as much contact as rules would allow... well that wasn't going to fly anymore. And the vets damn near mutinied. What we've got presently is a team that's indicative of soft practices - right down to the lax attitude with which our OL blocks and the fact that we've been outed as not even practicing something as requisite in the modern game as a 2-minute drill.

    Hard-nosed, "***-chewing" drill sergeants aren't necessarily needed. A guy willing to hold a hard line and not compromise it in the face of previously-coddled veteran consternation is. A guy who understands it's more important to be respected than "liked" is. But you don't get respect by just demanding it and barking orders. Yes, these are professional athletes who are compensated significantly to follow the instructions of their coaches, but let's not be naive enough to believe that they're all complicit drones free of egos and personalities.

    Paul Bryant wasn't an ***-chewer. Neither were Chuck Noll, Vince Lombardi, John Wooden (not football but relevant still as he was a great coach), Paul Brown, or the more recent (if obviously not on the level of the ones mentioned yet) examples of Mike Tomlin, Mike McCarthy, Tony Dungy, Sean Payton, the Harbaughs, Lovie Smith, and even (though it pains me to say it) Shannarat. Yet, there's really no denying these guys have teams who will run through brick walls for their coaches.
  5. Ride The Lightning
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    The more I look at HCs around the league (and in CFb as well), the impression I get is one I've heard expressed time and time before (so I'm saying I didn't make this argument up myself nor will I take credit), is that the team takes on the personality of the HC. For argument's sake, let's look @ 2 teams that contrast, the Patriots and the Jets: Belichick is a smart, no nonsense, cut throat, and disciplined guy and his team reflects that, just as Ryan is a blustery and undisciplined **** talker, so is his team. And Norv is a wet diaper and the team plays just like that.

    I don't know who it's going to be, but I'm not sold on Reid, Ryan, or countless other names that have been tossed around, but please, give us someone more like Belichick or the Harbaughs and less like Jason Garrett or Norv.

    And once again FCUK NO to Chip Kelly and that BS offense, but I'll sure as hell take BRIAN Kelly or David Shaw.
  6. Ikeman83
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    I agree with everything but the bold. I don't agree with the bold, because I have to wonder, does Chip Kelly run that offense because it's the only thing he knows, or because it's CFB and with the athletes on his roster he knows that he can.

    I'd love to see a conversation with him where he talks about offensive football, and not just in the context of his offense at Oregon. I doubt if it could be done with our current roster though, as the no-huddle in the NFL requires high quality O-line and TE play to actually batter/create mismatches against the defense, and we don't have either of those right now.
  7. Ride The Lightning
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    Are you willing to take the chance and bring him up only to find out it's the former and not the latter? He recruits for the system, not the other way around.

    #1, that gimmicky offense will NEVER work in the NFL and trying to run it would result in getting your QB killed. #2, there is no way PR could run it, ever. #3, he hasn't won anything other than some individual awards* and a Rose Bowl (yawn) against Wisc this year. Don't get me wrong, I think he's an excellent COLLEGE coach, the Ducks are formidable under him, but I don't see him making the jump, especially with that offense.

    *2x Pac-10 Coach of the Year (2009–2010)
    Eddie Robinson Coach of the Year (2010)
    Walter Camp Coach of the Year (2010)
    Sporting News Coach of the Year (2010)
    Associated Press Coach of the Year (2010)
    AFCA Coach of the Year (2010)
  8. The LBC
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    Chip Kelly wouldn't bring the read-option to the NFL (sure there might be elements used to gain a competitive advantage where it made sense, but it wouldn't be his base), and the fact that you believe that to be the case tells me you really don't know much about Chip as a coach. You say you want a coach like Belichick... that's Chip Kelly. Both operate incredibly from a mathematical approach to the game and are intelligent in both the game and in general well beyond many coaches you'll encounter in this sport.

    I would absolutely LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Chip Kelly to be the next Chargers' coach, I just don't think it's at all a reasonable expectation because I don't see a way in blue hell that Dean outbids Phil Knight and Nike U for Chip's services.
  9. Ride The Lightning
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    He's been a HC for 4 years, only ran the one gimmick offense, and you're ready to give him the keys to an NFL franchise because what amounts to "offensive genius". Where have I heard that before?

    :p

    BTW, the gimmick lost to David Shaw & Stanford. Yeah I know, I'm contradicting the hell out of myself promoting David Shaw who has been a HC even less time that Kelly but I see shades of Harbaugh in Shaw and I see reflections of Norv in Kelly.
  10. The LBC
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    He runs that offense for one simple reason - there are only so many big hogmollies that are athletic and quick enough to play OL in the NCAA... and the Big 10, SEC, and Big XII have damn near a monopoly on those guys. Chip instead implemented a system in which he didn't need blue chip linemen in order to have an effective offense (and one which pushed USC's "pro-quality" talent around like schoolboys even with non-blue chip linemen) that consistently hung 45+ points (up until this year and even then only in one game) on the USC and Stanford programs which are touted as having numerous "future NFL players" on their defenses.

    People have this misconception that he is married to the spread option that he runs at Oregon. What people don't realize is how good he is at tailoring the offense to his personnel. Obviously he keeps some of the basic concepts but that doesn't mean he keeps the same playbook and philosophy. What he's running at Oregon is working as smoothly as possible, why would he stray away from that?

    Bill Belichick said that Kelly is one of the few people he consults on his football philosophy. Great minds think alike, and it says a lot when someone as proven as Belichick admits to receiving help from Kelly.

    Another thing about Kelly that I love is how he turned his decision making strategies into a mathematical formula. He knows exactly when to make aggressive play calls and how to recover from the consequences. His 4th down conversion rate is unreal and the points put up by his offense from game to game shows how efficient he is when his team has possession. I like that in a head coach, I'm not a huge fan of punting the ball away or settling for a field goal when there's a good chance you can convert.

    Kelly also has a little bit of a defensive background from his days at Columbia and Johns Hopkins. It is minimal, but you don't get hired as a defensive position coach and a defensive coordinator without knowing your stuff. Obviously that is nowhere near the most important part of his capacity to succeed as a head coach in the NFL but it definitely doesn't hurt.

    There's a reason why he went from offensive coordinator at New Hampshire to head coach of one of the best college football programs in the nation in a span of only six years. He's a genius, and his team buys in to his philosophy. There really isn't much more to it. He has all the ingredients for a successful recipe as an NFL head coach and I would love it if he were the coach of my team.
  11. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Read my last post. You're thinking incredibly shortsighted and without doing remotely close to enough research to know what you're talking about the way you're representing.

    You praise the Harbaughs... one of which had experience as a ST coach prior to being hired as an HC. And yet you're going to knock Kelly because he only has 4 years of HC experience. He also didn't run that "gimmick" offense at New Hampshire. Just stop... you really have no clue what you're talking about and your snide attitude about it only makes you look like an ignorant twit.
  12. Ride The Lightning
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    Yep, that's just what we need, another "genius".
  13. Ride The Lightning
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    Dude, I pay most of my attention to 1 conference in CFB, Pac 12. I'm not gonna sit here and spout off about how great a fan and how long and yadda yadda, but I know what I'm talking about. Don't tell me I don't because I disagree with you. Agree to disagree.
  14. Ride The Lightning
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    Snide? I was joking, I thought the smiley would have tipped you off. Please lighten up.

    Not just @ Stanford but I also watched Jim excel as coach here @ USD as well.
  15. The LBC
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    I'm just saying that it irks me that plenty of people love to complain that we could have had "this guy" or "this guy," and then the same people seem to turn around and talk-down the guys who have the most evidence to support they are the next "that guy" coach because "they don't have enough requisite experience".

    Rather than citing that the guy only has 4 years of experience as a HC as a detractor, maybe take a step back and think about what the reason could be that that guy, with only 4 years of HC experience, could go from the offensive coordinator at a D-1AA school like New Hampshire to the HC of one of the most successful college football programs of the last four seasons in just 5 years. A gimmick coach with a gimmick offense doesn't do that (Rich Rod anyone?). A guy who knows how to constantly adapt and use whatever system he needs to makes the most of the talent he has on his team does. it says quite a bit that Chip has managed to produce not just a high-powered offense that can hang point on anyone (and hung more points on LSU's vaunted defense last year than the national champions Alabama did in two games against them combined) but a dynamic defense as well... and doing so with a program that "talent" wise is ranked 33rd by Scout.com and 43rd by Rivals.com, below the likes of Alabama, Auburn, Stanford, USC, even UCLA.

    You don't end up with the "next great coach" because you sat around and waited until he absolutely showed you that he's perfectly capable of stepping in and being a pro coach, because by that point he's already coaching for some other club or he's going to be bought up by the biggest market team looking for an upgrade at HC. People questioned Bill Belichick being given a second chance. They questioned whether John Harbaugh and Sean Payton were "ready" to be "the guy" for their own team. How'd those situations turn out? You want greatness you've got to roll the dice and buy early or else you're very likely going to miss out on them.
  16. JAMMER
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    Andy Reid may not be the solution, but he is a major upgrade over Norv Turner...

    Pretty sure he will interview for the job...
    would love Gruden... he will stay @ESPN
    wouldn't mind the interim coach in Indy
    we need a tough coach... a young Coughlin!
  17. SuperCharger92
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    Do we have players, like he has in NY here? Cromartie, Holmes, etc. all those guys are punks and locker room cancers. I know other players have spoken out, but hey if I see my captain (Holmes) talking out against Tebow or throwing a hissy fit in the huddle I start to think I can do the same..

    He still isn't my top option.. I really like David Shaw
  18. Ride The Lightning
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    You think he's the next big thing, I think he's a D1 coach at best and he's right where he belongs. Like I said, agree to disagree. Unless one of us is from the future neither of us is right or wrong.

    ;)
  19. Ride The Lightning
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    They didn't have those guys either until RR, just saying.
  20. AnteaterCharger
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    But outside of Bart Scott and maybe one or two other players, did RR really influence who they picked up?
  21. Ride The Lightning
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    No idea, but you would think the HC would at the very least have some kind of say in who the team signs/trades/cuts.
  22. AnteaterCharger
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    Some say but given the Jets GM and their odd selections among which include Cromartie, Holmes & Tim bleeping Tebow, I really wonder how much say RR has or has had since 2009. I don't know if he'd even be up for a HC position after steadily worsening record over the last few years.

    Conversely, much like Rivera, I would be very very very intrigued about bringing Ryan in as a DC. THAT could be very very fun
  23. Holy_Bolt
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    Living in the middle of Duck/Beaver country, I hear a lot of buzz regarding NFL teams interested in Chip Kelly. In my opinion the jury is still out about Chip and his likely hood of success as an NFL coach. Listening to the local sports talk show host they all seem to back what you are saying. Don't be fooled by Chips approach to how he runs the Duck offense. They all believe that Chip will develop a successful offensive strategy that matches the talent on the field. The jury is still out, but someone is going to test Chip...assuming they can beat out Phil Knights pocket book! I think if recent league investigations imply Chip participated in some questionable recruiting practices he will jump to the NFL...like Pete Carrol did. Just our luck if we have to play against him...Norv is certainly no match. You are also right regarding Belicheat. Dan Patrick was saying this week that Belicheat visited Chip this past off season for pointer. He admits to deploying some of them and DP thinks it has help the Pats continue to be a dangerous team this year.
  24. SuperCharger92
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    *Revised

    Of course I know who Chip Kelly is. But I never read too much into him cause frankly, I don't believe he's play calling can translate to an NFL offense. But, reading what LBC said, I do believe in him. A whole lot after reading up on him a little more. I still, however, think David Shaw is a mirror image of Jim Harbaugh, I know someone already said it. He has 8-9 years experience in the NFL already as a QB's coach. His teams play hard, smart football. And he had the one up and beat Chip IN OREGON. Thats a hard thing to do and to limit an offense to 13 points that was averaging 40+ just shows you. And I would like a college coach, cause frankly, the NFL is slowly turning into a college football game.

    Also, added Mike Nolan in there, and dropped Pees. His cast in SF was **** really. And drafted a few players that are main stays there now. And seeing what Nolan did tonight against Brees, was special as well. ATL has a really good defense. Their players did execute to the fullest, but he prepared them to. Nobody picks Brees off 5 times. The coverage schemes and blitz packages he threw at Brees were magnificent.
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  25. nflhof
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    Wade Phillips now that would be funny! Everyone would have to buy new torches and pitchforks!
  26. SuperCharger92
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    It was more of a familiarity thing. Being here in San Diego before. He never had a full season were he had a losing record. Prior to losing Romo in 2009 or '10 whenever it was he was 33-15.. Dallas is a ****** place to coach period. Of course his post-season record is terrible, but at least he got his teams there.
  27. Ride The Lightning
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    Hiring Wade would be almost as big of a letdown as hiring Norv was. Almost.
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  28. nflhof
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    I would be speechless if Dean brought in Wade. Oh the horror from the know it all bandwagon fans who really know nothing at all.
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  29. SDRaiderH8er
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    Then maybe we can shoot for Buffalos record, we can go to the super Bowl Five years in a row and lose. Because at least we went there, we don’t have to win it. Then we can be labeled the best team to never have won a Super Bowl, a dubious honor that we should be proud to have earned, huh?
  30. HEXEDBOLT
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    Please, no Reid in San Damn Diego!!!!!!!!!

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