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Archaic Rules, do they make sense?

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by eoconnor101, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. eoconnor101
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    eoconnor101 BoltTalker

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    There are certain rules I accept in the NFL and other that make no sense. Since replay has come into the picture what is allowed to be challenged and what isn't also makes no sense. I just want to see what the general feeling is on these rules and regulations.

    1) Penalties negating turnovers when the penalty has no effect on turnover.

    We are all aware that a block in the back after a pick does not negate posession, the penalty is enforced from the spot of the foul. What I don't and have never understood, is why a late hit on a QB negates a pick. He has no way of knowing when releasing the ball that he will be hit cleanly or not, he has made a decision to throw it to a certain spot, and if he does and it's intercepted then his decision was poor and he should be punished. In last nights game, Ingrams hit came AFTER the turnover IMO....Brees did not know if Ingram would hit him in the stomach, really spear him helmet to helmet (he didn't), or pull up short, offer him a cup of tea and cucumber sandwhich and congratulate him on breaking Unitas record. The point is he already threw the interception prior to being hit, and the penalty should not negate the turnover. The league could either call it a spot foul, no return allowed and 15 yards back from the spot of the pick, or something else.

    2) Offsetting penalties

    Okay, when they are truly offsetting then fine, like a DB and WR interfering with each other, or offsetting Personal fouls. But if logic tells you one team deserves to be punished and the offset removes it then something is wrong. In yesterdays game between the Broncos and the Pats, it was 3 and 4 for the broncs. The pats D jumped off and it was a free play, Manning threw it to a receiver who was flagged for an illegal touch because he had stepped out of bounds. The penalties offset and they repeated 3rd down. This is ludicrous, the point of a 'free play' is you are playing advantage, once the offensive team has not gained an advantage the offsides penalty should have been enforced and it should have been 1st and 10 to the Broncos.

    3) Automatic 1st down penalties

    Some of these have to be, like PI, a spot foul with an automatic first down otherwise you could deck a pass catcher short of the 1st down marker and know his spot foul wouldn't get them the first. Same with defensive holding or illegal hands to the face. But personal and roughing fouls after the play don't make sense. I get that they feel and 3rd and over 15 situation or 4th and 15 situation could theoretically take a hack at someone knowing they won't give up a first, but remember, the officials have the right to simply eject a player from the game for this, the NFL can also fine players for this so I'd like to see this done for intentionally malicous acts instead of ticky tack roughing the passer or punter calls making a 4th and 26 play a first down.

    4) Why is PI not reviewable? It is one of the easiest calls to reverse, or to enact in a non call incomplete or pick? It's way easier to determine via replay than some posession in terms of completing the catch or down by contact or spot of the ball calls? All you have to do is allow a coach to throw a flag that his player was interfered with and if they look and it turns out he really was and no timeout is charged, the team is not charged for challenge, how quickly do you think the Saints DBs would have had to keep their hands to themselves? Not to mention there would have been an automatic review of Gates O-PI call.

    This isn't sour grapes at all, just what rules I don't get and I can't figure out who came up with them in the first place.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  2. mettadown
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    mettadown BoltTalker

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    Another one that annoys me is holding being only 10 yards. It should be 10 yards plus loss of a down since if a player is held to prevent a sack or a tackle for loss, they would've lost a down and some distance, so there is some incentive to hold if you get beat.
  3. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    Yeah I mentioned this last night. Taking the ball away when the penalty had nothing to do with the turnover is HUGE...the yards...the 1st down...plus possession. There really isn't a more devistating penalty to a teams moral than the one on Ingram last night.
  4. FCBolt
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    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Disagree. They're still up by 10 after that call with the Saints not having very good field position.
    Teams with spine play through that kind of sheet.
  5. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    Teams with spine play through it, but it's still a huge hit to the morale.

    The teams with spine just suck up the hit and hold them.
  6. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I think that the purpose of the automatic first down resulting from personal foul penalties involving the QB/Punter is to make the penalty severe enough that opposing defenses will respect it. Even taking a less extreme example than reversing a pick six, even a normal roughing penalty is huge, especially on 3rd down. If the QB has his hand on the ball when the penalty occurs, you've just taken a likely 8 yard loss and turned it into a 15 yard gain, that's a quarter of the field!

    I think the penalty needs to be severe, or else it shouldn't exist at all.
  7. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    And what if they weren't up by 10? He was questioning the rule, not the particular game situation.
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  8. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    I actually get this and fully agree with it.

    However, I think the NFL needs to adopt the NBA's new rule where a player can get fined or even suspended if they can prove on video that he faked a hit to draw the foul.

    Nothing pisses me off more than when the first down is gained from a fantastic acting job.
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  9. FCBolt
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    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    He said it was devastating to their morale.
    If they were down by 1-7 and it was the end of the game, then sure, that would hurt the morale. Up by 10 with lots of time and you're getting pressure? That should get a team psyched.
  10. FCBolt
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    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    I don't know where you guys get that it's a hit to morale. Have you ever played sports before? You go right back after them. "Ah no, we just got a pick 6 called back. My morale just took a big hit." I could see it if it was in the closing minutes and you were behind by a TD. But when you're up by 10 in the 3rd? C'mon. If you can get in his face once, you can do it again.
  11. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    Hey, I agree with you 100 percent on how they should have reacted to it. I was saying the same thing in discussion on a football based facebook group right after it happened. I kept saying they should suck it up and realize they're still in great position as I watched them fall asleep afterwards.

    But that doesn't mean it's not a hit to the morale. I'm calling a spade a spade. A real team sucks up the hit and crushes the offense yet again, but...it's still a hit.

    If a boxer gets knocked down but then gets right back up and wins the fight I don't call that initial knockdown not a hit. I just applaud him for getting up from the hit as you're saying the Chargers should have from the proverbial hit.
  12. FCBolt
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    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough--I'm totally in agreeance with your opinion last night ;) I guess we disagree whether it's a hit--to me it was more of a knockout punch that they almost but didn't land. Up to the veterans to rally the group and say 'we still got these guys on their heels.
  13. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    What?....... blowing the opportunity to go up by 17 should get the team "psyched"?....... you lost me there.
  14. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    I don't know if I'd say it should get them psyched, but they should have still realized that despite everything they still had New Orleans pinned and on the ropes. But instead they responded by letting them march down the field and reduce the lead to 3.
  15. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Oh, I know what they should've done, but human nature is what it is....... people are naturally let down when they blow a big opportunity.
  16. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    Yeah, I hate human nature.
  17. SDRaiderH8er
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    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    Good teams play through it because they know they can overcome it.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Totally unrelated, but I can't believe that you still have Larry English dressed as a superhero, or is that supposed to be irony?
  19. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Originally, it was...... now it's just a sad reminder of AJ's 1st round drafting prowess. ;)
  20. FCBolt
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    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.
  21. FCBolt
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    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    BS. Goals get called back all the time in hockey due to penalties. Offending team goes right back after the opposition. Moping is for soccer players. And apparently internet posters. :roflmao:
  22. eoconnor101
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    eoconnor101 BoltTalker

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    I think the issue here is it's a devastating call to make, and perhaps since it was maybe a little soft AND reversed a pick six, there could have been some feeling of a let down. They are pros and went about their business but the fact is you don't get many chances to put Brees and his ego back on the sidelines and that was one they felt got away. Could they have stepped up any harder? Maybe, but we'll never know.
    I get the severity of punishment preventing the crime, but kickers dive all the time or exaggerate contact at least. All I'm saying is there are plenty of ways to strongly discourage the behaviour besides automatic 1st downs. Too many times have I seen an earnest attempt at a pull back with a bit of acting and wallah, a D's effort is erased.

    What I also don't get is that if you lay out and barely clip the ball but end the punter/kickers career there is no call. If you wiff by an inch and graze the kickers leg and he's fine you give them a fresh set of downs....this does not seem to comply with logic.
  23. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Then explain the Chargers......... a team you claim to root for. ;)
  24. FCBolt
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    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Spineless. And I'm not going to make sheet up like "such a blow to their morale" so I can say they have one. But hey, it is the trophy generation, and Norv caters to that type of attitude, so I guess that makes me crazy to expect otherwise. ;)
  25. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    So why cheer for a team you consider "spineless"....... do you have nothing better to do with your time? :confused:
  26. FCBolt
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    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Did Lance hack your account? :roflmao:
  27. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    No, I simply wouldn't waste my time following a team that I considered spineless. If that was my true feelings, then I'd find something else to do...... it's that's simple.
  28. FCBolt
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    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Baloney. You've called the Bolts worse in past seasons.
  29. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Really?........ I'm sure you can dig up some examples then.

    Oh, and while you're at that, explain why you picked a "spineless" team to win the Super Bowl. :laugh:
  30. FCBolt
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    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    No problem. When they play spineless, I have no problem saying they played spineless.
    The D needs to mature. They're young, and I expect they will mature and get better as the season goes on.
    Only remaining problem after that is the OL. If Gaither stays healthy, they should be good enough. If he doesn't, we're ******.

    Point being, it's okay to back a team but say 'hey they just played like sheet'. A point I'm sure you understand ;)

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