1. Welcome to San Diego Chargers NFL Football Podcast and Forum!
    Bolt Talk is one of the largest online communities for the San Diego Chargers.
    We host a regular Chargers podcast during the season.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Create an Account or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!

Archie Manning shoots his mouth off again

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by airbolt, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. airbolt
    Offline

    airbolt BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    Messages:
    123
    Ratings Received:
    +25 / 0 / -0
  2. Blue Bolt
    Offline

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    17,580
    Ratings Received:
    +2,771 / 47 / -26
    Mmmmmmmm pie. ;)

    [​IMG]
  3. Buck Melanoma
    Offline

    Buck Melanoma Guest

    Ratings Received:
    +408 / 17 / -4
    Who gives a crap about Archie. He was irrelevant as a player & is even more so now.

    BUT .... in hindsight, looks like he did the right thing for Eli.

    Truth hurts but there it is. Doesn't make Eli any less of a punk, but he did get a ring.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. HollywoodLeo
    Offline

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    13,706
    Ratings Received:
    +1,584 / 29 / -1
    It looks like it worked out for Eli, but that doesn't mean it was the right thing.

    If anything, we should be mad that his childish antics of the 2004 draft appear justified.

    "we" as football fans, not specifically Chargers fans.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Concudan
    Offline

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    47,138
    Location:
    North side of So Cal
    Ratings Received:
    +3,706 / 39 / -8
    Archie is a pimple on the arse of the NFL...:cool:
  6. HEXEDBOLT
    Offline

    HEXEDBOLT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    12,887
    Ratings Received:
    +1,575 / 44 / -6
    Arse pimples can turn into carbuncles.
  7. Buck Melanoma
    Offline

    Buck Melanoma Guest

    Ratings Received:
    +408 / 17 / -4
    Did I say it was the right thing? No. Hell, I'm still pissed off at Elway for pulling the same ****.

    However, it DOES appear that Archie knew a few things about the Chargers that he didn't want to adversely affect his son's career.

    As a Chargers' fan, it pisses me off to have that kind of disrespect shown for the team. As an NFL fan, it pisses me off that the draft was basically manipulated.

    As a Chargers' fan, it also pisses me off that Archie was right. And that emotion isn't pointed at Archie or Eli, but straight at the clowns that run this circus.

    One more thing - the NFL commissioner could have stepped in. He didn't. So make sure you save some of your indignation for Tagliabue, too.
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Lance19
    Offline

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,045
    Location:
    Wherever these Valkyries drop me...
    Ratings Received:
    +1,379 / 36 / -16
    I guess it depends on how one defines "the right thing."
    If I'm at the track, and I mean to bet on the 7 horse,
    but I make a mistake and bet on the 8 horse...
    who, surprises everybody by winning...did I "do the right thing?"

    Overall, the Giants haven't been as competitive as the Chargers
    over the Eli era...and the only argument that can really be made
    is the "ring" one...but was that ring the 8 horse winning a race
    it had no business winning? Were the 10-6
    2007 Giants the best team that year? A' great' team?
    Even a 'really good' team? Would most football people have said
    (at the beginning of the 2007 season) that the Giants were more likely to
    win the Super Bowl than the Chargers?

    I'm not minimizing the greatness of getting a ring. But for Archie to
    have made a "smart" choice, it seems like the Giants would've had to
    be a legitimately better team than the Chargers over Eli's career.
    I don't think the record shows that. Just my 2 cents.
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Savage Lizard
    Offline

    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,712
    Location:
    Big Bear Lake, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +828 / 22 / -1
    Trent Dilfer was also able to gravy train a strong defense to a ring, and he didn't even have to get his daddy involved.
  10. Savage Lizard
    Offline

    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,712
    Location:
    Big Bear Lake, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +828 / 22 / -1
    Let's not forget that the Giants were as big a mess as the Chargers at that point. Coughlin was pissing off all the players and was close to getting fired. Other than the chance to reap the benefits of being in New York, the Giants didn't look significantly more attractive at that point.
  11. FCBolt
    Offline

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,335
    Ratings Received:
    +604 / 11 / -4
    Depends on the weight one gives to Super Bowl victories in 'the record.'
    If you're going to look at straight Ws and Ls, the Chargers likely have a better record (haven't looked, just guessing).
    Also, if you believe like AJ does, that all you need to do is just make the tourney and then you'll somehow luck into a Super Bowl W, then you'd weight that Super Bowl W less, and again you'd go with the Chargers.
    However, if you believe, like a lot of people, that building a team to win a Super Bowl is about more than wins and losses, then perhaps you'd have looked at the Giants organization at the time and at the Chargers org., and decided that the Giants org was going to give you the best chance to do that.
  12. FCBolt
    Offline

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,335
    Ratings Received:
    +604 / 11 / -4
    They did to the Mannings, and it paid off.
  13. Lance19
    Offline

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,045
    Location:
    Wherever these Valkyries drop me...
    Ratings Received:
    +1,379 / 36 / -16

    My argument is that the Giants had not built a superior team,
    never mind a World Championship-level organization.
    There's no denying that they got hot for 4 games and somehow
    GOT one...but it has, in reality NOT been a great (or even better) team.
  14. FCBolt
    Offline

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,335
    Ratings Received:
    +604 / 11 / -4
    I got the point--I'm saying it depends on how you judge a team. Many people put more weight on the Super Bowl W than on regular season record. Also, I would argue they didn't 'somehow' win it all, they put together a great front 7 on defense that enabled a playoff run.

    Seems to me that Archie Manning looked at San Diego's organization, looked at the Giants and advised Eli that he had a better chance of winning the Super Bowl with the Giants. And with quarterbacks, winning it all is a legacy move. Just ask Dan Marino.

    I'm sure neither Archie nor Eli are bothered by the better overall record of the Bolts since Eli was drafted. I'm also sure they'd point to the Super Bowl ring as proof of a decision well made.
  15. Lance19
    Offline

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,045
    Location:
    Wherever these Valkyries drop me...
    Ratings Received:
    +1,379 / 36 / -16

    Right, but the topic wasn't "What would Archie say?" it was "did he really
    make an insightful decision?"...which I think is at odds with the facts.
    Overall, I think the Chargers have been the better team over Eli's career...
    if some want to argue that that 10-6 Giant team was really a secret juggernaut,
    that's their right...but I ain't buyin it. Line up the 2007 Pats against the 2007 Giants
    10 times, and the Pats win 8 or 9 of 'em. There's a reason that that game
    was a huge UPSET...because the Giants weren't nearly as good as the Pats.
    Hell, the Rams beat the Saints this season...we don't pretend that that means
    the Rams are better...
  16. FCBolt
    Offline

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,335
    Ratings Received:
    +604 / 11 / -4
    The Mannings aren't in denial if that's what you're suggesting. It sure looks like an insightful decision to most people that live outside of SD (and some that live in SD as well, specifically the folks who don't begrudge a guy for not putting his legacy in AJ Smith's hands).

    Also the Giants did make a run in the playoffs ie, they had to win more than one game. So let's not pretend it was a one-off lucky deal.

    One more point, like the Chargers, the Giants are candidates for the playoffs every year. Now me, I'll take the Super Bowl victory and playoff potential every year over no Super Bowl victory, better regular season record, and playoff potential every year. But that's a judgement call. Suffice to say that no one reasonable is going to suggest Archie made a mistake there.
  17. Blue Bolt
    Offline

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    17,580
    Ratings Received:
    +2,771 / 47 / -26
    Who ever said you were among "reasonable" people? ;)
  18. Lance19
    Offline

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,045
    Location:
    Wherever these Valkyries drop me...
    Ratings Received:
    +1,379 / 36 / -16

    I'm growing weary of this. I'll try one last time. It's always easy to
    Monday morning quarterback, and say something was smart after
    it already turned out well. Playing the lottery is stupid, but not to someone
    holding a winning ticket. For your argument to hold water, the Giants
    would've had to be a demonstrably superior team to the Chargers over
    Eli's career. The facts contradict that in every way. The only argument is
    the "ring" and even that season was an obvious fluke (Giants haven't been back or close).
    In fact, even in that 'lucky-as-Hell' season, the Giants were NOT thought
    be be anywhere near as good a team as the Chargers.
    http://espn.go.com/nfl/powerrankings/_/year/2007/week/0
    Chargers ranked 3rd in ESPN's power rankings, Giants at #17.
    And THAT's the season that supposedly shows Manning 'knew' something?
    Absurd. Sorry, you can play this anti-Charger, anti-AJ card 'til you're blue
    in the face, but "reasonable" people remember the facts. Yes, the Giants
    got lucky after the 2007 season, but that doesn't mean ol' Archie is wise,
    any more than the Rams beating the Saints proves that the Rams are awesome.
    • Like Like x 2
  19. Savage Lizard
    Offline

    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,712
    Location:
    Big Bear Lake, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +828 / 22 / -1
    I think the point being made is that at the time, there was really no tangible reason to expect that the Giants would win the Super Bowl, or had the pieces in place to have a better expectation than the Chargers. It's like if I have to decide whether to place $10,000 on black or $10,000 on red at a roulette table. Both look the same, so whichever one I choose is just a personal choice. If I pick black and black comes up, that doesn't mean I made some kind of awesome decision, it just means the choice I did make worked out.

    Looking in the rear view mirror, the Giants won. If you want to proclaim Archie a genius just because you don't like A.J., go ahead. What if L.T., Gates, and Rivers aren't hurt in that 2007 AFC Championship Game and we win it, then go on to beat ECry in the Super Bowl?

    I'll just continue to believe they were making a money grab at enhanced endorsement opportunities, and wanted the bigger stage for the Manning name. They happened to fall into a Super Bowl.
    • Like Like x 1
  20. FCBolt
    Offline

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,335
    Ratings Received:
    +604 / 11 / -4
    Your "I'll try one last time" stuff is pretty funny every time you try it. Know that it is appreciated in that it gets a laugh.

    To a lot of people, winning a Super Bowl is demonstrably superior. You're going to have to live with that. I get your SD point of view, I really do. You can't accept the Super Bowl argument because to argue for the Chargers in any logical fashion you've got to bank on regular season record (and power rankings !?!). You'll go to great lengths to try and show that the Giants were lucky. You buy into AJ's "just make the tourney and we might get lucky like the Giants" schtick. You can keep buying that lottery ticket, but it's not winning (which is consistent with the validity of your lottery angle on the debate)

    The Giants kicked arse. At the right time of year. Something the Chargers have not done. Facts? We'll keep getting back to the most important ones: Manning picked the Giants, and the Giants won the Super Bowl with him. Good luck with debating anyone on this but Chargers fans.;)
  21. FCBolt
    Offline

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,335
    Ratings Received:
    +604 / 11 / -4
    It's not roulette guys. It's Manning looking at AJ and the Spanoses and saying 'no.' Does it make Archie a genius? No not at all. Just savvy to whether the Chargers could put together a team with AJ's team building strategy.

    What ifs get you nowhere. Frankly, a lot of old sour grapes going on here. The Chargers benefited from the trade, the Giants benefited from the trade, the Mannings benefited from the trade. Archie likes to meddle--he's looking out for his kids. And in Archie's case he did so correctly--whether that conclusion comes from looking back doesn't matter. It's borne out by facts. I doubt that Archie wanted Eli to go to a crap team with great media exposure, after all. He had to have some inkling that Eli wouldn't have an Archie-like career.
  22. airbolt
    Offline

    airbolt BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    Messages:
    123
    Ratings Received:
    +25 / 0 / -0
    But my real point is why does Archie have to stick his nose in everything? Eli, okay he was a young guy at the time.
    But frigging Archie still has to be a mouth piece for Peyton at his age & stature?. He just comes off as a grand standing
    jack ***.
    • Like Like x 1
  23. FCBolt
    Offline

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,335
    Ratings Received:
    +604 / 11 / -4
    Sorry for the derail ;)

    I've gotta think Peyton is embarrassed, for sure. All Archie is gonna do is piss off Polian.
    But hey, if Archie wants his legacy to be a whiny old dad, that's on him.
  24. Buck Melanoma
    Offline

    Buck Melanoma Guest

    Ratings Received:
    +408 / 17 / -4
    And we can't even do that for a far superior QB like Rivers.

    Archie looked at the organization (Spanos/AJ) & said no ******* thanks. That didn't require any hindsight. He didn't like the way that they handle their business & steered his son in a different direction. I don't like it, I don't respect it, but I do recognize that he's right about this team.

    Read it & weep.
    • Like Like x 1
  25. Savage Lizard
    Offline

    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,712
    Location:
    Big Bear Lake, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +828 / 22 / -1
    Since ECry came into the league 25 teams haven't won the Super Bowl. So Archie could have done the same thing to any of those teams, and he would be a super genius by some of your estimations.
    • Like Like x 1
  26. Buck Melanoma
    Offline

    Buck Melanoma Guest

    Ratings Received:
    +408 / 17 / -4
    But he didn't. My point is that he took a look at THIS organization & said hell no. Even with Coughlin running Dysfunction Junction in NY.

    I'd say that it speaks volumes to the feelings about how Spanos/Smith operate.
  27. Concudan
    Offline

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    47,138
    Location:
    North side of So Cal
    Ratings Received:
    +3,706 / 39 / -8
    For one family that since Peyton became a god in Indy thinks they can dictate who what when where and why in the NFL. There are also a lot of players who want to play for the Chargers.

    In short dont give a rat's hairless tail about what the Mannings think of the Chargers, or that Papa Manning is trying to dictate that the Colts not take a QB in the next draft.

    #sothere
    • Like Like x 1
  28. Blue Bolt
    Offline

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    17,580
    Ratings Received:
    +2,771 / 47 / -26
    #sothere means it does sting a little....... right? ;)
  29. Lance19
    Offline

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,045
    Location:
    Wherever these Valkyries drop me...
    Ratings Received:
    +1,379 / 36 / -16
    So, if Rodney Harrison gets a bit more force on the ball,
    such that Tyree isn't able to precariously hold the ball
    against his helmet, to the ground...we don't have to have
    ANY of this "Archie secretly knew" nonsense?
  30. Sydalish
    Offline

    Sydalish Addicted to Sports

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    4,306
    Location:
    Carlsbad
    Ratings Received:
    +1,578 / 11 / -0
    Archie Mannings thoughts and feelings are irrelevant. He's an old washed up QB riding on the coattails of his son's successes.
    • Like Like x 4

Share This Page