1. Welcome to San Diego Chargers NFL Football Podcast and Forum!
    Bolt Talk is one of the largest online communities for the San Diego Chargers.
    We host a regular Chargers podcast during the season.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Create an Account or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!

Chargers-Butler talks stalling

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by AnteaterCharger, Feb 27, 2014.

  1. AnteaterCharger
    Offline

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    18,107
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +2,422 / 19 / -4
  2. matilack
    Offline

    matilack #therealagent47

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    13,301
    Ratings Received:
    +2,100 / 34 / -21
    If TT thinks he's one of the 5 best players on our roster, or will take the magic next step like Weddle did after he got paid, then I say go ahead and pay him like it.

    I wouldn't, but I do hope to keep him.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. The LBC
    Offline

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,023
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +937 / 15 / -1
    The cap is increasing this year and likely goes up more next year when the new media contract kicks in across the league. So "worth 7mill/yr" is relative.

    And to be honest, the AAV (average annual value) is actually the less important part of any contract - the guaranteed money is. As I pointed out in the other thread, Ellerbe's contract really isn't that bad when it comes to the guaranteed money (it's basically the signing bonus + one season of contract AAV) and his AAS isn't even that bad considering that it's below the Top 5 AAV's for ILB's and still on par with what Sean Lee got (who's had similar injury concerns/issues to Butler).

    I'm willing to wager that the stalling point in the discussions isn't so much the AAV, it's how much guaranteed money Butler and his agent are fishing for and TT's willingness to give him that amount without some sort of for-injury insurance policy built into the contract similar to what the Cowboys wrote into Lee's contract (which in itself is actually designed to be restructured in 2016 or 2017 if Lee manages to remain healthy till that point).
  4. Dublin Bolt
    Offline

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,317
    Location:
    Dublin, Oul Sod.
    Ratings Received:
    +405 / 7 / -1
    It's a good test of both Butler and TT. Butler certainly gives the impression that he is v happy as a Charger, a San Diegan if you will. And I'm sure the first offer from the Chargers is still more than enough to make him rich and very comfortable for life. So, over to you Donald. If you think you are 'all-that' and worth much much more than what the Chargers think then maybe you're not the guy we thought you were anyway....

    Having said that I like the cut of his jib and would welcome him back but not if we have to overpay (whatever overpaying for him is!!?).
  5. MadMike
    Offline

    MadMike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,222
    Ratings Received:
    +428 / 2 / -1
    He's missed 23 of 64 regular season games. He has 5.5 sacks, 3 int's, and 10 pd's in that time. He has 257 tackles/assists over that time. His numbers are solid above average. His attitude, leadership, and off the field is above average. His health is a question. I'd give him 6 million a year and write in the injury clause and call it a day. I guarantee we can replace Butlers contributions for less money then he wants. I want him back but our team is not in the place that we can put that many eggs in one basket.
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Bolts4lyfe
    Offline

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,370
    Location:
    Prescott, Arizona
    Ratings Received:
    +703 / 17 / -3
    I see him getting re signed, He is more valuable to us than he would be on any other team. He was one of the captains and a leader in the locker room, it doesn't set a very good example to anyone if they see the ones stepping up not getting rewarded.

    Luckily for us this cap increase came at the perfect time, which is set to be 133 this year, 140 in 2014 and 150 in 2016. I still expect us to cut bait on some of the high salaried players, mainly Le'Ron Mclain, Eddie Royal, and Jeromy Clary, and or Dwight Freeney depending what he looks like after having that surgery.

    I figure he'll see something exact to what Ellerbee got, similar to what Matilack said If he can take that Weddle like step, I'll be happy to see him get that contract.
  7. SuperCharger92
    Offline

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,871
    Location:
    Massachuesetts
    Ratings Received:
    +505 / 13 / -3
    In other news, Dion Jordan being shopped around by the Dolphins, I'd give them a 3rd rounder, Clary and call it a day :whistling:
    • Like Like x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. Bolts4lyfe
    Offline

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,370
    Location:
    Prescott, Arizona
    Ratings Received:
    +703 / 17 / -3
    BOOM


    Chargers re-signed ILB Donald Butler to a multi-year contract.

    The 25-year-old was the top projected free agent on the inside linebacker market. A 2010 third-round pick out of Washington, Butler's career started slow with an Achilles' tendon tear but he's come on strong the past three seasons as a versatile three-down 'backer with plus coverage skills. He's an ascending player. The second level of DC John Pagano's 2014 defense should be all but set now, with Butler and Manti Te'o inside, and Dwight Freeney bookended by a healthy Melvin Ingram at outside linebacker. Look for GM Tom Telesco to attack cornerback and nose tackle in free agency and May's draft.


    @DAButler56: Feeling blessed! Y'all heard it here first! Deal is done!! SD I aint going no where!! Too excited!!
    • Like Like x 2
  9. boltssbbound
    Offline

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,189
    Ratings Received:
    +1,061 / 30 / -0
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Bolts4lyfe
    Offline

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,370
    Location:
    Prescott, Arizona
    Ratings Received:
    +703 / 17 / -3
    [​IMG]
    • Like Like x 1
  11. SuperCharger92
    Offline

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,871
    Location:
    Massachuesetts
    Ratings Received:
    +505 / 13 / -3
    Great start to the off-season.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  12. Moses
    Offline

    Moses Yeah Buddy!

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
    Messages:
    582
    Location:
    London, England
    Ratings Received:
    +222 / 1 / -1
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. NYCharger
    Offline

    NYCharger BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2013
    Messages:
    162
    Ratings Received:
    +42 / 2 / -0
    Sweet. Any word on the terms?
  14. The LBC
    Offline

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,023
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +937 / 15 / -1
    He still needs to get stronger (but given that we have guys capable of rotating with him and giving him "another" redshirt year), but there are all of maybe 2 or 3 guys with his ceiling in this draft class - one of whom is as-raw if not rawer than Jordan is, another who is going to go Top 5. Not sure Miami would bite, but I'd give at minimum our 2nd or even our 1st for him. I know the CB-wanters will gripe for wanting our 1st available for that and that adding Jordan with our 1st wouldn't do enough to bolster our pass-defense. But those folks are forgetting that Jordan is capable of doing something that, thus far, the majority of our defense has struggled with for the past several years: Cover the TE well.
  15. SuperCharger92
    Offline

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,871
    Location:
    Massachuesetts
    Ratings Received:
    +505 / 13 / -3
    He can do everything. It would pretty much be like having another lengthier and taller Ingram. Problem is, he needs to be moved around as well or at least develop into a complete pass rusher. Who is going to develop him? Because Pagano and his staff won't.

    If we could get Jordan for a 2nd-3rd rounder (don't want to give up a 1st because, well, he is still unproven) and land Aaron Lynch on Day 3, although, I think he might go Day 2 because someone will roll the dice, your looking at 2 freaks at OLB that can develop into a nightmarish pass rushing duo.
  16. Fossil
    Offline

    Fossil BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    404
    Ratings Received:
    +175 / 2 / -1
    Great work on Butler. I'm guessing the contract is somewhat favorable to DB since they didn't have a drawn out haggle-fest. Interesting thoughts on Jordan, is he good against the run too?
  17. matilack
    Offline

    matilack #therealagent47

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    13,301
    Ratings Received:
    +2,100 / 34 / -21
    I said it last year when the Fins swerved out of their lane, Dion Jordan belongs in a 3-4 defense. If he's on the block I'd gladly give up our 1st round pick for him (after trying to lowball them like LBC suggested of course;)). He's not great against the run, but he's not Antwan Barnes.
  18. Moses
    Offline

    Moses Yeah Buddy!

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
    Messages:
    582
    Location:
    London, England
    Ratings Received:
    +222 / 1 / -1
    I really liked him last year, kinda hoped he'd slip to us. Him and Ingram could make a formidable tandem on the edge for the next few years. I definitely don't think there is a higher upside guy that you could get at #25 in this draft.

    Really can't believe the Dolphins would give up on him this quickly, but then again their organization is a mess so nothing is really that unbelievable with them I guess.

    Throwing them a second for Dion would make Telesco a hero in my book lol.
  19. The LBC
    Offline

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,023
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +937 / 15 / -1
    See, the won't spent a 1st round pick on an unproven guy theory is off. High upside comes at a premium. He's as proven as any of the guys in this class are at the pro level. If Jordan was in this class, Anthony Barr would hardly even be in the discussion for a 1st round selection.

    The term "let them learn under ____" gets way overused by fans in doing draft projections, because it assumes the player is going to be receptive to learning and that the "teacher" is willing to teach (which as we saw with some players, like Brett Favre, some of these vets aren't all that keen on grooming their successor). However, we have a guy on our roster who has already actually demonstrated that teaching ability, last season on the sideline when he was injured (Freeney). Joe Barry may be worthless, but one of Freeney or Johnson is likely to remain on the roster in 2014 (if not both) and both have shown to be willing and capable instructors. Just saying.

    It's sounding like the reports out of Miami are just Peaches LaCanfora blowing smoke out of this butt again (big surprise!), but Jordan would be a Top 10 pick if he was eligible to be selected in this draft class, so getting him with the #26 overall selection and filling a position of need for us in the process would be a gift horse.
  20. NYCharger
    Offline

    NYCharger BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2013
    Messages:
    162
    Ratings Received:
    +42 / 2 / -0
    I can't see the Dolphins taking on a $16 million cap hit for letting go of Jordan. They have a lot of cap space but that just seems crazy.
  21. Blitzy
    Offline

    Blitzy Rainbow Bolt

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,879
    Location:
    North County
    Ratings Received:
    +237 / 16 / -2
    Thank goodness that TT is not a drama queen like that previous GM. If the numbers make sense, let's keep the home grown super talent and wish them a healthy career as a Charger :tup:
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2014
    • Agree Agree x 1
  22. SuperCharger92
    Offline

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,871
    Location:
    Massachuesetts
    Ratings Received:
    +505 / 13 / -3
    We don't know how his game translates to the NFL, though. I don't understand why Miami traded up for him anyways, he fit the 3-4 and there operating the 4-3. But, your theory does make a lot of sense. If we got a Dion Jordan type player at 25 overall, it would be gold in terms of value.

    But this is a "show me what you got" league isn't it? I mean Trent Richardson was a 3rd overall pick and showed it in production and Cleveland got a 1st rounder for him. I'm just saying Jordan doesn't have the NFL production to warrant a 1st rounder.

    Louis Riddick tweeted out a few weeks back about this. Under new regimes, some players could be on the move. Jordan doesn't fit in Miami and they have Wake and Vernon producing, and already have a SOLB and WOLB that are established in their scheme. So does make some sense. We saw it with Richardson.

    If I'm Telesco, I pull the trigger. Were most likely not going to get Nix, Gilbert (not t00 high on him) or possibly Roby any ways. And a LB core of Jordan, Te'o, Butler and Ingram is a young one going forward, but all signs pointing up for them.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2014
  23. AnteaterCharger
    Offline

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    18,107
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +2,422 / 19 / -4
    Reports are that the dolphins are also shopping Cameron wake. They deny it but oh lord I'd toss them a second or third for him


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. matilack
    Offline

    matilack #therealagent47

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    13,301
    Ratings Received:
    +2,100 / 34 / -21
    Its a damn lot, but if they realized (a year later than everyone else) that he is a bad fit and they can salvage a 1st round pick, I wouldn't be surprised.
  25. Dominion Bolt
    Offline

    Dominion Bolt BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2013
    Messages:
    173
    Ratings Received:
    +90 / 0 / -0
    Jordan is intriguing, love to see the Bolts get him for less than a #1; but at the same time I can't help but wonder if the Bolts turn this year's #1 into an additional #2 and #3 (however the math works), given the perceived depth of the draft.

    Love the lack of drama with the Butler signing - well done TT!
  26. HEXEDBOLT
    Offline

    HEXEDBOLT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    12,801
    Ratings Received:
    +1,547 / 44 / -6
    I sure hope they kept the outhouse to get this deal done or there could be a big problem being up to their nose in shyte down the line.
  27. Bolts4lyfe
    Offline

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,370
    Location:
    Prescott, Arizona
    Ratings Received:
    +703 / 17 / -3
    without details Butler said the deal allows him to remain in SD for 3 to 7 years, I'd imagine it being along the lines similar to Patrick Willis's contract. Where his base salary is forgiving in the first 3 years attached with his signing bonus which would equal to @ 6, then the last 4 years his base goes to around 4 or 5 with a lesser signing bonus.
  28. boltssbbound
    Offline

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,189
    Ratings Received:
    +1,061 / 30 / -0
    Yeah, I'm guessing it's a three year deal with a team option for 4 more years if Butler stays healthy and plays the way we all expect him to.
  29. NYCharger
    Offline

    NYCharger BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2013
    Messages:
    162
    Ratings Received:
    +42 / 2 / -0
    Signing bonuses are spread over the life of the contract or five years, whichever is less. If it's true that he's likely to stay for three years then that means his signing bonus is probably pretty substantial and the base salaries are lower in those first three years. In other words, the contract is set up so that while we can cut him before year 3, doing so would cost us more than keeping him so it's a de facto guarantee.
  30. Bolts4lyfe
    Offline

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,370
    Location:
    Prescott, Arizona
    Ratings Received:
    +703 / 17 / -3
    Interesting little note in this PFT article


    Posted by Mike Florio on March 1, 2014, 5:05 PM EST
    [​IMG] Getty Images
    On Friday, Chargers linebacker Donald Butler announced via Twitter that he has signed a new contract with the team. More than 24 hours later, the only available detail is that it’s a multi-year deal.

    There have been no reports about the money to be paid. No information about base value, annual rate, signing bonus, guaranteed money. Nothing.

    Teams and agents recognize a 24-hour rule when it comes to news of player contracts. If the terms aren’t leaked within 24 hours after the contract emerges, the terms aren’t worth bragging about.

    In this case, the terms may not emerge until the contract is officially filed with the NFL and NFLPA. By then, the media likely will have moved on to other things, with no one pointing out that maybe Butler didn’t get the kind of contract he was hoping to obtain.

    In fairness to Butler, there’s also a chance Butler simply doesn’t want his financial information to be publicized. Some players realize that nothing good comes from having friends and family members know too much about how much a guy is making, because then folks will start to show up to pat the player on the back with one hand while extending the other palm, flat and open and empty.

Share This Page