1. Welcome to San Diego Chargers NFL Football Podcast and Forum!
    Bolt Talk is one of the largest online communities for the San Diego Chargers.
    We host a regular Chargers podcast during the season.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Create an Account or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!

Chargers sign Donald Brown RB from Colts

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by MadMike, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. JoeRockhead
    Offline

    JoeRockhead BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,233
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Ratings Received:
    +85 / 0 / -1
    Let me add one more thing, he has a lot of heart like woodhead. He plays hard and goes all out when its his turn to make a play. I like to see players like that wearing Chargers colors.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
  2. Blitzy
    Offline

    Blitzy Rainbow Bolt

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,924
    Location:
    North County
    Ratings Received:
    +243 / 16 / -2
    Lancyboo...

    If I've learned anything from our past defensive foibles and also from the Seattle Seahawks, An aggressive, vibrant and young D must be build from good drafting. We have some good blue collar guys already on the D side and we shouldn't go after big names. I am much more excited about the landscape of this team under Telesco, than I had been under the previous regimen past 2007!
  3. Concudan
    Offline

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    47,080
    Location:
    North side of So Cal
    Ratings Received:
    +3,689 / 39 / -8
    You rang?
  4. The LBC
    Offline

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,028
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +937 / 15 / -1
    I retweeted this out since Bolt Beat finally managed to scrounge themselves up some good writers again and I like to do what I can to support these college kids (especially when they're also Chargers fans) who are trying to get their name out there as journalists.

    Guy's name is Nick Lee and he takes a similar number-crunching approach that I do when it comes to evaluation, so I'm a fan. But either way... really good and to the point article in defense of the Brown signing:
    http://boltbeat.com/2014/03/12/donald-brown-numbers/
  5. Lance19
    Offline

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,001
    Location:
    Wherever these Valkyries drop me...
    Ratings Received:
    +1,363 / 36 / -16
    Yeah, I think I may've been out hiking when the Telescopo Kool-Aid was being ladled out.

    I'm not down on the kid, but it looks like a lot of guys here are self-consciously over-compensating…
    either out of a desire to feel wonderful about the moves of the last year+, or as a swipe against the previous regime.

    And seriously, if you have a better feeling about this club than the '09 group, I'll field performance wagers.


    p.s. Now that the Broncos and Patriots have made bold strides to make themselves even better, I really feel awesome about landing a back-up running back at a high price.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
  6. ChargerMike
    Offline

    ChargerMike BoltBruthaFromAnuthMutha

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2012
    Messages:
    347
    Location:
    Iowa
    Ratings Received:
    +185 / 1 / -0
    Had to do it....he'll be great in between Mathews' injuries next year......count on it.
    It's been the same sh*t for 3 years with this guy....why would next year be any different....IMO anyway.
  7. Pointyearedog
    Offline

    Pointyearedog BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,929
    Location:
    Golden Hill
    Ratings Received:
    +772 / 5 / -0
    I really like this signing, and the fact that they used real ink for the contract...
  8. Blitzy
    Offline

    Blitzy Rainbow Bolt

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,924
    Location:
    North County
    Ratings Received:
    +243 / 16 / -2
    Sir Lance-a-Lot! Let's forget about the Koolaid and all that stuff about the previous regime (although in all fairness to you, I did also bring them up)

    Donald Brown may have been signed under the guise of being a backup to RM, but I bet you that it will be RB corp by commitee, plus it is a relatively well priced insurance policy for RM's injury woes and for when both RM and Woodhead become FAs in 2015.

    As for the footnote in your post:

    The Broncos are obviously betting the whole farm on getting to and also winning the Championship next season and the Patriots are also shoring up their atrocious D to hedge against the Broncos, as if those two are a shoe in for the 2014 AFCCG! Bah humbug!

    I now like to see the Chargers to "invest" their draft picks to primarily address both the DL and the OL weaknesses, as we can not go wrong with having additional quality young prime beef upfront. Thereafter, we can address our deficiencies in the defensive back field and also to a lesser extent at the WR position.

    Oh, as long as TT agrees and asserts that a team wins and falls by how it does in the trenches, bring on his Koolaid ;)
  9. Lance19
    Offline

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,001
    Location:
    Wherever these Valkyries drop me...
    Ratings Received:
    +1,363 / 36 / -16
    I'm a huge believer in building your roster through good drafting. Butler was doing something very right there in Buffalo.

    But, that said, FA is another piece of the puzzle. I can't believe that many here would
    sincerely say that Telescopo's relative inactivity so far puts us closer to, or even maintains
    the gap of quality that those teams currently enjoy over the Chargers.

    In other words, yes, I get that the Broncos are desperately trying to win now.

    Us?

    Uh…kinda?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Scott the Rock
    Offline

    Scott the Rock BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    608
    Location:
    Mountain View California
    Ratings Received:
    +75 / 1 / -0

    Exactly! Not to mention that a large percentage of draft picks have the potential of being a bust.
    A proven NFL free agent player that fills a need is just fine with me.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. The LBC
    Offline

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,028
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +937 / 15 / -1
    See, I feel like you're ignoring the forest for the trees.

    Exactly how is this inactivity? We re-signed the three of our own free agents that were the most important (yes, with Stuckey being the 3rd safety in the Cover-3/3-safety package we deployed a fair amount last season and the ST captain, I consider him important) and did so on very team-friendly deals. That's hardly inactive.

    We've been plugging in quality depth through FA so far just fine. A Robin-type "backup" RB who has shown capable of shouldering the load in all three facets of the game (rushing, receiving, and blocking - something that, I'm sorry, you can't say for most rookie backs). A former collegiate fullback who is coming off of a team where if you don't block, you don't get a roster spot, who is also capable of being a receiving option. And a young former UDFA originally signed by the team that just won the damn Super Bowl and is lauded for building their young elite defense largely from the draft and mid/late round gems (suggesting they know how to identify talent in late rounds) and was the leading pass-rusher in the CFL last season.

    The message of this front office is pretty clear. Do we want to win now? Yes. Are we willing to to do it at the expense of being able to also win in the near-future as well? Hell no. This isn't drinking Kool-Aid, it's using simple logic.

    You can only do in the market what the market allows for. The market for starting CB's thus far has dictated that you're going to have to fork over more than we can really afford right now (largely due to the fact that we didn't have the luxury of drafting so well that we're chock full of quality starters and 2nd tier players riding rookie contracts like some of these teams are). We can't just skip from step 1 to step 3, you have to do step 2 first, so to speak. Outside of NT (which is a 2-down position for us anyway and is a position which for the vet "run-stuffers" rarely sees a ton of movement the first several days of FA anyway), our needs happen to be at two of the four positions (three of the four if you include WR) that teams pay the biggest premium for in FA - and that to the guys who weren't so irreplaceable that their clubs didn't move Heaven and Earth to clear the space to at least franchise tag (unless you're the Raiders, but stupidity is typically the exception, not the rule).
  12. matilack
    Offline

    matilack #therealagent47

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    13,315
    Ratings Received:
    +2,106 / 34 / -21
    I agree completely except for one concern, #66. (sorry if you feel I'm beating a dead horse) I worry that their desire to keep him, just because he's a good locker room guy, is essentially tying their own hands behind their back. I understand and approve completely of the logic that we don't want to mortgage our future by jumping in the initial frenzy....but what future is Clary apart of? He's now over 30, overpaid as ever, and a consistently stands out as the weakest link on our offense, this is a guy we can and should make an effort to SURVIVE without.

    So I get the frustration in a different sense, weather its day 3 of free agency or day 30 we have a lot of important holes to fill with only 7 draft picks and a few million dollars.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. SuperCharger92
    Offline

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,878
    Location:
    Massachuesetts
    Ratings Received:
    +506 / 13 / -3
    Let Denver go crazy. Let Oakland go crazy. This "big name" FAs hardly ever work out. Look at Denver's additions, all have flaws in their respective games and all 3 of their signings have a checkered injury history.

    I absolutely love what Telesco is doing. Louis Riddick is a good follow on Twitter and he's preaching to the choir in some of his tweets. You sign your OWN players. You know how these guys work, day in and day out. You know how well they fit in your scheme and how they fit with the culture of the locker and city. There is a reason why YOUR team is cutting you loose.
  14. Lance19
    Offline

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,001
    Location:
    Wherever these Valkyries drop me...
    Ratings Received:
    +1,363 / 36 / -16
    I don't think so. I am looking at the forest. The macro-view is that the Chargers were a mediocre team last year
    (yes, a ref blunder pushed our record from 8-8 to 9-7). The moves you refer to to are mostly status quo moves.
    Status quo is great when you're a 12-4 team, on top of your division…we're a mediocre team,
    third in our division…far back of a 13-3 Super Bowl team with the best offense in NFL history…
    now considerably better over the last 48 hours. I agree about the CB angle, but what about Ware?
    A short term solution, but not getting him, plus having to line up against him + Ward + Talib + Von Miller...
    Is anyone seriously looking at this situation and thinking "Yes, Telesco has them right where he wants them" ?
    Chargers were 4 or 5 games worse than the Broncos last year…and now Denver is much improved.
    I don't expect the Chargers to try to keep up with a team that's obviously going all in for Manning's final (or next to)
    season…but unless Telesco has a miracle of draft, I don't see how this Charger team can be expected to seriously
    compete in 2014. I appreciate all the wishful thinking and rose-colored glasses in here…it does make me
    feel slightly better…but no…I'm really not into the Kool-Aid yet…and there's nobody that wants to believe more than me.
    • Like Like x 1
  15. The LBC
    Offline

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,028
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +937 / 15 / -1
    We were never in it for Ware. From every report I've read thus far, he was Denver's man to lose after Dallas cut him (thinking that he'd re-up with them for less money). Ware was always going to command upwards of $7-8m per season - probably not rightfully so, but big names like that get paid. We didn't have that luxury.

    The Broncos got names... good for them. If those guys stay healthy (and with each one of them that's a big "if" given their recent histories - and the Broncos similarly have right around the same luck we do with getting bitten by the injury bug to boot) yes, the Broncos are going to be heavy favorites. The key to beating them still remains - kill the Peyton, kill the Broncos.

    There's a lot of context that needs to be applied. We were a mediocre team that overachieved last year. So was the team that finished directly above us in the division - more talented than us on defense yes. On offense they were marginally so - very one-dimensional and functioning largely off of one particular player... who just lost two of his starting linemen to free agency. And that was with the Chiefs playing a last place schedule. On the season, that statistical Best Offense of All-Time faced all of two statistically Top 10 defenses (both of which were plagued by turnover-happy offenses - Giants and Texans). Does that diminish what they accomplished much? Not really. Some? Yes. They were very effective in beating up bad defenses and did you you're supposed to do against bad defenses - hang a lot of points on them.

    I'm not saying everything's rosy and that we're for sure going to be right back in the playoffs again next year and en route to a Lombardi. But the AFC as a whole is still pretty damn weak with two top-heavy favorites and then us mixed in with a whole lot of jumble in the next tier down.

    I'll make a bold prediction... we're not going to win the Super Bowl next year. It's not the end of the world. But mortgaging the next 4 years for the next 1 (which is what we would have had to do to sign the kind of impact players you appear to bemoan we failed to get or go for) is straight dumb. Those teams that similarly to us lacked talent and went out on major spending sprees last season sure stomped us in terms of record, right? I mean, Miami finished with one less win and collapsed down the stretch. Tampa finished picking in the Top 10. The Titans were one of the most underwhelming 7-9 teams I've seen, and benefited hugely from the terrible Texans and Jags being in their division. The freaking Bills signed Mario bloody Williams two season ago and still haven't managed to not pick outside the Top 10 yet.

    The reality is that it takes more than one year to infuse a team with the talent necessary to be perennial competitors (which it appears your definition of that would mean putting the words "Super Bowl" as the qualifier for "competitors"). But if people are being positive and finding encouragement over the simple fact that for the first time in a long time things are being done the right way, what's so wrong with that? Calling that blindly drinking the Kool-Aid is more than a little hyperbolic. Calling a good signing a good signing - whether it's at the position that's a massive need or just one that makes sense - shouldn't be course to draw ridicule.

    There are always going to be teams that try to buy their way to Lombardi trophies - before Denver and Tampa Bay it was Philadelphia, before them it was Jerruh and Dan Snyder playing one-upsmanship games. Thus far, those five teams have zero rings for all the spending they've done. In fact, the only team to hoist the Lombardi that's really gotten there on the backs of major free agent acquisitions was the Saints. I could see having a gripe if we were like the Raiders (or had even half the cap space they do) and were failing to pull in anyone of note or at least taking a shot. But given the financial hole that AJ's mistakes (and Telesco's one in Cox) dug us into, how in the hell were we going to be able to afford the contracts being given out to these guys without them taking a "ring discount" because they view us as a contender (which they don't) or us doing what the Saints are foolishly doing and keeping the Year 1 cap-hit extraordinarily low by backloading the hell out of the contract and giving a massive signing bonus that puts huge cap-hits (and potential dead money) on the books in the subsequent years after this one?
  16. Sandolf
    Offline

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,303
    Ratings Received:
    +297 / 10 / -6
    hahaha... you'd love to buy into the Chargers brain trust being superior, but this one little needling prejudice is getting in the way. hahaha....
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  17. Sandolf
    Offline

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,303
    Ratings Received:
    +297 / 10 / -6
    Having a QB like Rivers allows us to retool on the fly without sinking to the depths of the AFC. But this is indeed far from a single year project.
  18. NYCharger
    Offline

    NYCharger BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2013
    Messages:
    162
    Ratings Received:
    +42 / 2 / -0
    The Broncos are going to finish well ahead of us this year, but we already knew that. They had a better team last year by a comfortable margin and went into the year with $25 million more in cap space than us. Unlike the other teams trying to buy a championship, they a) were already in the Super Bowl last year and b) have Peyton Manning. Our best bet is to limit our obligations beyond this year so that we're ready to pounce after the Broncos blow their wad. This is the last offseason in which they'll have cap space for a long time, and Peyton Manning is like 100.

    My question for the fans of the Brown signing is at what dollar figure would you no longer be a fan? A $4 million dollar guarantee is never going to cripple an organization, but it's still a meaningful outlay, especially for a team with no cap space. First day free agent signings are the ones most likely to be overpays, and we aren't immune from that.
  19. Lance19
    Offline

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,001
    Location:
    Wherever these Valkyries drop me...
    Ratings Received:
    +1,363 / 36 / -16
    Yes, I'm beginning to think that Telesco's line of reasoning is: "Hey, Manning's got to retire some time!"

    And yes, maybe it is prudent to sacrifice 2014, in the hopes that 2016 or 2017, if Rivers is still healthy at 34 & 35, and Gates is retired,
    will be our time. Maybe that is a solid long-term plan…but it's making it hard for me to lavish praise at this time.
  20. matilack
    Offline

    matilack #therealagent47

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    13,315
    Ratings Received:
    +2,106 / 34 / -21
    Sandy boy do you even know what prejudice means? :p

    I shall repeat for the slow learners...72nd ranked OG, 4th highest paid player on our roster. No prejudice required.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2014
  21. Sandolf
    Offline

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,303
    Ratings Received:
    +297 / 10 / -6
    Two games maybe. I'd be surprised if is more than that.
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  22. Sandolf
    Offline

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,303
    Ratings Received:
    +297 / 10 / -6
    Tell it to Telesco and ABN sir. They must be slow learners too. :roflmao:
  23. HollywoodLeo
    Offline

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    13,672
    Ratings Received:
    +1,569 / 27 / -1
    I get that we don't like Clary. I'm not a big fan either. But you don't cut people just to cut them....especially linemen.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. matilack
    Offline

    matilack #therealagent47

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    13,315
    Ratings Received:
    +2,106 / 34 / -21
    No, but you do cut them because they don't earn their money. And if you've done any home work at all on Clary you know as I do, that is the case here.

    Just like Cox, just like McClain, we don't need him. At minimum he should agree to a substantial pay cut, I would be fine with keeping him around if he did.
  25. Blitzy
    Offline

    Blitzy Rainbow Bolt

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,924
    Location:
    North County
    Ratings Received:
    +243 / 16 / -2
    I don't think that it is highly crucial to decide Clary's fate as of this moment. A lot rides on the way that the draft will go for us so far as an offensive tackle is concerned. We are all in agreement that he's overpaid based on his prior contract as a starting RT. What we seem to quibble about is the measure of Clary's redeemable qualities and compensating values. Now, I'd like to see a little more time to be given to this issue specially after us (the fans) having passionately fathomed about Clary for the past several years; but that's just me.
  26. Blue Bolt
    Offline

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    17,285
    Ratings Received:
    +2,701 / 45 / -26
    Who knows, he's only played guard for one season....... he might actually get better at it. ;)
  27. HollywoodLeo
    Offline

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    13,672
    Ratings Received:
    +1,569 / 27 / -1
    I don't care how overpaid somebody is, I don't believe in cutting somebody unless you have an idea of who you're going to replace them with.

    Do you think our current backups would do a better job than Clary at his position? If so, why weren't they starting over him last year?

    Conversely, are you that confident there'll be somebody in the draft that we can get better than him? And is it worth passing on someone else now that we created that hole?

    I'm not suggesting an answer to any of these questions. I'm honestly asking them. I'm just saying that cutting the overpriced player is only half of the equation and almost nobody ever wants to address the 2nd half of the equation while screaming for the cut.
  28. Blitzy
    Offline

    Blitzy Rainbow Bolt

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,924
    Location:
    North County
    Ratings Received:
    +243 / 16 / -2
    Ed Zachary! :D
  29. matilack
    Offline

    matilack #therealagent47

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    13,315
    Ratings Received:
    +2,106 / 34 / -21
    1. Yes I do believe Johnnie Troutman is just as good as Clary, and actually a slightly better run blocker. I don't think either is the future at RG, but I know which one of these guys is paid what he deserves.

    2. Why didn't Troutman start? Well initially probably because Clary is the established veteran making the big money, but also because Troutman was starting at LG by week 4 when Rinehart got hurt. And it was clear in the playoffs when Clary did go down the staff wasn't comfortable moving Troutman to RG, having never actually practiced him there.

    I don't know about our future at RG, but I'm confident we could bolster our depth at other positions with the cap space from Clary, and that we might be able to focus on OG in the draft if we're not as concerned about those other positions. Just my opinion though.
  30. The LBC
    Offline

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,028
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +937 / 15 / -1
    The thing is none of that necessitates releasing Jeromey Clary right now. We don't have to be under the cap until June 1st (at which point we'll also have, presumably, signed our rookies as well). If Clary was set to earn some sort of bonus for being on the rosters past a certain date prior to 6/1 or for reporting to workout, I could see the logic in cutting him to avoid having to spend that additional money. But as things stand, he's not set to collect any further checks from us until his game-check Week 1 if he's still on the roster.

    So what sense is there to create a hole to free up space that we don't have to have presently to go shopping with on the off-chance we do get someone to sign for that money. Clary's like money stashed in the mattress for the moment. We don't have to account for any of what we'll be doing with that money in any sense until June and if we're sufficiently under the cap, that money doesn't start diminishing until September. So why is it so necessary to release him in March?
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1

Share This Page