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Chiefs and Raiders both lose today

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by ChargerRay, Oct 14, 2012.

  1. Concudan
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    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Here is the issue. Nothing new. The great football minds that roam our hallowed halls such as you and 'ant' all say that Norv is not doing his job. He is not taking accountability for his actions. Based on a few seconds of sound bites. Sound bites where he is answering specific questions about specific players such as Ingram. If you were put under half the scrutiny without knowledge of what you were doing at work, you would be suing your workplace for hurassment.

    You are not in the meetings, not in the locker room, not on the sidelines. You dont know what is called when. The fact is Norv can only coach up to game time. When it is live inbetween the whistles it is the players that have to execute. You cant simply run Mathews all day long, especially when behind.

    I mean seriously Matty. Get your gripes straight, is it that Norv calls runs all in a row, or he doesnt call runs all in a row? Whch is it because you have pined both ways?

    Stop, look at the game, dont just say "NORV!" LOOK! Is the players catching the ball, defending the receivers? Can you say with all certanty that the players are playing at a high level? Right now I find the CB, and WR play very suspect. If you want to put Cason playing soo far off and apparently out of position much of the time on Norv, go ahead, we will have to agree to dis agree.
  2. Buck Melanoma
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    Buck Melanoma Guest

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  3. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    I can tell you a few things for certain, yes.

    1. Putting pressure on your crappy OTs and your immobile by constantly trying to throw the ball down the field...******* stupid. Know your players, adjust your gameplan.
    2. Taking the ball completely away from your hot hand, RB or QB,...******* stupid.
    3. Abandoning the run game at any point...******* stupid.
    4. Telegraphing all your run plays by motioning a FB or TE back to the formation...******* stupid.
    5. Failing to use players like Eddie Royal to expose the constant cover 2 shell....******* stupid. Know your players, adjust your gameplan.

    I can't always speak to the players performing at their best, and I understand you have to throw some wrinkles in ot keep the defense off balance, but I can tell you for a certain NORV PUTS THEM IN A POSITION TO FAIL way to often. And the story hasn't changed in his 15 years as a HC, this is the same **** Redskins fans complained about, its the same **** I've been pounding at you for 5 years now that the slower pie in the sky fans are more than willing to bury their head in the sand about.

    Norv is not incapable of coaching a great game, he just needs to get out of his own way.
  4. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I agree with the bold, and there's a really interesting dichotomy to the Norv hate. Norv can't coach each individual player, and I don't imagine that he tries to, however, Norv is ultimately responsible for the performances of all of the coaches on his coaching staff. So when it is said that these problems should (or should not) fall at the feet of Norv, both parties are correct, which is what causes these debates to be endless in nature.

    What I dislike about Norv has nothing to do with how the players play for him, but rather with the strategic developments (or lack thereof) during the course of the game. One thing that I liked during the pre-Norv era (I will not speak his name and thereby gratify IMM) was that we were always a 2nd half team. Maybe that was just a result of having the best RB in the last decade on the roster, but we always seemed to make good adjustments coming out of the tunnel for the 2nd half. Time management and adjustments just seem to not be in the cards much these days, and I feel as though that's the job of the HC.

    I don't blame the inadequacies of our players (talent wise) on Norv. I don't blame their incongruence with our scheme on Norv either, however when the players lack typically coached behaviors, I have to wonder whether Smitty is drafting morons or whether our coaches are failing to teach these behaviors. Either way, I think Norv has enough failings without anyone needing to make things up to sling mud at him. I think that our CB and WR play lies squarely with Smitty for the personnel decisions he's made. I also think, however, that the lower quality of our passing attack is a function of Norv's unwillingness or inability to recognize that the composition of our WR/TE corps has changed relative to the path of development that he has been using for our passing attack, and that we no longer have the types of receivers which are ideally suited to the downfield passing attack he prefers, or that the quality of our line has decreased, reducing the team's ability to give Rivers the time needed for those routes to develop. I find it staggering that with a 6'5 230 lbs receiver available to him, that Norv can't conceive to throw a bubble-screen to Royal blocked by Floyd.

    Anyway, getting back to the topic of this thread, the Raiders and Chiefs are basically out of the playoff picture, but that won't make our games against them any less challenging. I imagine that both of these teams are likely in the Matt Barkley sweepstakes, which won't make one of them any easier in the coming future, either.
  5. Buck Melanoma
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    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Maybe it's just time for you to find a team that fully satisfies your immense intellectual capacity.

    I feel certain it will be a sad day for some of us. :rolleyes:
  6. Concudan
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    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Dude... Seriously, grow up and talk like a big boy. You get no cred for the number of asterix you put in a post... ;)

    You do at times abandon the run, especiall if you are behind multiple scores. You do understand that the run game grids the clock dont you? That means if you have to score more than one time, and cant rely on the D to give you one of those scores, YOU ABANDON THE RUN.

    Further, being one dimensional as you want us to be so your boy Mathews gets glory stats in fantasy football is a sure way to failure. The Chargers under Norv use the run to set up the pass, that is not going to change. You comment about Royal I find just obtuse as Royal needs to catch the damn ball. he has been thrown to, and fails to be in the spot or hold on to the ball more often than not. Yes they go jumbo backfield. But you saying that they only do that in a running situation is not correct. They do it a lot for vertical passes. In short they do it when they want to max protect the backfield. If you want to be mad at someone over our OL, be mad at AJ Smith.

    What gets under my hide is how many of our enlightened Chargers fans calls a successful play a good one, and a non-successful play a bad one, even if they are the same damn play. To me that speaks to a lack of understanding of the game. The game is a chess match, that is something you dont seem to understand. Norv is not perfect, I will be the first to say so. But he does not "WIN" us the west. The players do. to suggest otherwise is a statment of enflamed ignorance.

    Hold the players accountable. That means your OTs, CBs, QBs and even your RB when he gives the ball away. If you cant do that, then you are not objective enough to try and call out other facets of the game IMHO.
  7. Concudan
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    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    for the most part I like the play I am seeing form the Chargers this season. I have seen halftime adjustments, but I think some people are under the impression a half time adjustment only happens if you win. The biggest thing I do NOT like about Norv and PR is they are not a second half team, unless they are in the lead. Rivers/Norv runs the WORST 2 minute drill I have seen.
  8. Ikeman83
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    Even when we're in the lead, I feel like Norv goes into the locker room at the half and spends the entirety of his time there taking a dump. Maybe my expectations are too high, but I expect him to go into a game with his plan for the first half, and 2 plans based on the other team's likely halftime adjustments, one in case we're leading/tied, and one in case we're losing. It seems to me like what frequently happens after the half is that our opponent comes out with adjustments and our sole change is at the RB position. We never adjust our passing strategy to counter their secondary or pass-rush, and that's what bothers me.
  9. Buck Melanoma
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    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    What bothers me is when people speak in absolutes because then a reasonable post smacks of bullshit.
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  10. FCBolt
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    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Well, **** the Raiders and Chiefs. I guess maybe one could come back to compete for division, but it's not looking likely at this point (though the Raiders played the Falcons well in Atlanta and beat the Steelers).
    The Donks are the main threat right now.
    If you look ahead at schedule, Denver's eases up. I'd think they have a decent proportion of wins on the docket. Will be hard to keep pace if the Bolts lose tonight.
    Huge huge huge game relative to playoff implications (yep, I'm talking playoffs).
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  11. AnteaterCharger
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    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Wow this thread went from being a great "I'm fired up for MNF" thread into another complaining Norv sucks thread

    Massive fail
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  12. Ikeman83
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    All threads will end thusly until Norv brings home a Lombardi, and then probably still. The only possible alternative ending would be one in which Smitty has our collective loathing thrust upon him.
  13. Buck Melanoma
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    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Where's your entry? ;)
  14. Concudan
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    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I wonder why... Who was the first to bring Norv in? :rolleyes:

    Personally I would prefer not to see Norv suit up and try to win the game for us. That is what we have players for.
  15. Ikeman83
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    He's a little underskilled at the QB position, and really needs to focus on developing his coaching.
  16. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    If we're going to devolve every thread into a fire Norv thread anyway why is BOLTS4LIFE still banned?
  17. Concudan
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    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    have you talked to B4L in the last 2 years? Heard from him? Seen him around any of the forums? I havent heard from Alan since he called me about a year and a half ago. I doubt Robdog is maintaining any of the legacy bans, but that is a question for him.

    My point is you keep bringing him up. But is he even still doing the internet thing?
  18. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I'm banned for life over at .com. They've also apparently deleted all of my old posts. I guess they aren't big fans of mine over there.
  19. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    I was talking to him on facebook as recently as last night.

    It'd still be the same old stuff if we brought him back, though. Had a conversation with him the other day about Norv and it was the same cycle, rinse, repeat of a conversation that every thread turned into here when he was still here.

    I was just being facetious. (And usually am when I mention him in here)
  20. Concudan
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    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    He is still out there!

    That is good to hear, I was worried about him... Now....

    Anyone seen or heard from Turbo Turtle?
  21. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Didn't he outright state he was through with the Chargers and officially jumping on the Pats' (his "other" team) bandwagon after Deano's whole "Norv and AJ get a reprieve" shtick?
  22. Concudan
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    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I dont know...:unsure:
  23. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    This is your problem Conc, you continue to think I'm giving the players a complete pass, I'm not. I'm saying that players make plays, but coaches pull strings...or in your analogy move chess pieces. It's Norvs job to put them in the best position to win, and sometimes to make adjustments due to inevitable injuries.

    I'm just saying by becoming one dimensional when your only down 10 points at half (see ATL game) or up 10 points in the 4th (see NO game is the wrong way to go, for obvious reasons. Your not gonna score faster or more often by allowing the defense to cut their playbook in half and just focus on the pass.

    And your comment about this being about Mathews or fantasy football is stupid. Nothing more to say about that.
    And another difference is you think our O-line is terrible, when Gaither is in I could not disagree more. It's pretty common for fans of every single team in the league to complain about their O-line, but when whole ours is well above average. And when not Norv needs to adapt his playbook.
  24. SDRaiderH8er
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    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    But when the team comes up to the line of scrimmage, and I tell my youngest son that the Chargers are going to run the ball up the middle and to the right side of the center, and I get it right Norv has no imagination. And as a matter of fact I will go out on a limb and say the very first play ran by the Chargers tonight will be a run up the middle to the left side of center. He runs that play almost every game.
  25. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    Oh yeah, I remember that now.

    It's weak, but to each their own I suppose.
  26. Sydalish
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    Sydalish Addicted to Sports

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    If your players execute, doesn't matter if the opposing team sees it coming or not - j/s

    Ultimately, my problem isn't with predictability, especially not in the first 10-15 plays. Unless the opportunity presents itself to take advantage of a specific play, I'm of the mindset that if players do their job and win their battles, you don't need to get fancy. We've seen Norv call the deep bomb on play one before and he'll do it again, but you won't really see it coming b/c it's not a common occurrence - which I'm assuming is the point.

    My biggest pet peeve is with the sense of urgency (or lack thereof) in the waning minutes of any given half. I would love to see a hurry-up offense and an improved 2min drill. We've seen them run the 2min well, just not recently :p Hell I'd just be happy if I didn't have to watch players meander to the line like they have all day. Drives me crazy. A little hustle por favor~
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  27. SDRaiderH8er
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    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    It wasnt me! I am trying to be good, and that part is really really really hard
  28. Concudan
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    Your not listening, or reading as the case were. I am saying that you are being lazy in your arguments. Everything is Norvs fault (or at least that is what your posts say about you). It is the low hanging fruit and envouge to hate on Norv. I get it, I mean I hate it when Norv fumbles the ball or misses those FGs! ;)

    Seriously though. For the most part Norv calls an excellent offensive game. This year, Rivers is not connecting with his new Wide Outs. I agree in part with what you say, I dont think we attack the middle of the field enough with slants. But I certainly would not suggest removing our vertical passing game in favor of our running game which has been spotty at best. If Norv calls a play and the defense breaks it up, that does not mean that it is a bad play. feel free to disagree.

    That is my point, we have never beome one dimensional. Never. The RBs constinued to run and catch passes out of the backfield (teh equivelent of a run) even when down. I think you shoudl watch the game again and perhaps review your criticism on that point. But that is just my opinion, I am not saying mine is any bettr than yours, it is just mine... (insert golum voice saying golum things here)

    Oh for pittys sakes! You cant just ignore that comment, come on man! The gauntlet has been thrown! ;)
    I DO think our Oline is pretty terrible most of the time, even with Gaither in there. Aj Smith has too long ignored it on draft day. Gaither makes it better, but still our run blocking suxors! How many holes has there been for our RBs to go through? I have not seen a lot of big gaps. They are a bit better at pass blocking but still are vulnerable to the blitz which makes Rivers vulnerable to the blitz.
  29. Concudan
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    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    You call every play? Dude, go get a job with Denver as a defensive assistant. I can tell when we are in running formation, that does not mean we run it every time. I am sorry, all due respect and all, but that is kind of a weak argument. I can tell when we are going to pass, I dont feel tat Norv is predictable when we do. It just means that the base package dictated that play.

    P.s. you probably are correct. We will open up with a run. Most teams have scripted plays to start a game...
  30. SDRaiderH8er
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    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    I was wrong. They ran it to the right of Center. Buts its still the same ol Norv. The rest of the NFL is laughing at us, and all we can do is smile, because we have nothing we can say.

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