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Contrary to popular belief, the Chargers are average

Discussion in 'Smack Talk' started by Blue Bolt, Feb 15, 2012.

  1. AnteaterCharger
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    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    I think Norv had four good game plans all year long (Jags, Bills, Ravens & Raiders second time). Beyond that don't think he coached very well. When you have an average head coach (at best) with an average roster (in many places) you end up with average results.
  2. Concudan
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    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    See your avatar!

    ;)
  3. DenverBolt67
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    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    As a 10 year vet, it is also very obvious when a group has poor leadership, no matter how talented each person is individually. Without accountability, even the best troops fail
  4. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I don't think you understand what it is that I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the game plan, I'm talking about the behaviors coached into the players, i.e., how they play the game, not how they intend to attack the other team, although Norv does an *** job of adjusting his plan to combat the other team as well.
  5. Concudan
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    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I dont think you are actually seeing the picture. You assume that Norv is not teaching behaviors into the players, why? Because you dont like Norv. The offense has been one of the top producing unit in the league under norv, but you and others choose to say he cant do anything. That is not realistic nor objective. If you want to chat, pull your butt hurt out of it and lets look at the real deal, not some made up BS to support your hate. There are no habitual problems on the team. Mathews reduced his fumbling numbers, there is no one person who false starts all the time, so what is it you think that is not being taught to the players?
  6. Concudan
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    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Of course... Everything negative is clear to you as you make your excuses... We have been through that before. lets chat when you get some realism, and want to look at things both good and bad, not just make up your theories on poor leadership.
  7. DenverBolt67
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    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    I have plenty of realism. I understand that Norv is just as responsible for this teams failures as are the players and AJ. All 3 are equally to blame
  8. Concudan
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    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    That is your view of realism... Realism focuses on more than failure, as there IS more than failure.
  9. Savage Lizard
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    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

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    Behaviors are coached into players for years in pee-wees, high school, college, and then the pros. Sometimes they have had different coaches come in and out, and/or have been on other teams receiving coaching from those coaching staffs as well. Yet, if they f_ck up it's all Norv's fault right?
  10. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Mathews fumbled as many times this season (5 on 222 carries) as last season (4 on 158).

    Clary, on average, 1 false start per 4.5 games.
    McNeil, on average, 1 false start per 4 games.
    Dielman, on average, 1 false start per 12 games
    Dombo, on average, 1 per 5.
    Vazquez, 1 per 38.
    Hardwick, 1 per 25
    http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=6825&team=24
    These are obviously affected by the positions they play, and casual glances at other positions make them appear to be decent numbers.

    I'm not claiming that everything the Chargers do is retarded, our front line coach is obviously doing a good job coaching these players to not move until the ball is snapped.

    The point I was illustrating was not that the Chargers, specifically, have a poorly coached line, but rather that false starts, fumblitis, reading the defense, etc are coached behavior, which they are.

    You can't absolve the coaches of responsibility for the behavior of players by saying they can't control them during play. It simply isn't that simple, and pointing out areas where the Chargers do well doesn't change the fact that the Chargers also make wildly boneheaded plays, plays which are largely the result of poor anticipation by the coaching staff with regards to the individual needs of players.

    I don't think anyone is saying that Norv can't scheme his offense. I don't think anyone is saying that Norv doesn't understand how to attack a defense. I do think that Norv has failed repeatedly at ensuring that his players were adequately prepared to play on Sunday.

    From the Norv,
    http://www.chargers.com/news/articl...v-Turner/7c52dfc5-1b9e-4da7-9c09-92381a45cb4b

    This is part of why Norv is a bad HC. The rest is clock management and halftime adjustments, which, btw, we don't make. To me, the quote above says it all about Norv, and it's really framed my opinion of him ever since I read it in October of 2010. Sadly, he hasn't done anything since October 2010 to encourage me to change that opinion.
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  11. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    No, it's AJ's fault for bringing in a player with garbage fundamentals as well as Norv's fault for not hiring good enough position coaches / providing oversight on those coaches to ensure that the players who are on the field have been properly trained to make the right reads/maximize their natural talent to achieve optimal (or at least not abysmal) performance on the field. That IS a head coach's job.
  12. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I get where you're coming from here, and you're absolutely right, Norv is not a complete trainwreck as a headcoach. He is not always totally overmatched, he does typically come into the game with a decent gameplan for the players he has available that week, and he runs an incredibly effective offense.

    Norv as a head coach is basically the same as having a beautiful, intelligent, sex-crazed girlfriend, who is totally in love with/lusts after you, gets along with your parents, is obscenely rich, finds you funny, witty, and charming, and is the Grand Dragon, High Wizard, and Keeper of the Ancient Mysteries of the KKK in your state.

    All of her positive qualities are amazing and exactly what you look for, but her negatives make her completely unacceptable.
  13. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I have to say, you have the biggest collection of harebrained metaphors on this site...... boggles the mind. :rolleyes:
  14. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    That's actually an analogy, and how is that not a perfect analog to Norv? That's not harebrained at all... :-(
  15. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Analogy or metaphor, it's stretched beyond belief.

    First it's body organs, and then it's the KKK........ where is your mind? :eek:
  16. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    it's an analogy, it's not stretched at all... The contrast between her positives and her negatives is intended to highlight the correlation to Norv's positive and negative qualities. The things Norv does well are exceptional, and exactly what you want from an NFL HC. The problem is that the things which he does not do well are deal breakers. If you're going to create a deal breaker for the woman I used to frame the analogy, you kind of have to go big. "She bitches at you when you leave the toilet seat up" just wasn't going to cut it.
  17. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I'd say both your analogy, and your critique of Norv's defects are a bit overblown.
  18. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    You don't think that poor management of subordinate coaches and an inability to effectively make game management decisions are deal breakers for a head coach?
  19. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I saw the same thing from Tom Coughlin, and he just won the Super Bowl..... for the second time.
  20. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Coughlin has won 2 Superbowls based on 3 Christmas miracles. I suppose that therein lies the answer with Norv, pray for divine intervention and a GM who drafts a pass rush.
  21. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Is Norv perfect?........ obviously not. Is he fatally flawed?........ I don't think so.

    Norv has managed to win three playoff games with the Chargers, which shows he's capable of winning in the postseason. You do need a certain amount of good fortune to win in the playoffs...... the Giants were quite fortunate in their two Super Bowl wins. Injuries to both Rivers and LT derailed us one time, and some inexplicable plays doomed us in another. Our luck has been poor, lets face it.

    The biggest thing holding us back in my view hasn't been Norv's coaching, it's been AJ's drafting. 5 straight years of subpar drafting has left this team with some serious holes...... especially on defense. You can fault Norv, if you like, for not taking the team all the way when the roster was loaded, but it's not anymore.

    Fans chant "Super Bowl or Bust" every year, but this team doesn't have the personnel to win a championship as it's currently configured. It's a talent level problem, not a coaching problem that's holding us back now.
  22. Ikeman83
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    I absolutely agree with you that we're riddled with talent black holes, and I also agree with you with regards to the causes of those holes. However, that doesn't excuse the performance of the players who are on the field with regards to execution of basic NFL plays for which coaches should know to provide rookies additional coaching. Norv has exhibited a failure to properly oversee his subordinate coaches, and this manifests itself in poor play by folks not on the offense, and in areas where a position coach should have been told to attend to something in practice that week, knowing inexperienced players would be on the field.

    This is what you get with Norv, offensive genius, and the rest is sloppy as ****. Part of the reason we had a decent, albeit not frightening defense in 2010 was because we had a defensive coordinator who basically did everything Norv should have been doing on the defensive side of the ball.
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  23. Buck Melanoma
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    Tell AJ to draft/acquire some real defensive talent & then see what this team does.

    The majority of the issues aren't on the offensive side of the ball nor with the guy who schemes/coaches it.

    Once again, a thread-worn (pun intended ;) ) conversation from those who can't/won't think past Norv sucks, we'd win with a new HC.
  24. HEXEDBOLT
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    HEXEDBOLT Well-Known Member

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    And a heart transplant!!!!
  25. DenverBolt67
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    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    And when they deserve a pat on the back, I give it to them, you just ignore that because it doesn't fit into your "Defend Norv and attack all those who question him" agenda
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  26. Concudan
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    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    So 1 false start in 4.5 games is bad in your book? Really? Ok, that IS reaching. The worst stat on that list was McNeil who would average 4 false starts a season. Sorry I dont see that as an indication of terrible coaching or play on the line.

    However I agree with you. Though he does make halftime adjustments, they are rarely game changers. I think part of that is becaue he fouses on the O, and he is constatnly adjusting how the O is attcking the D in order to judge how to attack them in the next series. Also clock management is IMHO his weakest point. So we agree there, and that is my point, there is enough to be frustrated about with Norv without over simplifying things as DenverBolt is want to do, or inventing things to support a position of pure angst...
  27. Concudan
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    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    If you say so. Frankly I dont recall ever seeing you give the Chargers a 'pat on the back'. Frankly I think you are just back peddaling now.
  28. Concudan
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    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Boyeee howdy!
  29. DenverBolt67
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    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Frankly, I couldn't care less what you think and the fact is, I HAVE given them a pat on the back when they deserved it. Unfortunately, after 2 straight mediocre years when the teams played uninspired and undisciplined football for at least 3/4 of the games, there hasn't been much to pat them on the back about.
  30. Concudan
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    Sure, if you say so Spanky... You go with that...;)

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