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Did we just suffer our biggest blow of the year? Acee says Norv and AJ may be safe...

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by matilack, Jan 1, 2012.

?

Would you rather have...

  1. Beat the Raiders, and have Norv return for 2012?

    35.7%
  2. Lost to the Raiders, and have Norv fired.

    64.3%
  1. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    and if 2,000 season ticket holders walk, how many more seats will need to be sold to lift blackouts? 2,000, 3,000, 4,000 or 5,000?
     
  2. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Norv and Manusky stay, i'm walking
     
  3. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    If Norv stays and Manusky gets fired, and we hire a COMPETANT PROVEN DC......I will give it some time to think about.

    If Manusky is a Charger in 2012....its over, I'm done, they can move to LA for all I give a ****. I can't have pride in a team that takes pride in an 8-8 season.
     
  4. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Let me alter what I said a touch because I didn't make it clear; i'm walking as a season ticket holder. I'm going to remain a charger fan through and through
     
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  5. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Oh me too, but I'm not going out of my way to watch any games next year. And if they move to LA I'm out altoghether. If Spanos has the pure **** headedness to try and pitch us another season of AJ/Norv/Manusky.....
     
  6. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    I doubt it'll even be 1000. I'll bet we'll only have two blackouts again next year (browns & bucs).
     
  7. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    If we start slow again...as in 1-3, you better damn well believe people are gonna pull the plug.

    The only reason this season wasn't a disaster was because we flukishly started 4-1 beating 4 of the worst teams in the entire NFL.
     
  8. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    By no more then ten points each
     
  9. boltfanatik

    boltfanatik Toxic Minority Member

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    If AJ Norv or Manuersky stay Deano will not get a dime from me. I don't mind listening to games on the Radio. If they stay I see 5 blackouts. Up yours Dean!
     
  10. exodus

    exodus Well-Known Member

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    This whole season blows.
     
  11. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    “Be careful what you ask for. If you don’t like Norv, you’re going to
    have a hard time finding someone who can do what he can do.”
    Jon Gruden. 8 December, 2011

    Though I've never been a Norv fan, as a 4 decades fan of a team that had a losing
    record and few playoff appearances before the modern era, I'm not as furious
    as some of the newer fans at Norv's 61% five year winning percentage.

    Am I convinced that a significant portion of the Chargers' problems this
    season were really Norv's fault? No. (Even the great Rivers just plain failed to execute)

    Am I convinced, re. Gruden's comment, that the Chargers have a replacement
    available that will do better than 61%, no losing seasons and 3 playoff runs? No.
    (History certainly predicts the opposite)

    Am I likely to think that armchair GMs in here really understand the Charger
    coaching situation better than Chargers Rivers, Gates', Hardwick, Dielman etc.? No.
    (I wish I had better access...failing that, these All-Pros carry some weight with me)

    Yes, if a Bill Belichick were the other option, I'd happily trade Norv. I think that
    --like 90% of NFL coaches--Norv is average enough that the strength of his roster
    will mostly determine his record...the impact of HCs is inflated by most casual fans.

    I guess I'm just not adequately hysterical or new to Charger football to scream for Norv's head,
    with no better plan in sight. That said, no, sadly I do acknowledge the power of mindless herds...
    and am watching to see if Spanos folds, as Bronco management bowed to the mindless Tebow-heads.

    [Yes, this IS my bid to be the most unpopular poster of the day!!!] :)
     
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  12. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  13. Savage Lizard

    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

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    I have tolerated Norv, tried to have his back, etc. But at some point whether it's his fault or not, it has to be seen that what he is doing isn't working. It's time to try something different.
     
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  14. Lightning's Girl

    Lightning's Girl Mod Chick =) Staff Member Moderator

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    Lance 19, I've gotta hand it to you: you do make some good points. We've both been around long enough to remember the Harland Svare era, when the Bolts couldn't buy a win, and hell---as great as Don Coryell was, he never took us to the Super Bowl either, even with all the awesomeness of Fouts and Winslow and Joiner and Benirschke and Chandler, et. al.

    Having seen so much worse in the team's history, I didn't really jump on the bandwagon calling for Norv's head until the middle of this season, and while I still think he lacks the passion to take this team to the next level, I have to admit I don't know who his replacement ought to be. Ideally, it would be someone with the fire of a Bill Belechick (whom I loathe, but I have to give him his props as a helluva head coach), the decency and moral leadership of a Tony Dungy, the discipline of a Tom Landry, the aggression of a Tom Flores, and the keen intelligence of a Lovie Smith.

    Tall order, eh? ;) And no, we're not likely to get it for the price the Spanos family will be offering. But as the saying goes, "If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten." Something has to change, whether it's in the front office, coaching staff, or the roster, or all three......otherwise, we're just going to continue down the road to mediocrity, year after year.
     
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  15. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    1) Norv Turner entered a unique situation, he INHERITED a 14-2 team ready made to contend for a Super Bowl. We all knew he was going to win some games, we just didn't want him to drive the Ferarri into the lake.

    2) That 61% winning percentage.....is sloooooowly but surely going down isn't it bud? 3 of the 5 years he's failed to win 60% of his games.

    3) Philip Rivers is a great person, but he needs to pull his head out of his ***. The fact is we haven't won a playoff game since 2008. If you hired a store manager and sales continuously go down after 5 years.......YOU WOULD FIRE THE MANAGER. Don't let the employees talk you into keeping the dead weight manager just because he's their friend, we all love the boss who doesn't hold us accountable and doesn't demand discipline. Norv is a nice guy, the best head coaches are assholes.

    4) There are plenty of options out there right now, and the Chargers are the cream of the coach hiring crop. Just because there are only 2 or 3 big names (who we could easily get if we wanted them) doesn't mean there arn't some hot shot coordinators like Zimmer, Pagano, Fangio, Chudzinski etc... who don't have the cajones to be a HC in this league.

    Heck Sean Payton was the quarterbacks coach for Dallas when he got hired by New Orleans, and now most would argue he's the best play caller in the NFL. Norv has proven time and time again he is incapable of taking this team to the next level, its time to move on.
     
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  16. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Pffffttt!!!......... amateur.

    You forgot to start your post with... "Hey dummies"....... #imjustsaying ;)
     
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  17. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Well, like the "dribbling a football" thing, there's no sure blueprint for Lombardi trophies.
    All you can do is give yourself a shot as many years as possible. In 2009, if Nate doesn't have
    the worst day of his career, the Chargers have as good a chance as anyone to win that Super Bowl.
    Riding an 11 game win streak, no other team was as hot going into the playoffs.

    I'm WITH you on "If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten."
    But from a different angle: What Chargers have "always gotten" (prior to the current regime)
    was a sub .500 record, and seasons in which the playoffs were not even a pipe dream.
    THAT's what being a Charger fan has meant, until recently
    (zero playoffs between '65 & '79, '83 & '93, '95 & 2005)

    So--while I definitely want more success--I'd have to be completely ignorant of Charger history
    to not realize that the current era has been (overall) relatively awesome times. Hell, even the last two seasons
    --which fans (many of whom haven't known a losing season!!) are ready to riot over--
    the team has had a chance until the end. If Rivers doesn't bobble that fluke snap, the Chargers are in.
    Until recently the Chargers were averaging 11-5 records in the AJ era, and fans have been spoiled...
    some seem to think that wearing bolts entitles you to be in the playoffs. What would someone
    apoplectic about narrowly missing the playoffs two seasons in a row, do with a decade of never
    having a realistic shot? So when you warn about the fear of getting "what you've always gotten"
    Hell, I'll take winning 61% of the time and playoffs 60% of the time over 'normal' Charger (sub .500) history
    every time. Everyone said Tom Coughlin would never lead the Giants to a Super Bowl...before he did.

    I don't think Norv is Vince Lombardi or some amazing coach. But his Charger record, his decision-making,
    his high esteem from this team all say he isn't a bad coach. So, if you're going to anger your best players
    by sacking him, you better have someone absolutely clearly better ready to sign...
    and I'm not aware that they do. All in all, the Chargers have been IN the playoffs, or very, very close
    for 5 out of 5 seasons under Norv (despite diminishing talent, and no top 10 draft picks).
    Any long-time Charger fan knows how very, very, very remarkable that is. So who's right?
    The armchair quarterbacks, or Rivers? I happen to agree with Rivers.
     
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  18. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    We've been over this Mat:

    1) Anyone who saw the 14-2 team knows it wasn't a great team. It overachieved, was "one and done"
    in the playoffs, and THEN lost it's OC AND DC!!! No new coach was going to take that team to 14-2 again,
    under those conditions...especially with LT and Gates being a year older.

    2) How many 5 year blocks have the Chargers won more than 61% of their games? I know you pride yourself
    on not knowing Charger history, but put a few minutes into providing yourself with a bit of perspective...

    3) Wow! Are you really setting up YOUR opinion vs. a QB of Rivers' stature...who has spent thousands
    of hours around Norv on the practice field, film room and stadiums? Really? Philip's as competitive as they
    come: He's never said Norv should stay because he's "nice" or "a friend," he says it because he wants to win.
    Honestly, any other little theories that you make up are worthess. The Charger offense has been one of the
    best 2 or 3 in the league over those 5 years. THAT's why Rivers wants him here.

    4) There's a million options out there. That doesn't mean they're going to be as successful.
    Nobody was saying the Saints scored a big coup (at the time) hiring Sean Payton...because it was a crapshoot...
    one of the few that paid off. Do you remember Kevin Gilbride? That's how it usually goes.
    The Chargers have had 14 head coaches. I was a fan during all of them
    (I still remember the Union-Tribune headline: "Sid Sacked!" though I was practically a zygote)
    and I assure you, none of the other 13 won as consistently as Norv. You could look that up too.
    You and I are both frustrated the Chargers didn't have a better season.
    I just think that you--and most fans--are scapegoating the wrong guy. It's the easy answer.
     
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  19. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    You know what i just realized? We fired a head coach that was 14-2 and lost in the playoffs, but we keep a head coach who for the past 2 years has failed to get us into the playoffs, am i the only one thinking that someone of higher authority "dean spanos" is on drugs
     
  20. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    It's nice in theory, but Dean gets paid from the media deal regardless of whether we're blacked out every game next season or not - the deal's inked and the owners share revenue across the board.
     
  21. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    I'm gonna guess that you're too young to have been paying much attention to the details
    of Marty's firing, but no, his horrible, horrible playoff record was NOT the principal reason
    he was shown the door. And he certainly wasn't 14-2 every year, either...
    despite Norv's recent mediocrity, his Charger winning % is still higher than Marty's was
    (and all 12 of the other men who have ever led the Chargers)
     
  22. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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  23. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Well, having interacted with you before, I know that admitting that you're wrong
    is NOT one of your strengths. So I'll briefly address your (silly) 'points,' and then
    you're on your own...you'll have to argue it by yourself...I've learned people that don't
    grow via interaction and exposure to facts are not worth endlessly jawing with. No offense. ;)

    1) Feel free to pretend that that was a solid 14-2. It obviously wasn't. And even if it were, you
    (wisely?) ignored all the other circumstances that made another 14-2 season virtually impossible.

    2) You babbled. Probably didn't look anything up. Regardless, you chickened out on answering...
    (again, some would say it's wise not to admit you're on the wrong side of the facts...but I think it just makes you look small)

    3) Your reading comprehension needs work: I obviously did NOT say 'Norv' wants to win: the context makes clear
    I was referring to Rivers. So now we need to decide: Is Rivers saying that the coach who has made his offense
    one of the very best in the NFL should stay because Rivers is competitive and likes to win (yes!), or because
    Rivers is just a sentimental old softy who cares more about Norv's feelings than winning (Mat's ridiculous theory) ?
    Let's put it to a vote.

    4) Again, brush up on your reading skills. Norv's won 61% of his Charger games over his 5 seasons. Period.
    More than any other Charger head coach. Ever. You can keep trying to spin that, but it's still the reality.
    Some seasons have obviously been better than others (like for ALL coaches) but the winning % is irrefutable.
    Thus, he has won more consistently than the other 13 men. Trying to shift the definition of "consistent"
    because the numbers refute your positions is weak...and silly. Again, live through a decade of no playoffs,
    THEN tell me how outrageous being in the playoff race 5 times out of 5 (and IN 60% of the time) is.
    I'll just cry my eyes out for you Mat.

    p.s. Honestly, you argue so badly and illogically, that I'd be WORRIED if you DID like me!
    The Matilack Seal of Approval is about as desirable as a politician getting an endorsement from NAMBLA.
    If this season were Norv's fault, I'd be the first to throw him under the bus. But I don't believe you
    crucify the winningest coach in Charger history just because you're whiny and hysterical. I'm a little
    more invested in this team than you are Matty. I want to win. You just want change and someone to blame.
    I only want change if it's an improvement. Don't bother responding...I won't read it. You've used up my patience.
     
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  24. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX Well-Known Member

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    Norv needs to be held accountable. Whether or not a "improvement" is out there is not the problem at the moment. Problem is that Norv isn't being held accountable which he needs to be.
     
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  25. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    LOL :giggle: oh forget it. Refer to my previous posts if you want my opinions on all this nonsense, we will never agree on this subject and I have better things to do than to repeat myself.
     
  26. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    So what is "accountable" re. the Charger head coach with the best winning percentage of all time?
    I'm guessing you're thinking of a giant fruit and muffin basket, with lightning bolts all over. :)

    The other part is just opinion: Maybe to YOU "improvement" isn't very important. I respect that position.

    I also 100% disagree. The only justification in my book for making such a drastic change
    (especially when it involves humiliating a coach your star players have publicly said they want to keep!)
    is that it improves the team. Increases the chances of success. Change, just to say you did
    --regardless of the quality of the product on the field--is pointless posturing, in my book.
     
  27. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Dude come on, we don't exactly have a long history of winning here.
     
  28. ThunderHorse17

    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

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    Actualy if you want to get down right technical Norv was AJs hire. AND so that would mean AJ should be held accountable for hiring such a sucky coach right??
    I kno Johny remembers the REAL reason Marty was shown the door in such a impromtu fashion.

    OYEA I forgot you can hold Norv accountable for the past 5 years of coaching staff. Oyea the good ones got away. At least they are employed or promoted (RR case in point) Even TC was a Norv hire. BUT who hired THIS GUY <---?? THATS RIGHT aj Smith!! We can also go further up the ladder, but imo after Spanos Senior became too ill to Dementia and left Dean the Ranch shiz has gotten faster and faster on a downward spiral. FOURTUNATLY I am new to the team in terms of winning and losing seasons. BUT I can look around and name you 16 other teams I am VERY GLAD I didnt pick for my favorite of all time. 4 of which have NEVER been in the post season in the last 20 years!! HOORAY for HOUS not jus gettin there because of a Manningless Colts, but they got the Ws go go with their FIRST ever appearance in a post season.

    Ranting now and capitalizing way too many words lol. BUT it is nice to know that some ppl have finaly let the 2011 season go and are calming down.

    'sides Dean already said hes gonna sleep on it for a few days. *TRANSLATION* He has a plan and it doesnt involve a fast move.


    Oh and Matty, I think its Hope not fear that is driving the few of us to conclude that its better to have a better replacement for Norv than to roll the dice ONCE AGAIN on another Coach that will take 1-2 years to even give us a idea of what he can/cant do.

    Why cant we hope for the next year to bring something different?

    Holy shi... am I still in this thread....AND posting....
     
  29. ThunderHorse17

    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

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    S...M...H...
     
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  30. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    so the fans in stands do not have an impact? Do you know how money is lost by 1,000 season ticket holders not returning?
     

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