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Do NOT Play For The Win!

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Lance19, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. Lance19
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    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Dear Mike McCoy,

    Please reconsider your approach.

    You said today:
    “I’ll take any day to make a team go 94 yards in a two-minute situation,
    and put it on our defense to make a stop.”


    This is a sensible plan if:

    A) One has a solid, proven defense (which everyone knows this club [470.7 ypg] does not have at this time)...and:

    B) The plan does not depend on a guy who was out of work Tuesday morning
    (Crezdon Butler...zero starts in his 4th season, on 5 teams) making a big play in the end zone 5 days later to secure the win.

    It's one thing to not try for a 1st down, and punt...if your defense has earned a reputation for big stops...
    but to not let a QB who is 20 of 24 passing, try a short, safe pass, because you hope that one of the
    league's most injured, porous defenses (only the Redskins are worse!!) can suddenly be counted on...damn...

    Maybe if/when this defense gels...and gets back Butler & Te'o & Ingram, etc.,
    and can actuallystop somebody...then the turtle strategy may be effective.
    But yesterday was no time to put all our eggs in a basket that currently has such obvious, gigantic holes...


    31st.jpg
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
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  2. Joy Division
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    Joy Division Slightly-known Member

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    I thought Butler had great position and technically he was interfered with, but they (Titans) had been
    getting some bad calls going against them throughout the game, so maybe the refs felt a non-call was
    the best call in that situation.
    IF Gilly hadn't dropped the game-clinching INT, McCoy would have had clear evidence to back up
    his asinine comment. Unfortunately..."It is what it is."(I felt it appropriate at this time, to use this incredibly vapid,
    stupid, and unoriginal phrase that usually sports "analysts" utter, when they cannot construct a proper thought,
    retort or sentence).
    Is it the bye week yet?
  3. Pointyearedog
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    Pointyearedog BoltTalker

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    I always thought that "It is what it is" was an AJ Smith Idiom...
  4. Pointyearedog
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    Pointyearedog BoltTalker

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    However, you are right about Butler and the non-call. Also right about Butler being thrown in because of injuries to our other secondary guys, literally a trial by fire situation. Coach should have never let the defensive situation get so out of hand. You can't put in paper lions and expect them to play like real ones. I do like Addae's play, though... He's a scrapper, likes to hit.
  5. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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  6. Lance19
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    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Joy, I couldn't possibly agree your point or phrasing more. (I'd add the relatively light contact & rarity of offensive PI calls in general, too)
    Pointy, I think you're "on point" as well:

    Yes, under the circumstances, I thought Crezdon (yeah, usually I'd use the guy's surname, but I don't want any confusion, here)
    did pretty well...and he was trying to get an offensive PI flag...and justifiably so...though it's no surprise it didn't come.
    We've all known that our defensive starters are a pretty mediocre bunch on good days...add lack of depth
    & the key injuries and, well, that's how you get to be 31st out of 32 (and one could argue that they've played over their heads, so far)

    It pains me to admit this state of our defense, but it's true. And if I can see that taking the game from Rivers,
    to put it in the hands of a currently very, very troubled defense is a recipe for losing...then why can't McCoy?


    p.s. Even McCoy's "94 yards" comment seems disingenuous:
    McCoy had no way of knowing if--after a punt & return--the Titans
    would be beginning at the 10, 20 or 50.

    p.p.s. I believe the first use of "It is what it is" ("Είναι ό, τι είναι") was by Crito, to Socrates in 399 b.c.e.
  7. Fossil
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    Fossil BoltTalker

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    I agree wholeheartedly with the OP's take.
    On the Locker's game winning bomb: To my eye Crezdon was out of position by being in front of a much taller receiver as they headed into the endzone and also mistimed his jump.
    But hats off to Crezdon for coming off the street a few days earlier and even lining up in that game. Holy s4it that's a lot to ask. What's next? Stadium PA announcers asking that anyone with high school DB experience please report to the Charger's locker room?
  8. HEXEDBOLT
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    HEXEDBOLT Well-Known Member

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    HAHAHA, I mentioned McCoy going turtle in the game day thread and now appears. I love it, would make a great avi!
  9. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    It just really speaks to how important the 25 yards worth of penalties before the half were. 7 point play on the OPI/Unsportsmanlike Conduct.

    I was really surprised when they punted, especially since Scifres had already shanked 2 punts in the game. The winning play was to go for the win. Even if we'd failed, they'd have had to drive 50 yards and get a TD. I think that what compounds this is how effective their receivers had been against us all day. If they make up the 40 yds of field position in 3 plays, what's the difference?
  10. robdog
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    robdog Code Monkey Staff Member Administrator

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    Our defense should of stepped up during that last drive. I mean 94 yards and the D has a chance to end the game. What defense doesn't want to be in that situation. Heck, we almost had a pick(should of) that would of ended the game... So hurtful.
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  11. Lance19
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    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Rob, I agree, I WANT the D to be confident and eager.

    But McCoy's job is to figure out which course gives the Chargers the best chance to win:
    One of the most successful short passing games in the league, or the next to worst defense.

    Not only did he make the worst choice...and piss away a good effort by the team...
    but afterwards he suggested that we can expect more of that illogical decision making. :(


    p.s. And remember, McCoy had no idea that the Titans would be starting on their 6...
    the 20, 30 or 40 was more likely when McCoy made that choice.
  12. Concudan
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    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I have to agree with Lance19. To put the game in the hands of the D, when they have been incapable of actually stopping a drive with any regularity was a poor coaching decision. You play to your strengths, or you play Madden in January.
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  13. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    Yeah at some point you have to say "this is Jake Locker, not Peyton Manning." And ask the defense to step up rather than risk a sack or INT behind the 2012 o-line.

    And if Gilchrist makes that catch as he absolutely should have...this thread doesn't exist right now. McCoy can't catch the damn ball for him.
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  14. Concudan
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    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    There are a lot of IFs we can play for that quarter alone. IF Freeny had made a play, IF the D could cover, IF we hadnt given up on the offensive drive...

    What I hope is taken away by the Coaches is they dont rely on their weakest unit to win a game, they rely on their strongest. If they dont take that lesson, well we will get a high draft pick...
  15. Lance19
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    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    And at some point you have to say "this is Marcus Gilchrist, (or Crezdon Butler) not Ed Reed."
    The first 2.9 games clearly showed that this D can't be counted on (no matter how hard we might wish otherwise) to stop anyone.

    Obviously McCoy can't catch the damn ball for him...but it is his job to understand who he's counting on...
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  16. HEXEDBOLT
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    HEXEDBOLT Well-Known Member

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    There has been improvement with each game, albeit, not on the scoreboard and until most of the bugs are cleaned up disappointment may be in order. I'm looking to see the real Bolts around game 6 and beyond, those that can't play should be weeded out by then or at least I hope so. It's either going to come together or the wheels are going to fall off, any middle ground will be shaky at best.
  17. Lance19
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    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Hex, I've actually been pleasantly surprised by how well are Bolts have played, so far.

    One doesn't have to be a Homer to say that this team could very easily be 3-0, though they've mostly been underdogs.

    I started this thread because while there's much to be optimistic about...
    one or two irrational 4th quarter decisions can undo so much good play. And make a team feel hopeless.
    (btw, I give McCoy kudos for having the team fired up to start games...much better in that respect than Norv)

    Nobody's saying that--in some cases--McCoy's strategy couldn't be appropriate:
    If Weeden was my lousy QB, and I had the Seattle pass defense: Hell yeah! Put the game in the hands of the defense!

    But for some reason McCoy trusted Marcus Gilchrist & Crezdon Butler more than Philip Rivers...
    with disastrous (but entirely predictable) results.


    p.s. Remember that at the time C. Butler--never a starter--had been a Charger less than 5 days,
    while Rivers' passer rating was 2nd only to P. Manning...better than Brady, or Brees or Rodgers.
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2013
  18. HEXEDBOLT
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    HEXEDBOLT Well-Known Member

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    It's always the little things or so they say. McCoy did go turtle lets hope he learned from that and he sure as hell should know what brings the best opportunity for victory.
  19. HEXEDBOLT
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    HEXEDBOLT Well-Known Member

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    Hey Blue, would it be alright if I used this as an avatar???? I don't know how to do this stuff but I think it's great!
  20. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Sure, lets hope it's not too appropriate though. ;)
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  21. HEXEDBOLT
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    HEXEDBOLT Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. Hope I didn't ruin your work trying to re-size it.
  22. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    And the last 2 years proved this O-line can't be counted on buddy.

    Sure, our impeccable 20/20 hindsight being as it is, maybe we should have pushed the envelope with Rivers....and possibly he'd thrown a pick (like in week 1) or gotten sack/fumbled people would be whining about how McCoy trusted Mike Harris and and Jeromey Clary over a defense that in reality had only given up 13 points through 58 minutes. Keeping in mind the Titans would have to drive the length of the field for 6 (not just a FG).

    Yes we have some exceptional hindsight head coaches here.
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2013
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  23. Lance19
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    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Matty, I know it's not like you wait to know what you're talking about, to insult someone,
    but it isn't "exceptional hindsight."
    It was my position at the time (see screen capture, below, if you weren't following the
    "Official Game Day Thread: Chargers @ Titans - 9/22" thread during the game).


    I'd correct you and say it was closer to "exceptional foresight" except that I really don't think
    one needs t0 be that insightful to realize that the league's #2 rated passer is a smarter bet ,
    with the game on the line, than the league's #31 rated defense. Baseless accusation noted, though. :)


    Screen Shot 2013-09-25 at 12.37.20 PM.png
  24. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    So our options were...trust the O-line that was the worst in the NFL the last 2 years and a QB whos turnover ratio suffered immensely because of it...Or trust the defense that was poor the first 2 weeks but ultimatley had only given up 1 TD on the day...to stop a 90+ yard TD drive by a barely mediocre QB. Sorry but I'll take my chances the latter any day, hindsight/foresight it makes no difference. So you say McCoy should know who's he's counting on...I agree.

    Honestly I think there's a good chance we'd have lost either way, but we'll never know.
  25. Lance19
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    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Well, this is the last time I'm gonna address you on this because you seem determined
    to doggedly defend a silly position--and no, I also don't like being accused of fictional 'hindsight'--
    and if you can't see that a QB with a 116.2 passer rating in this system is a better bet than the league's
    worst defense (except only the truly horrible Redskins...worst in NFL since 1966!) then all I'll say is that, as
    cheesed-off as I am at McCoy this week, at least you aren't in any position of power. :)
  26. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    If the starting O-line had been around I might agree, but as you say McCoy has to know who he's counting on, and he clearly didn't have faith in Clary, Harris, Ohrnberger, and Troutman protecting Rivers.

    Funny you say that, as the man who is in power made the same "silly" decision I would have.

    Definition of silly being "any opinion other than Lance's"
  27. robdog
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    robdog Code Monkey Staff Member Administrator

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    Need to make some specific for the avatars here. :) Maybe just a head shot???
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  28. robdog
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    robdog Code Monkey Staff Member Administrator

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    I think he did figure out the best course that gives the Charges the best chance to win. If you told me before the game started that the Titans would have to drive 94 yards, with Jack Locker, AND have to score a TD, I would of thought that is the BEST possible situation to be in.

    To be honest, I really feel like our coaching has been AMAZING considering the tools they have to work with. I went into this season just hoping for a good draft pick, but I go into every game thinking we should come out with a W now. (well maybe not against the Broncos, but still! :p)
  29. Lance19
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    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Well, I obviously thought that the choice was overwhelmingly to keep the ball
    (we had no idea they'd have to go 94 yards...usually it would be less)
    at the time...and when the defense lost the game, to my way of thinking,
    that was the proof that McCoy had made the wrong call.
    And, actually, the longer I look at it, the more depressed I am that he says he'd do it again.

    However, yes, I feel good about some other aspects...especially that the Chargers seem
    to be coming out of the gate fully awake and strong. I never understood why the Chargers
    were such slow starters with Norv. (and I'm not one to blame every little thing on Norv)

    On the other side, watching the endzone cams (on NFL "Rewind") it's very distressing to see that our blocking schemes--so far-- are opening virtually no holes for our running backs. Almost everything Mathews and
    Woodhead have gotten, was on their own extra effort...that just can't go on. No back can be successful
    without bigger lanes than we've created the first 3 games.
  30. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    It needs to be square in format....... I'll try cropping it down for you.

    OK, try this for size....

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2013

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