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ESPN Draft Lab: NT's

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by matilack, Jan 22, 2010.

  1. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Articles from ESPN Insider on Terrance Cody and Dan Williams
    http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/insider/news/story?id=4618676

    I'd love to post the whole article if allowed, but here is the rundown.

    Terrance Cody
    TFS Lab Result: Cody's size, strength and ability to draw a double-team are impressive, but his subpar metric performance and the overriding concerns about his endurance give him a qualified TFS overhyped grade. If a team takes him in the second round with the idea that he is a two-down space-eater who can plug run gaps, he's a good fit. If a team takes him in the first round with the idea that he will be an every-down nose tackle, that would be a mistake.



    Dan Williams
    The Football Scientist Lab Result: Williams may be a high-maintenance coaching project but the on-field upside is tremendous and makes it worth the effort. He gets a TFS seal of approval as long as he is picked up by a team that has a fire and brimstone motivator ready to work with him from day one.
     
  2. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    The whole article tells the story better, but basically they DESTROYED Terrance Cody, and said "eh ok" to Dan Williams.

    Neither guy seems like a lock to replace Jamal, but I've now completely lost faith that Cody can do #$%! in the NFL after reading this.
     
  3. IFiredCHart

    IFiredCHart Well-Known Member

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    Good, as we have two very good, raw NT prospects in OG and Vaughn. OG may be more suited to being a run-stuffing DE in a 3-4 scheme, but Vaughn's raw power, agility, and smarts make his upside to be limitless--potentially the best NT in the NFL.

    I do not want to waste a pick on a guy who is simply "big"--Vaughn and OG are big, have moves, and both showed admirable play throughout the course of last season. :abq1:
     
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  4. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    How many nose tackles are three down pluggers? Seriously?
    Not Casey Hampton, not Vince Wilfork, not Ted Washington (when he played a 3-4), not Kelly Gregg.

    To be honest its a biased article. While I agree he has some questions regarding his conditioning, he's a guy with a very defined set of skills. He clogs the middle and takes on blockers. And he excells at it. When asked to be a pass rusher or do things outside his normal skill set he's not very good. Is Jamal a very good pass rusher? Has he ever been or has his bread and butter been to swallow the middle and occupy blockers?

    I feel like the guy might have a point if Cody was a 4-3 DT but few people look at him and think he should be just a 4-3 DT.

    Vaughn has all the skills to do both but based on his size he could be a marvellous 3-4 NT with some special pass rushing skills (think the best of Cody with a one gap penitrator's skills). Still I'm not sure what to do with him. OG I have no idea what to do with him but he's not a NT. I think Scott would be a better fit.
     
  5. IFiredCHart

    IFiredCHart Well-Known Member

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    OG shows skills similar to those of Cesaire with more upside--good penetration ability with good run-stopping skills, to boot. He is big enough to overpower O-lineman 1-on-1 and can plug the B-gap or C-gap with regularity.

    I would lump him in with Travis Johnson as a good 3-4 DE, with the potential to be very good with refinement.
     
  6. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I might be ok with a reach on Dan Williams, but I absolutely would not spend a 1st round pick on Terrance Cody, he's ranked the 52nd overall player on ESPN, 53rd on CBSsports. He's basically a half effort need to be motivated type player who could be a real liability late in games. Assuming Jamal comes back, and that the coaches are trying to develop Vaughn Martin into a true NT, I think we can wait 1 more year before drafting a nosetackle.



    Next year's potential NT's that we will be talking about...
    Jerrell Powe- 6'2 340 Mississippi
    Kendrick Ellis- 6'4 340 Hampton
    Phil Taylor- 6'4 355 Baylor
     
  7. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Haven't we played this game before where we thought we could last one more year. Well at 34 and coming off one more major injury, I think time's officially up
     
  8. IFiredCHart

    IFiredCHart Well-Known Member

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    Anteater, you do not trust Vaughn?

    Some of the best NTs are the mid-late rounders (like Ratliff), and Jamal was a supplementary pick, himself.

    I think VM has a very bright future, but we need more of a bridge to take us through his development. Hell, I would not even mind one more year of a platoon with Jamal, Vaughn, and Scott, which would allow him to get gradual experience to settle into the position.

    I think Jamal is done as a full-time starter, but he will be able to contribute next year. I would rather spend the draft pick we get for Cro on a real football player instead of a big space-eater whose work ethic is questionable, at best.

    Want a value NT pick? Linval Joseph should be available in R5 out of ECU and has the size and athleticism to be a very good project.
     
  9. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Well in the 09' draft we picked up a guy who is 6'3 330lbs and benched 44 reps on his pro day.....I think it would be an awful waste if we burned a 1st round pick on Cody only to find out that Martin is the guy we were waiting for all along.

    And like you said, NT is a 2 down position, and Martin is in considerably better shape than Cody, so he and Jamal will rack up most of the playing time next year while Cody rides the bench.

    Lastly we have no future replacement for LT. Any RB we draft will make an instant contribution in 2010 and build the position for the future, meaning it'd be smart to take the most talented one we can get in the 1st round.:yes:
     
  10. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    It's not that I don't trust Vaughn Martin so much as I'm not sure if he'd make a better DE, something the coaching staff has noted already. And I also think it might still be very optimistic to believe a canadian football player would be fully ready to man one of the most important spots on the team after just one year.

    While I agree that Jamal is done as a full time player, that basically makes it imperative we find a full time nose tackle immediately. We managed to get by based on good coaching, good acquisition of players and a good system. How we did it last year is not how you wanna do it period. If Vaughn is seriously sincerely ready to be a nose tackle (and we don't know) then I might agree in getting a late rounder and letting Vaughn-Jamal-Scott work into a rotation.

    I just think its very optimistic to assume he's ready after one year.

    And I do also agree we need a running back. But I'm not as enamored of most of the first round selections as others are when I think guys like Mathhews and Gerhardt are the better choices
     
  11. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I'd be perfectly happy with Mathews in the 2nd round, but I think he's a top 40 guy meaning we'd have to make a trade to get him if we didn't take him at 28.

    If he has a good combine we'd really be pushing it by waiting.
     
  12. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    Skills that he has acquired over a very long career. Skills that make him a nightmare for people like you.
     
  13. IFiredCHart

    IFiredCHart Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, but people want Vaughn to work harder to be a top-tier NT in this league next season, which is unfair.

    He already works around the clock!
     
  14. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    Did you really take that post seriously? :lol:

     
  15. IFiredCHart

    IFiredCHart Well-Known Member

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    Nope, I responded to your movie quote with one of my own :).

    (Look for "I already work around the clock!" on YouTube from the movie Extraordinary Measures)
     
  16. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    Oh yeah.

    I've seen the previews. :lol:
     
  17. IFiredCHart

    IFiredCHart Well-Known Member

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    Seriously, the quote doesn't even begin to explain how corny and schmaltzy the movie is :lol:.

    But I guess my sentiment concerning the draft is this: AJ and Dean always seem to target a group of positions, not just one, and pick the player with the most potential from among them. If they think Cody is a diamond in the rough, he could very well be a Bolt, but I would not be shocked if they decided to draft for value, instead.

    If we skip on Cody, I will have all of the faith in the world that it will be because management does not think he will ever become an elite NT.
     
  18. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    I guess we can eliminate him from our list. Neither Norv or Rivers are fire and brimstone type guys
     
  19. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    The Chargers themselves said he was expected to play DE not NT when he was drafted. That could have changed, but when he was drafted, he wasn't drafted to be Jamal's replacement
     
  20. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Senior Bowl updates on Terrance Cody....by Todd McShay.

    - Alabama NT Terrence Cody is showing a lack of balance today, getting knocked off his feet by a down-block during double-team drills.
    - Alabama NT Terrence Cody is providing nothing in 1-on-1 pass rush drills. His lack of moves is really showing up today.
    - Alabama NT Terrence Cody has to show the endurance to be effective for the entire practice. He looked pretty bad while weighing in at 370 pounds, and there are enough concerns about his weight and discipline that his stock could start taking a big hit.


    This is over the last 3 days, the guy is a fat brainless pus*y, we don't need him.
     
  21. IFiredCHart

    IFiredCHart Well-Known Member

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    Matilack, do you have any scouting reports on Cam Thomas? I saw him as a great potential R7 steal, but it appears he is moving up draft boards like wildfire.

    He has the NT build, and his prowess is catching the eyes of some scouts.

    In other news, Danario Alexander dropped into R5, but when I read the reason why, he reminds me very much of the type of receiver who thrives in our system.

     
  22. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Got another update on Cody from Kiper and McShay....

    Alabama DT Terrence Cody -- We understand Cody's potential to be a space-eater inside, but his sloppy build and lack of consistent effort are hard to ignore. Cody had a hard time splitting double-teams on Day 3 and was knocked off-balance several times by the down blocker, which raises question about his overall core strength. And while his role will obviously be as an interior run-stuffer Cody offers nothing as a pass-rusher. He can be an effective bull rusher at times but he doesn't stay low enough to generate a lot of push so offensive linemen are able to sink and anchor against him, and when that happens he has no countermove. At this point we would have a hard time using even a second-round pick on a guy who is going to give you limited snaps over the course of a game because of his weight and one-dimensional game.
     
  23. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I can't find anything on Thomas except that he's 6'3 330lbs and wears it well, and that he's gone from 7th round potential steal to on the radar in the 4th and 5th round.

    As soon as something comes out I'll post it.:tup:
     
  24. wrbanwal

    wrbanwal Well-Known Member

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  25. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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  26. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Or maybe you could listen to someone who has seen him play for a change.

    Nah - you guys already know it all. I'll keep my thoughts to myself.

    Have fun.
     
  27. IFiredCHart

    IFiredCHart Well-Known Member

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    Awww, come on :( I value play on the field more than measurables.
     
  28. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Who do you know thats actually seen him play?:icon_shrug: I didn't claim I knew anything about him, all I know is the one sentence proscout.com had on him.

    If you have nothing to contribute you might as well keep your thoughts to yourself, better for everyone.:yes:
     
  29. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    I've seen him play. I live in VA & have seen him a few times vs. UVA & Virginia Tech.

    Since people like you seem to know so much without having seen sh.it, I put my draft thoughts on boards where the folks who don't know squat at least admit it & listen to the ones who can actually contribute.

    So bite my ***.
     
  30. IFiredCHart

    IFiredCHart Well-Known Member

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    When I see players play, I muse about them, and when I do not, I ask others for input. I judge based upon what I see, not what Mel Kiper, Todd McShay, or other talking heads think.

    Seriously, no need to be an elitist prick in the absence of not actually having an insightful opinion.
     

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