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Free Agency 2013

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by SuperCharger92, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    It is?

    I realize the "next year's class is stronger" argument gets thrown around a lot, but in terms of edge-rushers this class is a actually pretty weak - and incredibly weak by comparison of just the seniors that come out next year. Look, I'm a massive Oregon fan, and a supporter of The Mantis (Jordan), but comparing him to Aldon Smith is just wrong. Smith had considerably better developed pass-rushing moves, was much more explosive, and had only marginally lesser "suddenness"/quick twitch ability. Dion, particularly with his coverage ability, compares much more favorably to the guy Smith replaced, Manny Lawson, or even the guy Lawson replaced, Julian Peterson.
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  2. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Unlucky like Mathews?

    Long might return to his old form, but it's more likely that his recent history is an indicator of what you can expect going forward. Far be it for me to tell anyone else not to be optimistic. ;)
  3. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    No way, Smith was basically a lanky 3-tech at Missouri with zero lateral quickness, played way too high against the run, and had little or no experience covering WRs. When Jordan fills out his frame in an NFL weight room he's likely to be around 265 too, and if he's a little unpolished in his pass rush its because Oregon didn't let him loose enough, not because he doesn't have the ability. The only question I have with Jordan is durability.

    I think its a well rounded draft in terms of outside rushers, I have Jordan, Werner, and Moore at the top (despite his piss poor combine), Jones, Mingo, Ansah, and Okafor in the mid to late 1st, Collins, Lemonier, Carradine, and Washington in the 2nd round, and some interesting developmental guys with questions later on like Jenkins, Buchanan,Williams, and Q Smith.

    As far as other positions there is still a small chance the doubt about Lotulelei allows him to fall, and there is a lot of talent at other positions in the later on in the 1st like Sheldon Richardson, Arthur Brown, X Rhodes, Desmond Trufant, Manti Te'o, Matt Elam, and one of my favorites Kenny Vaccaro.

    We don't have a hope in hell of landing any of the first rounders I just named because our hands are tied at LT.
  4. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    Not comparable, Long didn't have injury issues right out of the gate, as I said the man was one of the best in the game and not just for 1 or 2 years.

    Mathews....eh...I'm still holding out some hope, broken bones don't concern me as much as the soft tissue injuries. Although 2 broken clavicles in 5 months is completely unheard of.
  5. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    China doll...... and Mathews had injury issues in college too. And he's a fumbler to boot. ;)

    All I'm saying, is if a guy has successive seasons with injuries, then don't be surprised if that becomes the new normal for the guy.
  6. Duffman57
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    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    LOL, you have no idea what Smith looked like. Smith played DT a majority of the time at Mizzou, he was alright against the run, bu there was questions about his ability to play in space.

    Washington doesn't deserve even the slightest bit of ground to be mentioned in the 2nd, dont think Lemonier does either personally, maybe 3rd-4th. I'm scared as all hell of Jamie Collins, he's either the most inconsistent player i've seen, Raw but dominant when he uses good technique or just strait up lazy and only tries every once in a while. Okafor isn't all that great of a pass rusher, Carradine is coming off an ACL tear. Werner is really questionable, not a high first, nor is Moore, both have big Athleticism questions.

    I'm as big of an Oregon fan as it comes, but really, i just dont see all that great of a pass rusher in him. He could be, but he may actually be best off as a SOLB in a 43 even. He's freakishly athletic, but his burst isn't all that special.
  7. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    Watch the Smith tape again bud, you and I both know most if not all of of his pressure came from inside, he was almost clumsy looking when he tried to change direction, there was very little to suggest he was going to be a good edge rusher.

    You're nit picking too much on Werner, I'd rather have a great football player than a track star with a helmet, and Werner is a safe pick due to his relentless pursuit and great finishing ability. He's going to be a 12-15 sack guy and a defensive leader for years to come, one of those guys that gets GM's fired for passing on.

    With Demontre Moore its easy to jump off the bandwagon after the workout, I totally get that (his 40 and bench improved at his pro day), but the kid was a monster in college and at one point was the #1 ranked player in this draft by those draft boards you're clearly taking to heart. Given the maturity questions he's not as safe as Werner and Jordan, but I would absolutely take him in the top 20 and make sure he gets his *** in the weight room.

    Carradine, ACL injuries are not as serious as they used to be we all know this. And on tape (I've said this here before) he's a better player than Melvin Ingram was IMHO. A late 2nd early 3rd round pick would be worth it even if his rookie year end up being a redshirt year, long term this guy is going to be a player.
  8. Duffman57
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    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    Clearly taking to heart? I haven't looked at another person's rankings in a long time. I watch players and make my own opinions.

    DaMontre Moore never really impressed me. He put up a lot of big sack numbers, but other than that there's nothing about his game to really love other than hustle and handwork. His burst isn't good, his speed is awful. He reminds me a bit of a younger Phillips with a better motor.

    I do like Werner, he reminds me a lot of the guy that LBC originally compared him to in Ryan Kerrigan. But i dont know, there's just something i keep coming back to that makes me think that he's not all that special of an NFL player, i cant really put my finger on it, but he concerns me every time i watched him. He was MUCH better when he played at a lighter weight.
  9. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    Back on the FA topic...it's looking like the Broncos and Dumervil may get a divorce.:tup: As long as he doesn't go to Oakland or KC I'm very happy with this news.

    I don't know that I'd want to break the bank for him, but man that would be a shot to the bow of the Broncos.
  10. Duffman57
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    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    Forgot about the Aldon Smith part. I actually just did a little bit ago. He's awkward in space, but when you actually watch him, he's absolutely elite at quickly weaving and finding space in between blocks to shoot gaps, which is something that has really helped him in the pros. You didn't see quite the same quick burst off the snap, and since he didn't play a whole lot outside, you didn't get to see that speed to power move that is his trademark move now.

    I'm actually a huge supporter of Carradine, but there are quite a few questions with him, and he really may need a "Redshirt" year while he's recovering, as he really may not be ready for the start of the season reportedly, which is a really tough thing to gamble on.

    This is a good class for pass rushers, it really is, but look at next years class, we all know Clowney is a manchild, and will be a constant pro bowler barring injury, Barr is a Von Miller like athlete, that hasn't put it together yet on the field, yet still put up like 12 sacks, Van Noy is a monster, but needs to add weight, Jeffcoat is a great athlete, and if he can come back from the knee injury, he'll have no problems as a 1st rounder, Gayle is another elite athlete that needs to put it all together, Trent Murphy is a Paul Kruger clone, Prince Shembo is really really good, and then Kareem Martin, Morgan Breslin, Ben Gardener, Ryne Giddens are all interesting, and that is just all the guys that are for sure in this class (Sr.'s plus Clowney).

    Juniors include Scott Crighton who's really good, Adrian Hubbord is a difference maker, Stephen Tuitt is the best DE/DT to come out in a long time, Symour clone, and there's quite a few others who could be real impact players.
  11. Duffman57
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    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    Not sure if he'd require a break the bank deal or not. But i'd REALLY love to have the guy...
  12. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    Clowney (if he doesn't tear his ACL) is going to be the 1st overall pick next year so he doesn't even really count (god forbid we're the worst team in the league this year). I do like Barr a lot. But I honestly don't see much difference with that spread of pass rushers and the ones I just gave you, other than Clowney anchoring at the top. Some of those guys will disappoint and fall into the 2nd round and later like Lemonier, some will get injured like Carradine, some will come out of nowhere like Ansah...its the natural progression of a college season.

    Like LBC said, its always "next year's class has...", but I'm not worried about next year, too much has to happen between now and then.
  13. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    I agree, but I doubt we could get him for less than $8M a year on the open market....and he will have a hell of a market.

    BTW...cutting Clary and Garay would almost make up for that signing. Not to mention McClain, McMichael, Whitehurst, English and other guys who contribute nothing.
  14. Whooki Mane
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    Whooki Mane BoltTalker

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    Not sure how interested the front office is in reggie bush but I cant help but think how much of an upgrade he would be to take reps in the sort of the ronnie brown role from last year... Reggie grew up 15 minutes from san diego and he favors playing in warm weather... both of which i think could help us land him if we present an offer anywhere ballpark of his market value
  15. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    This is very unlikely, because Telesco did say we will not be breaking the bank this year in free agency but, man -- If we could imagine signing both Andy Levitre and Louis Vasquez. There's your LOG and ROG, and you can get a OT in the 1st-2nd and another one in the later rounds.

    They'd probably still have enough to sign a corner too, like Jerraud Powers.

    But I honestly wouldn't be surprised, since reports say we're interested in Levitre, and others have Vasquez as a 'top priority.' I think Telesco and McCoy both believe the interior offensive line is just as bad as the two tackles play last year.
  16. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    We can make room for a Levitre, Long, or even Dumervil if Telesco really wanted too. Cutting Garay, Clary, McMichael, Whitehurst and McClain would just about double our open cap space to around $22 million without sacrificing a single starter or key contributor. (I don't count Clary as a starter)

    I'm honestly starting to worry a little bit about why these seemingly obvious moves haven't been made yet. I can understand waiting on Gaither, but the rest just seem like a given to me.
  17. Bolts4lyfe
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    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Good news:rolleyes:

    Chargers re-signed KR/WR Richard Goodman to a one-year, $630,000 contract.
    Not an offensive threat, 26-year-old Goodman is a core special teamer in San Diego. He runs downfield on punt and kickoff coverage, and Goodman's 27.6 kick return average over the past two seasons is the league's fourth-best mark.


    Im getting the feeling Telesco expects us to use our Special teams a lot next season
  18. Bolts4lyfe
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    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Also read Acee's article today,


    Im curious if this means one and done with Johnny Patrick or are they planning on going cheap with Powers or someone like that.
  19. AnteaterCharger
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    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Guy is nearly as bad as Norv; how many times will he stay on this roster in a pointless manner even though he sucks?

    Btw I'd really push for Dumervil, that's enough of an OLB upgrade to pair with Ingram that I absolutely would spend more money for him
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  20. CoronaDoug
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    CoronaDoug Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
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  21. Fossil
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    Fossil BoltTalker

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    Bugs the cr4p out of me that this dude is making several million per year off the Chargers, his coach wants to talk to him, and he can't even make time in his "busy offseason schedule" to fly his a55 into town?
    Also, on a less ranty Gaither topic: I thought I read somewhere that if we let him play under contract this season, regardless how it pans out, if we release him next year we take almost the exact same cap hit as we would this year. 'Zat true? If so, the downside risk on this already horrible gamble is effectively doubled.
  22. Bolts4lyfe
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    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    I need to add to what I wrote in a post earlier. Clary and now Goodman, are like two cockroaches we just can't kill, the world could end tomorrow and Clary would still be out there "trying" to pass protect and Goodman will be out there still trying to run out kicks from the endzone.
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  23. Bolts4lyfe
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    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    If we released him this year, We'll take a huge hit but we will wash our hands of this. Next year he's set to make a lot more and the year after that even more. So it is true, not sure what the exact cap hit would be but it'l be close
  24. Bolts4lyfe
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    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    To add to this If we released Gaither and Clary today, we would have 15million in dead money but 11.5 is money saved. according to Acee
  25. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I'm not a fan of Gaither, although some perceive me as cause I'm always defending the guy, but he just had a baby with his girlfriend/wife, whatever they are. So I'm guessing that's one of the reasons why he didn't make it out to San Diego.

    Honestly I believe what Telesco is doing is right. I'm sure people are in his ear saying if you don't cut him you better have a good back up plan, which I'm sure he will find with 3 offensive tackles who will be elite in NFL in the draft. But hey, we have money invested in him already, he's already made $9M of a $16M guaranteed salary, maybe he sticks it out this year and actually plays, and if not we can cut him.

    And if he does decide to make it to camp, we can even trade back a few times, gain more picks and I'd be happy with Arthur Brown or Menelik Watson in that low-mid-high 20's range.
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  26. DenverBolt67
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    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Jay Glazer ‏@JayGlazer
    The Seahawks and Vikings have agreed to a trade that send Harvin to Seattle for draft picks, pending Harvin passing a physical
  27. Moses
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    Moses Yeah Buddy!

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    Good move for Seattle...

    If early rumors are right and the deal is is for a first round pick this year (saw on Adam Schefter Twitter so take with pinch of salt lol) then Minnesota haven't done too badly either.
  28. Whooki Mane
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    Whooki Mane BoltTalker

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    Deangelo Hall being cut by the redskins today is only making this an even deeper free agency class of DB's... This will definitely help drive the price down of DB's on the open market hopefully we can take advantage :)
  29. Bolts4lyfe
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    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    It's funny I was reading Rotoworld.com's FA projections and I found myself getting upset at a fictional scenario. Sure we were projected to get Jerraud Powers and Pat Chung but, I kept thinking "No we need to get help on the O line"

    Anyways lets hope for the best.
  30. Bolts4lyfe
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    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Just more of the same B.S.

    The Chargers still haven't made a contract offer to free agent OG Louis Vasquez.
    Vasquez was initially turned off by what the Union-Trib San Diego refers to as a "modest/insulting" contract proposal under ex-GM A.J. Smith. It's been crickets under new GM Tom Telesco. The Chargers have one of the worst offensive line situations in football and risk losing their best linemen to a thin guard market on which Vasquez will be coveted. The Colts will be in hot pursuit.

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