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How would you rebuild?

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by PRiversMVP619, Oct 28, 2012.

  1. PRiversMVP619
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    PRiversMVP619 BoltTalker

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    We know a lot needs to change, were not the same team we were in 2009.

    Lets not shout out irrational things or be impulsive, do I think Norv is the answer? No, but when you fire a coach you have to prepare a new coach who can do a better job so who can seriously come in and do a better job.

    In no way do I think we need a change at the QB position.

    Point of this post is who are the possible candidates for the HC position and why and also
    regarding our draft and next years FA who do we need to look at and what positions are the biggest needs.

    IMO Rivers does not need new weapons, not yet, another year with his new WR will fix the chemistry but what needs to be changed ASAP is the o-line, serious emphasis for a legit line for Rivers and the rest will work itself out, I think we also have something special going for us on defense that can grow into something great minus the need at CB which IMO is the second largest hole we need to fill in the offseason.

    Input?!?
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  2. JohnnyX
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    JohnnyX Well-Known Member

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    What's the point of rebuilding if your builders are incompetent of doing their job?

    Spanos. It starts with him and trickles down to everyone else. We need a winner not some half hearted business man.
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  3. ETicket
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    ETicket Well-Known Member

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    He may be overly cautious, but you could do a whole lot worse then Spanos. That's not where the problem lies. I don't think "half-hearted" fits, and what owner isn't a "business man"?
  4. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    Step 1: Coaching - Fire Norv, hire Brady Hoke.

    Step 2. FA - Re-sign Barnes, Vasquez, and Shaun Phillips. Let Jammer, Cason, Spikes, Green, Bigby, McMichael and everyone else of meager importance walk for nothing if we can't trade them in the next couple days. Also trade Jarrett Johnson and Clary if possible just to get those contracts out of here. Then do whatever it takes to sign a legit OT in FA, even if we have to overpay. Brandon Albert, Sebastian Vollmer, Jake Long, Sam Baker, Ryan Clady....makes no difference to me. Its the price you pay for having a statue like Philip Rivers under center.

    Step 3. Draft - As always take the best available, but lean heavily toward CB. We need at least 3 CBs out of this draft, we also need a LG, a solid #2 RB, and maybe another OLB or two.

    It's really not that difficult. I don't think we need to blow it up, just fire the right people, hire the right people, and fix CB and RT.
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  5. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I like Harris at RT. Our problem is that Gaither is apparently only good for 50% of a season and our entire interior line is garbage, plus we have no one other than Brown and Floyd on the roster who should be in the NFL as a pass catcher, and Floyd is getting up there in age. (OK, there was a little hyperbole there)

    We clearly need to invest in our TEs, CBs, and linemen. I guess Ladarius Green is worthless or he'd be seeing the field.
  6. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    Green is a raw product, a rookie, he still needs to gain weight and offer more in the blocking game. To give up on him now because NORV of all people can't find a use for him would be rediculous.
  7. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    On a day where we had 2 receivers in the game after Goodman went down he couldn't get on the field. What is he doing? He's been practicing for 3 months at this point, not to mention TC and MC. I didn't see whether he was on the inactives list, but that's pretty pathetic. The non-drafting of Gronk/drafting of Mathews has me wanting to slam a door shut on my dick.
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  8. scratchnz
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    scratchnz BoltTalker

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    I would love to see us try to get back to being a real "SMASHMOUTH" team like we were under Schottenheimer!

    Things have gone downhill since then.

    Teams were afraid of us back then...we ran the ball down peoples throats and used the pass to make the killing blow.

    We built the team around the offensive and defenisve lines and focused on simple but effective , mistake free football.

    We had coaches that were not just about playcalling and scheming but great motivators that could fire up the team and get them to buy into the system and give 110% everytime.

    In short...we were tougher...stronger...motivated...hungry. When was the last ime we could say that about a Chargers team?

    We had the blue-print and the head-office moved in a different direction. A direction that has gotten us nowhere!

    Dean Spanos and AJ need to accept the mistakes they made and get back to what made this team great again! Do this...and we can be competative and the stadiums will be full and the fans will be happy!
  9. MasterOfPuppets
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    MasterOfPuppets Charger fan since 1979

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    1) Fire Norv, don't know who would be a good hire
    2) bring in a couple of OL in free agancy
    3) draft 2-3 OL (with the FA and Troutman/Molk, you can let them fight it out for the starting positions), a couple of CB and maybe a WR (rest BPA)

    I think that there is still enough talent here that a good coach could win with them

    BTW, give Green time to develope as a TE, everybody knew he was raw and was considered a project
  10. MadMike
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    MadMike Well-Known Member

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    #1 - Fire norval Turner and AJ Smith, dont want to keep just AJ, we need a fresh start here

    #2 - Hire new head coach, would love to see Jimmy Johnson, but I assume he is way too happy doing what he's doing to come back now. Chip Kelly works for me, but any solid, hard nosed, fundamentals coach will work for me.

    #3 - Promote A.G. Spanos to GM. Maybe not my first choice but i'm sure everyone here knows that AG is the next GM no matter what. Only thing that can stop this is some big name coming in and wanting both GM and HC titles. That being said, I think A.G. is a pretty smart dude. I hvae watched a bunch of interviews and stuff with him and I find him to be way more savvy then AJ.

    #4 - Players:
    Philip Rivers - Need a new QB coach to come in and work on his footwork. It's been terrible for the last 2 seasons. I know protection will help, but he needs to lose the happy feet. I would bench him after his next stupid interception just for the rest of the game to prove he is not untouchable and that there are reprecussions to poor play.
    Ryan Mathews - He goes 50/50 carries with Battle until he can go 100 carries with no fumbles. Then we can move to 60/40, then 70/30 and settle there. And dude has to carry a ball all day every day while the team tries to punch it out.
    O-Line - Mike Harris needs extensive training at RT so by next season he is starting. We need to look in the draft and at FA for LT and G, and yes I mean 1st through 4th round picks. We must sign 3 starting quality players. Have Hardwick and line coach continue to work with Molk for him to start next year as well.
    WRs - Floyd is a great #2. Meacham is not a #1, and he is too expensive for a #3. I havent given up on him yet. I think Rivers and the line play has something to do with it, but you cannot drop easy TD passes. We need VB back and healthy as he could potentially be a shorter Reggie Wayne. Royal has shown me nothing. We need to sign or draft another solid WR.
    TE - Gates is not healthy. He has lost a step. His hands are not what they used to be. He plays out his contract and retires or moves on. McMichael is a great blocker. In no way can we lose him at this point until we have another blocking TE. Rosario has shown glimpses, I'd keep him. Green is raw but he could be a monster. Needs solid training but I expect him to be #2 by next season.
    D-Line - Good solid base to build from. Franklin has shown he can play as a run stopper in a 3-4. We need to swap to hybrid 4-3 on the front on passing downs and pull him out. Reyes will start over Vaughn next year and Liuget is a beast. Martin may walk at the end of the season, we either keep him or Garay to back up DE with Cam.
    LBs - Like our depth at OLB, they can roll 1 more year. Need a new starter next to Butler, TKO can be a rotation guy but he cannot play on passing downs. Mouton has not shown me anything really.
    Ss - Weddle is the man. Bigby should be backing up Taylor by next year. Lynch and Stuckey back up fine.
    CBs - Neither are good enough to be starters anymore. Cason is by far the worst though. We need to draft or sign his replacement this year. Shareece Wright has shown glimpses that he could be a solid CB. Might give him a shot at it, but no matter what we need 2 new CB's next year. Gilly plays inside fine, not an outisde CB guy though.
    K/P - Kickers are fine, last of my worries at this point.
    Kr/Pr - Boy are we missing Sproles and even Spurlock right now? If Royal cant stay healthy we need a new Pr. And no I dont want my all pro Safety doing it.

    #5 - Draft and Signings:
    Draft needs in order: OL/CB (Top 2 picks must be these, possibly even 3 OL and 2 CB in the draft), WR, MLB, QB. RB

    #6 - Administration/Season Tickets/Marketing
    A reduction in ticket prices is an absolute must at this point in time. We will have 3 to 4 blackouts this year. The crappy product they are offering is not selling. They need to offer more to season ticket holders and fans. They need to get their marketing staff working. This is going to be a tough year for them. I would make the recommendation of switching to the Powder Blues as the main jersey next year just to change **** up. Next time a PR guy tells the fans to "Take a Chill Pill" the owner should be helping the dude pack his box and kicking his *** to the curb. Spanos needs to show he's in charge. Seems like a rudderless ship right now. Need a show of strength from the top.

    #7 - Stadium
    If your not moving, and we arent getting a new stadium in the next few years, then you need to upgrade your Jumbotron screens and the audio at the game. It is terrible. You need more people working (Like the announcer) to create more of a home field advantage.
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  11. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I'd add 2 things to this. Our new coach needs to be able to adjust his system to the players on our roster, and not try to force our players into roles for which they simply aren't suited. Meachem and Royal are non-factors, but I don't know if that's a function of their inadequacies, or Norv's unwillingness to recognize that our line is too bad to pass block for his route tree.

    2nd we desperately need to improve the quality of play from our secondary pass catchers, i.e. the RBs. It's absurd how much this team misses Tomlinson's receiving abilities, as well as those of Sproles.
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  12. Moses
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    Moses Yeah Buddy!

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    The most obvious part is firing Norv and AJ. Both have to go, there is no ifs or buts here now. If they keep either, they start losing a serious amount of ticket sales and fans, because they accept mediocrity and being a bad team.

    The thing is though, I get this horrible feeling that we fire Norv, then hire another cheap mediocre coach rather than a proven winner. We need someone proven to be good as a HEAD COACH. Not someone who runs a good offensive but couldn't motivate a pop warner team.

    We need to upgrade our secondary. Cason and Jammer aren't cutting it. Jammer is too slow now, maybe he could play safety, I'm not sure. Cason to me is just as bad when it coems to tackling as Cromartie was, scared to hit.

    Upgrade our O-line, particularly in Green and Clary spots.

    I also think we need a better #2 RB, our team misses Tolbert. Battle and Brown are ok, but neither are as good as what Tolbert was for us. A good 1-2 punch would be nice.

    We need to stop bargain hunting in free agency too, and go out and get quality players.
  13. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    First off, Norv & AJ need to be fired. That's where I would start. AJ hired Norv, and have been best of buddies since.
    Let's look at AJ's mistakes, 1.) Letting Brees walk for FREE, doesn't even seek to trade the guy and gain something back. Even if it's late draft picks. Get something for the guy. 2.) Letting Michael Turner walk, when a year or two later we were looking for a new running back to replace LT. 3.) Letting Sproles walk, a guy who has the most all purpose yards since coming into the league. 4.) Letting Vincent Jackson walk, he had plenty of opportunities to re-sign this guy. 5.)Terrible contracts as well, Jeromey Clary for example, and others.

    So we took all of Rivers' best/favorite options away from him. Wow AJ you've done a great job you stubborn piece of ****. You've done nothing to protect your HOF QB either, and your worthless drafting.

    Last 3 seasons Norv has been 19-20 with this team. Get rid of a guy who presents mediocre teams.

    this offseason, has to call for a turnaround. Let Brinkley, Alexander, Carr, Cason, Hadnot, Jammer, and Battle walk. Re-sign Barnes, Phillips, Brown, Franklin, Goodman, Green, Lynch, Martin, Novak, Vasquez, Williams, and Windt. Release English, Clary, and Spikes.

    Sign Donald Butler long term.

    Sign top CB in the FA. Sean Smith or Brent Grimes, cause Antonio Cromartie will most likely tell his cousin DRC not to come to SD so that rules him out.

    Sign an ILB. Jovan Belcher, Erin Henderson, Nick Roach, or Daryl Smith.

    Sign a solid OL in FA. Brandon Moore would be a solid Guard to pick up.

    In the Draft.. Our picks must look like this.. 1.) Corner 2.) Offensive Linemen 3.) Outside Linebacker 4.) Wide Receiver 5.) Running Back 6.) Kicker 7.) Irrelevant
  14. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    I think you may be letting your emotions override where you have typically been pretty darn logical in the past. Gronk has spinal stenosis, same condition that helped McNiell's career to be shortened by injury. He is a great TE, however his "dominance" is horrifically inflated by the offensive system in place and the QB in New England. Remember that this is the same Tom Brady who made mediocre guys like Christian Fauria and Ben Watson look like studs because his first look in the red zone is consistently to his TE. And the 2009 season was when we really started seeing McNiell's stenosis downgrade his ability to stay on the field - so I can't really blame the front office for being gun-shy about another player with the same condition.

    And whether or not Goodman got injured on Sunday had little bearing on Green. Green was healthy going into the day, thus we had four healthy receivers (Floyd, Meach, Alexander, and Goodman), we can't just activate a game day inactive because of an injury that happens during the game. Fact is, because his blocking isn't up to snuff - which is a necessity given that our OL is so porous right now that 2 TE's is effectively a necessity - and thus he's below 3 other TE's on the roster (and most TE's make no contribution on ST that doesn't involve a blocking capacity); expecting the team to carry 4 active TE's on game day is just nonsensical.
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  15. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    In fairness, my comments on Green make no sense. I still think Gronk would have been a better selection than Mathews.
  16. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Was pretty sure that Dean's younger son John is the one that's teed up to be the next GM. A.G. is the business and marketing guy and he's already been working in that capacity as an Executive VP for several years now. John's the one that's interned at the league Management Council's office, and has been working in our scouting dept. since he returned from doing that. Either way, if A.G. gets the gig that means that John will end up running our entire scouting department which scares the crap out of me.

    Either way, both are going to toe the family line and that means that there will be no freshman HC unless he's previously worked for the Chargers/family. Honestly, if I was setting odds on who our next HC will be, I'd put the best ones on either Cam being brought back (though not particularly deservedly unless we're going purely off of his time as OC here) or Andy Reid. Now Reid, despite the fact that people will bitch about "I don't want a re-tread," is not that bad of an option, aside from the fact that Rivers isn't mobile enough to run a West Coast offense so he'd either have to adapt his scheme or he'll force the square peg in the round hole. Reid preaches trenches and beef (ironic that they biggest issue in Philly is the OL right now, but that's because Howard Mudd's concept of an OL only works when you have a smart, get-the-ball-out-quick QB like Peyton Manning playing behind it and that is the exact opposite of what they have in Vick). The Juan Castillo as a DC was moronic, but Reid's been trying to recreate what was lost in Jim Johnson since 2008, but he's always turned to guys who preached - like Johnson - an aggressive, get-at-'em philosophy. Now Andy needs to be reigned in on personnel decisions - but then this is the Spanos family we're talking about, since when wouldn't they be doing that with a HC.

    And yes, Reid has had a severe case of the "not being able to get over the hump" in Philadelphia in terms of not winning a SB. To draw a bit of a comparison, he's in a real similar position to where Dungy was in in Tampa - sometimes both the team and the coach just need a breath of fresh air to reinvigorate them.
  17. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Yeah, but how much of that is because you and I both believe there's really no point to drafting a 1st round RB unless you're getting an Adrian Peterson type prospect?

    We were in the kind of crappy between a rock and a hard place scenario that pretty much comes with the territory when you have an all-time great who isn't exactly all that humble playing for you for so many years - unfortunately you have to concede some to him because he is who he is and he's still contributing at a high level for you. LT, for the span from Seau's departure to his own, was the face of the franchise - and the organization didn't have much of a choice but to do (almost) everything it could to keep its bell cow happy. And it was fairly obvious that LT was going to be damned if he "got Brees'd" (which I think is a dumb expression for people to even use because it discounts the nature of the injury Brees had at the time or assumes he played at a high level the entire time he was here) - whereby the team had a successor waiting in the wings and were able to push him out the door whenever they wanted.

    What we didn't do, which was flat out dumb, that could have achieved keeping LT happy and still made it to where we could have plugged and played any number of RB's after he did leave, was continue to bolster and strengthen the OL even when we had 4 out of 5 above-average starters (Clary's never actually been good, but before Goff fell off a cliff when he went to KC, his negative impact was minimal because Goff was dominant next to him). We backed our LT (who had a permanent, degenerative spine condition) with a UDFA, when we opted to let Goff go (arguably a fair decision given how much his play declined in the immediate season following in KC) we had no one on the roster ready to step into the RG1 spot, we've never (ever) given Clary anything close to legitimate competition at the RT1 spot. Well, that and Marty allowed our exceedingly good OL coach to walk when his contract was up (because that was historically one of Marty's greatest faults due to his own hubris) and take a lateral hire (Houck was hired as an OL coach in Dallas, where he was eventually promoted). If we could have maintained the year-to-year effectiveness of the MM-Dielman-Hardwick-Goff-Olivea/Clary line we put in front of Tomlinson, we could have plugged any number of Ben Tate, Chris Ivory, Keiland Williams, or a mid-level free agent pickup behind that line and still gotten production.
  18. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Bold = completely agree, 100%.

    Red it's a lot of that, but also that that was a really fantastic TE class, everyone knew that Gates hadn't been the same at that point and that we didn't have anyone behind him. It's also that we'd swung and missed over and over and over and over again on these trade-ups to try and acquire that "one piece" that would somehow complete the team. The entire decision-making process there is what irks me. The idea that ignoring the O-line was somehow acceptable if we acquired a talented enough RB, or that Mathews was going to redefine our offense (he didn't) or make up for the departure of Sproles (later) and Tomlinson (initially) with his play-making ability. I think the other thing that completely blows my mind is that they'd trade up for a quality but certainly not extraordinary RB, but the following year with all of the ammunition that we had, Smitty couldn't be bothered to trade up for a once in a generation talent in JJ Watt, instead, selecting another square peg/round hole in Liuget (who admittedly is looking like he's going to be a quality starter, but never the player Watt is, let alone will be) and using our 2 2nds on Gilchrist and Mouton. That's the kind of juxtaposition that makes me scream at my ceiling for justice when watching the Chargers.
  19. Moses
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    Moses Yeah Buddy!

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    To be honest though, can you honestly say at the time of the draft, that you knew Watt would be that good? My point is that if people knew that then he'd have not only gone higher, but every team in the league would be trying to swing a trade to draft him.

    Liuget for where we picked him is a decent enough pick, but like the LBC and you both said, the bigger issue is not investing enough in the offensive line. Teams invest premium picks year after year in building a good line, because it protects your QB and enhances your run game, and we are certainly paying the price for that now. It's not a glamorous way to use your higher picks, but you look at good teams currently like the Niners and see they spent some decent picks on their line.
  20. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    I did. I had him ranked as a legitimate Top 5 pick (Dareus was a safer pick, but for all the bluster that was being made of Von Miller's inhuman athleticism, Watt was right there with him in a lot of the timed drills... and at 50 pounds heavier). I didn't think Watt would reach this height this soon - I figured he'd have a couple of years like Igor where he could produce off purely out-athleting the opposition, taper off a bit while he refined his technique after opposing OC's started gameplanning to eliminate him, and then reestablish himself as a top tier player.

    I just didn't think we had any remote chance of getting him (particularly with the Pats sitting on two 1st's, including the one directly in front of ours).
  21. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I haven't been a big draft guy lately, but you're talking about a guy who played 3-4 DE in college, and was productive at it. Who was already the right size, and had not only all of the right measurables for a 3-4 DE, he had all the right measurables for a 4-3 RDE. I think that his numbers for the Kirwan Explosiveness Index were some of the best all-time. Watt is Seymour-esque, and likely the only reason that he wasn't selected top 5 was that a 3-4 DE is typically not a top 5 pick, he didn't play in the SEC, and he's white.

    When I was looking at our needs in 2011, I was praying that Smitty would move up and take him, but it of course didn't happen.
  22. powayslugger
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    powayslugger Optimistic for 2013

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    I would be using the rest of this season to determine if Ryan Mathews an be a #1 every down running back. We have thin talent at WR and Rivers spends the better part of the day running from 300 pound D linemen. We should be running the all more and sticking with it. we need to see if Mathews is the NFL running back we think he is or te fumbling machine he has shown us to be.

    Seems that the "most intelligent and talented offensive guru in the NFL" would make the discovery to be throwing more slants and quick passes and be running the ball more. But since our resident offensive guru doesn't seem to be that smart he should be fired after the Thursday game.
  23. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Mathews is an every down back. He's just an every down back who fumbles the ball alot and has been injured every season he's been in the league.
  24. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Coaching Candidates for 2013..

    Jay Gruden - OC Bengals
    Mike Zimmer - DC Bengals
    Gus Bradley - DC Seahawks
    Kevin Coyle - DC Dolphins
    Kyle Shannahan - OC Redskins
    Joe Vitt - Interim coach Saints
    Rob Ryan - DC Cowboys

    Then of course you have Jon Gruden, Bill Cowher, Bill Billick, Herm Edwards, etc. everyone is going to call for..
  25. socaldelmar
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    socaldelmar Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you should....;)
  26. MadMike
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    MadMike Well-Known Member

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    Forgot about Kelly from Oregon.
  27. Pointyearedog
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    Pointyearedog BoltTalker

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    Then there's always Plan B:

    A-Bomb.jpg
    • Winner Winner x 1
  28. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Sadly, although Russian nuclear weapons are still relatively available for purchase, I don't think that Dean has the scratch to buy the 25 or so he'd need to take out all of our competition.
  29. Buck Melanoma
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    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    He was inactive. Hard to come in to the game with that status.
  30. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Damnit man, don't bring logic and sense into this! Seriously though, I've already admitted that I was being mindless when I posted that. This doesn't change the Gronk/Mathews/dick in doorjam statement though.

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