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LBC and Duffman's "Watch List"

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by The LBC, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Guys I'm paying close attention to,

    NT DaQuan Jones, Penn State
    OLB Carl Bradford, Arizona State
    OLB Demarcus Lawrence, Boise State
    OLB Kareem Martin, North Carolina
    CB Andre Hal, Vandy
    CB Quandre Diggs, Texas
    WR Ryan Grant, Tulane
  2. Concudan
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    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    We need a big ugly at NT. A CB and OL....
  3. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    If Louis Nix doesn't fall to us, I'd look at DaQuan Jones in the 2nd, but his draft stock is booming, and if he blows up the combine, he'll be a day 1 selection.

    Also, once this team gets pressure up the middle and off the edge, I think our CB will do work. Wright might be restricted to nickel CB, but, Johnny Patrick shutting down Wes Welker gives me confidence in Patrick as a nickel guy. Steve Williams looked real good in pre-season as an outside CB, I was a bit surprised there as well.

    Marcus Gilchrist is getting better at SS, but I really think his skill set is to be used on the outside. Derek Cox is having a Robert Meachem type year right now, nothing going his way and he's not doing much for things to go his way. But, he is a press man coverage guy. Instead, Pagano has him playing off coverage. Perfect coaching.

    I think we can find a CB in free agency, and also later in the draft. CB class is so deep its not even funny. I expect Telesco to try and bring Cassius Vaughn who he acquired while in Indy, and also we should take a look at Walter Thurmond.
  4. AnteaterCharger
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    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Could Deandre Coleman from California be considered a viable NT?
    Also I admit I'm really liking what I see out of Ahmad Dixon SS Baylor
    The other cornerback I'm thinking in maybe the third round is Antone Exum; love his size and his movement
  5. Riff Raff
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    Exum seems to be making a slow recovery from the ACL & now has an ankle injury that will cause him to miss his last game in Blacksburg. I like him but waiting to see how he returns from the injury.

    Kyle Fuller is also a very good DB outta Virginia Tech. His brother Kendall may be even better when he enters the draft in a few years.
  6. LT-Express
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    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Despite his size, I love the versatility in the secondary that Lamarcus Joyner brings. Guy has played both CB, and S at a high level in college, is a hitter, has a passion for football, doesn't have off the field issues, and is a phenomenal return man. Could be just a bit bias too, but the dude has skills.

  7. Lance19
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    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    You rockin' "Made in Dade" 22 hours before the Chargers do battle in Miami Gardens?
    Et tu, LTE?
  8. LT-Express
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    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Lol touche. But Joyner is a badass
  9. charger1993
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    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    The way i see it, there is no true day one olb that will fall to us. Our d line is doing good but seems to struggle at block shedding. If we cant get jake mathews, or the lt from.alabama in the first. I wouldnt mind this.
    Sammy watkins wr clemson
    Louis nix Nt notre dame
    Darqueeze dennard CB michigan state.
    Sammy watkins wr clemson.
    Louis nix NT notre dame
    Tajh boyd qb Clemson
    Gabe jackson G nebraska. Thats who.id take.in the first round, there are no true day 1 pass ruahing OLB.
    In the second id take.
    Travis swanson c arkansas
    Jamarcus joyner S fsu.
    The de/olb from.georgia tech i cant spell his last name as im on my cell phone but its something like atukouna.
  10. JohnnyX
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    JohnnyX Well-Known Member

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    Jason Verrett CB 5"10 170 ibs - TCU

    I've seen him play one game and most of his highlights he looks like a Darelle Revis 2.0 and is highly touted by experts too. If he falls, BPA has got to go to him, this team outside of Weddle at Safety probably doesn't have anyone in secondary that would start for any other team.
  11. SuperCharger92
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    I believe we'll be picking in the 10-17 range, so I'd look at these guys,

    NT Louis Nix III
    OLB Kyle Van Noy
    OLB Kahlil Mack
    CB Jason Verrett
    CB Ifo Ekpre-Olomu
    CB Darqueze Dennard
    OT Antonio Richardson
    OG David Yankey
    WR Marquise Lee
    WR Mike Evans
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  12. SuperCharger92
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    Unless guys like Louis Nix or Jason Verrett don't fall to us, I'd like to see us trade back in this draft and acquire more picks. We're gonna need them.

    Darqueze Dennard, clearly my favorite CB outside of Verrett. Also, really looking at ILB, Butler has a good possibility of being gone, and looking at Shayne Skov and Andrew Jackson who both might go 2nd-3rd round, look like they can ball out every Sunday at ILB.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  13. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Currently my hope is for Louis Nix to be sitting in a position to be snatched up the 1st round. Fact is, that you can get away with a lot on defense if you've got a dominant front 3 (LB's can freelance a bit more, you can deploy a guy who is a "good pass-rusher but not-so-refined versus the run more often and not get burned by it, etc.). And you don't get high-end 3-4 NT's anymore without spending a pick in the 1st two rounds on him. Nix may not be fantastic right out the gate if he's asked to plug in immediately and play the 0-Tech, but given a year to continue to build his strength and bridge the size/strength gap that exists in the trenches between college and the pro's and he has Vince Wilfork type ceiling.

    However, in the spirit of the thread, I've chosen to highlight a couple guys who at present are likely more "solid 2nd's" but who have the potential to late-rise into the 1st as the draft screening process progresses. To preface, historically the NCAA sack leader has, at least over the past 6 years, always been drafted in the 1st round of the draft whenever eligible to be drafted - there is one lone exception, that being DaQuan Bowers who was a consensus Top 15 lock until suffering a knee injury between the end of his college season and the draft which dropped him to the 2nd round. Among current collegiate sack leaders, three players stand out as having the potential to both sustain and finish atop the FBS as well as to have the qualities that, if they don't show any red flags in the testing/workout process and avoid injury, give them a definite shot at 1st round selection and at worst are Top 64 pick locks in my estimation.

    [​IMG]
    First up is Michael Sam, Missouri's 6'2", 255 lbs. pass-rush specialist who at one point this season led the FBS in sacks and currently leads the SEC in the category. He seems to have found his sweet spot in terms of weight and bulk this season, and while he'll likely continue to get stronger, it's likely that he'll want to stay at his present 255 lb. weight as a pro as he actually lost some weight last season (dropping down in the the mid 240's) and lost some effectiveness, though his frame isn't going to take much more than 255-260. I honestly feel like if Sam was 6'4" or taller (though his arms look plenty long enough that they shouldn't be a liability on the edge) he'd be getting similar hype, if not more, to what Khalil Mack is getting right now.

    Mizzou defensive line coach Craig Kuligowski is no joke, the guy has an eye for identifying talent among 3-star high school recruits and then developing them into NFL starting caliber players - as evidenced by his recent products: Sheldon Richardson, Aldon Smith, and Ziggy Hood. What I really love about Sam is his efficiency - the guy just doesn't show a lot of wasted movement, he shifts his weight perfectly and is great at creating and utilizing leverage. He's got great burst and release off the line (better than his pure 40-time will indicate, he's one of those guys where the 10-yard split time will be much more telling). And while he does have some handwork issues that need cleaning up (mostly in terms of hand-fighting and shedding blocks to not allow OT's to square him up - which mostly tends to show in the running game rather than when he's rushing the passer), but otherwise his technique in run defense is pretty solid as well - takes good angles, just has a tendency to overpursue.

    [​IMG]
    Next up is Louisville defensive end Marcus Smith who is currently one sack off of Trent Murphy for the FBS lead, and is a former FBS one-time sack-leader from earlier this season. The current incarnation of Smith does leave something to be desired in terms of technique (namely, he doesn't have a wide variety of pass-rushing moves, but that is something that can be taught), but that is because he is still relatively new to playing defense. Why is that, you might ask? Well, that's because he came to the Cardinals as a 3-star quarterback recruit and was later converted to OLB and then this season to defensive end. He's actually been on my radar since last year's BCS bowl game against Florida, but he simply wasn't getting the snaps (used in a substantial rotation, largely as a pass-rush specialist) at OLB to really get a good feel on him.

    At 6'3", 252 lbs, he's built solidly right now, but looks like he could easily bulk up into the 260's without losing much if any of his great athleticism. Again, this isn't a guy who is going to run a sexy 40 (probably somewhere in the high 4.6's to low 4.7's), but he is more than solid where it counts - short burst, fluidity of hips, change of direction ability, and plant-and-go. What he does know, somewhat innately, how to do is use his length to create space and he's shown better drive-strength than you'd expect looking at his current frame, actually able to collapse the pocket on a bull-rush (obviously he's not going to be able to do that right off the bat as a pro, but as he adds strength it's certainly not outlandish to expect him to be able to do it with development). His first step is flat out explosive - probably my favorite thing about him. He's a guy that's still raw and rough around the edges, thus he's not going to step in Day One and be a starter (but then neither did Aldon Smith), but he's got a good head on his shoulders and, being a former QB himself, he understands the mentality of QB's and shows really great instincts in terms of anticipating and baiting opposing QB's when he stunts. I know I've drawn this comparison to prospects in the past, but he reminds me a lot of Whitney Mercilus, except with Justin Houston like upside.
  14. charger1993
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    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    you hit it on the head with michael sam. This is a kid who i would love to see n vharger blue. i van nly ho tha he is a second round prospect. so we can get s nix and him. but if t id him in the first
  15. Duffman57
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    I just got around to watching Marcus Smith....he looks awesome as a developmental pass rusher. Real explosive and actually has some pretty good moves. He is another one of those guys that just seems like they can help us out with what he does, and his mentality, since we seem to be going for a lot of the "good character" types to build a real strong locker room.

    Sam is a guy who i'm not huge on, but if we got him in the mid rounds, i wouldn't exactly be disappointed, but i dont really see him as an early day 2 guy, at least not yet.

    I'm really liking Vic Beasley right now, but i feel like we'd have to get him in the 1st round if we end up with him, since i think he'll blow up the combine. Curious as to what you think of him LBC, cuz despite being strong and explosive, he's playing at 230-235ish.

    Another few day 2 guys that are interesting to me are Jackson Jeffcoat, who we all know has some potential, but its all about putting it together with him, Ronald Powell, who has to come out but is real athletic and seems to understand rushing the passer, but really needs to add some bulk, and Trevor Reilly, who despite doing one of the most disgusting things i've ever seen on the sidelines saturday, has some potential, but is going to be 25 at the start of his rookie year IIRC.

    A couple of later round guys that i have my eyes on are Devon Kennard, Dee Ford, Bo Lokombo.
  16. SuperCharger92
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    Alvin Dupree? I like Dee Ford as well..
  17. Duffman57
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    I like Dupree, but he's a mid round pick and a Junior, which usually doesn't lead to guys coming out early. But if he does i'll be in his favor in the midish rounds.
  18. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    If you have concerns about Vic Beasley being a bit too undersized then why are you even giving thought to Bo? You've seen him in practices and close up, he's in the low 230's right now and doesn't have the frame to take another 20 pounds. Bo's going to make his living as a 4-3 WILL, but is probably much more of a rotational/3rd-down & ST's guy as a pro.

    Dee Ford is a possibility, he's well-coached that's for sure. But I can't remember if it's him or Reilly from Utah (or someone else, I'll have to go back and check my notes) who quite literally on 90% of this splash plays is getting them because of whiffed blocks or blown blocking assignments, not because he's actually defeating blocks from linemen. That's a definite cause for concern for me.
  19. Duffman57
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    Bo IMO has the frame to add some weight, even if its just another 10-15 lbs, he has HUGE arms/hands. But i agree for the most part that he's a true LB moreso than a rush LB, but the dude can definitely rush the passer, he doesn't get near as many chances as he should, as he took over the gap of the "do absolutely everything" LB position...lol. Oregon really likes LB's to play skinny and long, like you see with Jordan, Kaddu, you will see it with Prevot in a few years (kid is gonna be a stud) and you could even see it a little bit in Kiko, with how long and lean he was despite being a bigger ILB. And i'm intrigued by him and worried about Beasley is because of draft grade, you can grab Bo in the 5thish area, while Beasley has gotten a top 20 hype on him right now.

    I haven't seen that much of either Dee Ford or Reilly but they both intrigue me a decent amount. The game i watched of Reilly, he had 2 sacks and both were on a stunt inside, one was a miscommunication where the OG just left him alone and the other was a pretty decent spin move off the guard on a blitz. It doesn't look like there's any way he's 255 though.
  20. SuperCharger92
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    Dee Ford is quick off the snap, but lacks pass rush moves. Great athleticism and speed.
    Trevor Reilly is not quick off the snap, at least to me. He's a little less physical than what I'd like though. More of a finesse guy.
  21. Riff Raff
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  22. SuperCharger92
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  23. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Bit of an unfair comparison because Dowling was hampered by a lot of minor injuries all through his college career as well.

    But Fuller is an example of what I feel like it really isn't necessary to sink a 1st round pick into a corner, there's a lot of depth to this cornerback class in terms of guys who can play the boundary, if they've provided proper pass-rush. I don't see the point in sinking a Top 10-15 pick into a corner unless you're getting a Patrick Peterson (Deion-upside type) or Darrelle Revis (and Revis the prospect didn't exhibit a certainty he'd become Revis the current player; shutdown-type). Verrett's about the closest thing I've seen to having a case as one of the former, and even he projects much more as a Brandon Flowers/Aqib Talib type - and I've given a slight bump to his value for us because of multiple generations of DC's since Wade being so damn insistent we play heavy-cushion, off-man and refuse to press receivers except out of desperation.

    If the injury pushes Fuller to the 3rd or especially 4th round, I'd certainly take a flier on him - and I feel like the coaching staff could definitely take a shine to him because he fits that vocal leader (on the field and in the locker room) type that they appear to really value.
  24. Riff Raff
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    Fuller won't go 1st round regardless of this injury. i expected to see him go in rounds 2-3 & that's still likely with the need for CB's in today's league.
  25. Riff Raff
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    I always felt Dowling was overrated. Fuller, IMO, is actually a more complete DB. Far better tackler, breaks on the ball as well as Dowling. The only place I'd grade Dowling higher is in tracking ball flight.
  26. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    He still has his height and length going for him. That said, CB is one of the positions, especially of late, where a lot of FCS prospects tend to crack the ceiling in terms of attention from scouts (doesn't necessarily mean they'll be drafted like they're projected, but that doesn't mean they won't affect the draft).

    Fuller was never a 1st round prospect - even healthy. This actually isn't a terribly "strong" CB class, just deep with boundary options. There are guys that are definitely capable starters in this class (even if we assume that a good chunk of the likely-to-declare underclassmen don't declare), but very few if any (like I said, Verrett has the best chance, then Roby if he manages to reverse his current trend, get back on track, and meet his potential) "special" talents.
  27. SuperCharger92
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    Two guys I'm starting to love at WR are Brandon Coleman and Ryan Grant.

    Coleman is 6'6, a huge WR, who will have to answer questions of his straight line speed at the next level. Some think he might be too slow and doesn't possess that break away speed. His explosive first step makes up for it, he beats man coverage, but man the kid is a polished route runner and locates the ball in the air fantastically.

    One thing I hate about him, he likes to chest trap the ball rather than using his hands. This is coaching 101.

    Grant might be the most underrated pure pass catcher in the nation. Natural hands, smoothest in his routes and creates just enough space for himself on almost every play. Only problem is he has trouble securing the ball after the catch, again, coaching 101.
  28. SuperCharger92
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    Where's the hype on Kareem Martin? Think people should be talking about him a little more.
  29. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Great measurables, but when you actually sit down and watch him, he just doesn't jump out at you like you expect him to with those measurables. Just plain inconsistent: Inconsistent motor, inconsistent push. In fact that only thing I've really seen him be consistent at is getting washed out in run defense. He's one of those guys that people are going to box score scout and see his 16 TFL's and 9 sacks on the year along with his size and think "he's a starter at the next level for sure," but he just appears to lack a second gear. Maybe I need to go back and watch the 2012 tape again because I remember him being more explosive off the snap than he's shown this season. Flexibility and bend are real questions with him too. Frank Alexander/Jack Crawford type prospect whose played largely a lower level of competition than either of those two faced in the Big XII and B1G respectively.
  30. SuperCharger92
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    Yeah that's what I remember from his 2012 tape, was his first step off the snap was explosive. Don't know what's happened this year but I thought he could be an interesting tweener at his size.

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