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LBC and Duffman's "Watch List"

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by The LBC, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Quite a believer in Dee Ford as a late 1st rounder at the moment. I read from a scout on twitter than actually got back to me, Dee Ford has been blowing up 1 on 1 drills all week. He's a gym rat, loves the game, and well coached at Auburn. Had a pretty good BCSC game as well against FSU with 2 sacks. Has 2 sacks now in the Senior Bowl now.

    His explosiveness off the snap is unreal. I think Ingram and Ford could be a pretty dynamic duo. He had 10.5 sacks, 14.5 TFL and also showed ability to drop in coverage and cover.
     
  2. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Byron Jerideau is somebody they like. Interesting that they IR'd him instead of giving him a injury settlement. Pretty sure they signed him to a reserve contract recently. Another guy we had on our PS this year since Oct is Kerwynn Williams. He could be our KR and a Sproles type player in the near future. He was pretty good at Utah st.
     
  3. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I like Kerwynn Williams a lot. Think he's a good return specialist and also a receiver. He actually played in receiver sets at Utah St.

    This draft class is loaded with RBs, we need one behind 24, though I think he could have just as good as a year next year as last, I actually think he could do better than 1,225 yards, he had a pretty beat up line all year and barely touched the ball first half of the season. Need to get depth there.
     
  4. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    I'd like to take a minute and appreciate the fact that i wrote this out at 3AM solidly drunk...hahha
     
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  5. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Paul Burmeister ‏@PaulWBurmeister 11h
    Dee Ford achieved the #1 SR Bowl goal: He piqued the interest of GM's and scouts. Forced them to go home and get to know him better.

    "Dee Ford, Auburn - Ford is a total stud. He has great bend and burst off the line, but Ford also displays hand use and length once his initial line is stopped. He was not forced to show that very often this week, but turn on his tape against Texas A&M to see it. Again, I don’t care about these distinctions between 4-3 and 3-4. There is not really a difference in many schemes. Line Ford up wide and let him run, bend and attack."
     
  6. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    With the 25th picks of the 2014 draft, the San Diego Chargers select...

    DEE FORD

    Made me go back and watch him more, and the speed and bend is unreal. Ingram and Ford could be the closest we get to 2006 Merriman and Phillips, and could be all around better OLBs.
     
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  7. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    I wouldnt go that far. Ingram is still under further review. He gets a pass this year for his knee but im still looking for that pass rusher we drafted. I wasnt real high on Ingram for us when he was coming out and yes he had the injury but he hasnt showed yet that he can be a force in that area.

    Ford , well.....he hasnt played a down in the NFL yet.
     
  8. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I would. Ingram got hurries after being thrown out there towards the end of the season. In his second season, after an ACL injury, and also no training camp or pre-season, he gave us an upgrade against the run and also rushing the passer, it really showed in his 24 snaps in Denver in the regular season. And he built on from there.

    Ingram got sacks and hurries when he was moved around in college. Pagano getting Freeney and possibly a pass rusher with a selection either with the 1st round or 2nd round pick, will be able to move him around.

    Ford fits perfectly with what we do with our OLBs. He can drop in coverage and also rush the passer effectively. He's a lighter and quicker Ingram. Also, TT likes these SEC players who face NFL ready competition and a well coached program like Auburn. Not to mention TT loves these players that "have a love for football" and are gym rats which is exactly what Ford is. I think he's a 1st rounder now after this Senior Bowl and also some of his tape.
     
  9. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    I understand Ingrams situation and why i said he gets a pass. He had 1 sack, and some hurries. 1.5 sacks n his career so far. Dont get me wrong, i fully realize he missed everything this year but...........he still has something to prove.

    I hope he breaks out big time but so far he is far from a Shawn Merriman. I dont care what he did in college. I wasnt high on him coming out of college and didnt think he was that great a pass rusher and frankly i was kind of disapointed we drafted him but, he is a Bolt so i always hope for the best.

    To be honest...he may best be served as a ILB for us while moving him around like they do with Von Miller.
    I dont know if Ford fits perfectly, but he has talent. Needs to get bigger.
     
  10. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Beware of the senior bowl risers
     
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  11. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    Ford wasn't really a senior bowl Riser. When people started to take note of how good Auburn was, they started noticing Ford too. The problem is going to be how he develops. Everyone knows what he is right now, and his tape is great. He's prime Antwaan Barnes, explosive as hell off the snap, solid handwork, good show of pass rush moves, but is he anything more than a situational speed rusher in the future. Can we turn him into an all around LB, or is he just going to be a 1-2 down player his whole career.
     
  12. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Didn't the Bills draft Eric Wood in the 1st round while Joe D was there and deputize him a year at RG before he took over the center position full-time? (Which as I recall wasn't much of an apprenticeship because he broke his leg his rookie season.)
     
  13. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    From what i remember he was there from '10-'12 then came here last year. Wood was drafted in '09 IIRC. So Joe D wasn't there yet i dont think. I just looked at it and it seems like Wood did play some at RG in '10, up until they signed Urbik from the steelers early in the season, and kicked him inside to C.
     
  14. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I think he fits best as a SOLB. He is great against the run, and everything he gives after that is a bonus. His pass rush is effective when healthy and in football shape.

    To be honest, Ingram isn't a guy your gonna line up at OLB and get consistent pass rush. That's not his game and it never was. Again, going back to his college days, he was never that OLB that got lineup and beat OTs for sacks. He came in on a lot of stunts. One stunt, he lined up as a DT! He's a creative chess piece, and you have to move him, he has an excellent motor and will work hard to collapse the pocket.

    Another bonus to his game, he can drop in coverage and be effective as well. Like we saw against Cincy, he showed blitz, stuck Eifert's route and Andy Dalton gifted him his 1st INT.

    I think he's a bit too slow for ILB. I like him at SOLB, hence why Jarrett Johnson might be cut this off-season.
     
  15. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    It's possible, but law of averages tells us that more often than not players go underdrafted for a reason. Now, with the ever-increasing amount of underclassmen declares each year one of the main reasons is quickly become the massive size of the draft pool. But the cream, by and large, does tend to rise to the top in the scouting process if you're doing the job correctly.

    Either way, my experience with/opinion on any practice squad player is that none should be counted on in such a sense that their presence on the roster (bubble) would sway from selecting a prospect of value at their position if one was available. Occasionally, yes, you end up missing out on a Wes Welker (when Marty cuts him because he wasn't an effective run-blocker as a rookie), but for the most if those players are the sort that are going to well outproduce their late round/UDFA status, they'll flash something early even as a rookie in camp unless they're wholly a developmental prospect (similar to Becton or what we knew Green to be as a rookie).

    I like Kerwynn quite a bit and think he could stick. But he's not the reason I shy away from spending a mid-round pick on a RB; that's a different reason... largely because with the massive spike in RB's declaring for the draft nowadays the mid-round RB's of old are now the Day 3 RB's of today and the Day 3 RB's of yesteryear are now effectively priority UDFA's. The notion of spending a 1st round pick on a RB that isn't the caliber of prospect that Adrian Peterson was should be all but dead (Trent Richardson being the final bullet into the skull of Old Yeller, so to speak). This draft class... there are more than half as many declared underclassmen running backs as there are teams in the league (19 underclassmen RB's in this class... with another 11+ seniors that make a case for being "draftable" (or at least considered as priority UDFA's).
     
  16. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I think he can be any every down LB. I think the same of Van Noy as well. Both are future 3 down LBers. Ford showed he can drop in coverage in some of his tape.

    He blew past OTs. I believe he blew past Zach Martin and Jake Mewort and Seantrel Henderson, then in the 2nd half he was getting double teamed and chipped every down. He's gonna blow up the combine and run at least a 4.45 as well. I think he can add 7-10 pounds and still have that speed.

    Ford needs to improve strength at LOS in the run game. That's why I think he fits better as the Leo/Elephant OLB. He needs to develop better discipline in the run game force the RB inside, though his effort is well noted.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2014
  17. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    He's not an ILB, but its not because of his speed, he's faster/quicker than Te'o. Everwhere he's played, he's been up on the line, playing him off would have to rework the way he sees things, its actually a pretty tough transition. I dont see JJ being cut this offseason, he's done too much for us and has really earned this year on his contract. Whatever OLB were gonna get, will most likely need a "Redshirt" year of just being a situational pass rusher (how we used Barnes), especially if we draft a guy like Ford who may need more than a year of that, and he may never be anything more than that. Your right that SOLB is his best fit though, as he doesn't have the burst/quickness to beat LT's off the edge consistently, and the SOLB is usually the one you get some freedom with to move around and create mismatches, especially when there's no TE lined up on the line.
     
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  18. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    What's the consensus on Shaquil Barrett? Could he be a late round steal?
     
  19. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    Ideally, especially with a great pass rushing OLB, you dont want to drop him more than 5 times a game, just to throw them off balance and keep the OL guessing. So him dropping effectively isn't that much of a bonus IMO. He REALLY needs to get stronger. He can hold up when matched up on a TE, but he's bad trying to hold ground vs an actual OL, though he does keep contain fairly well. To be an every down player, he needs to get up to at least 250 as a rush backer. Like i said, he needs at least a year or two to get bigger and better as a run defender, hense the "redshirt" year i was talking about. Dont doubt that he COULDN'T do it, just that if he does (which is always a posibility that he just flops all together), that it would take some time.
     
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  20. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    I think he's someone being criminally underrated by a lot of internet pundits and is at worst a 4th round pick. The combine will be his proving ground and where his hype probably picks up some. That said, the same thing could basically be said about Steve Williams last year and he didn't rise any higher than early Day 3 despite having quality tape. I doubt he vaults himself to 2nd round consideration, but I could see a team popping on him as early as the 3rd round when all is said and done.

    Have to remember that when the actual draft shakes out we'll see guys that are "highly-rated" Day 2 guys right now falling to Day 3 or further, because it happens every year (e.g. Chase Thomas, Sean Porter, Oday Aboushi, Bacarri Rambo, Tavares King, Jordan Poyer, Da'Rick Rogers, Reid Fragel, Jawan Jamison... just to name guys from last year's class).
     
  21. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Ford was on only the biggest draftniks' radar 1 week ago, and nowhere close to a first round prospect anywhere. Just saying we should keep that in mind when you see sites like Walter Football put him in the top 20 this week as if they've known all along.
     
  22. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    He's a top 40 talent, but when he blows up the combine and blows away teams in his interviews, he'll most likely not make it out of the 1st round. He's a late 1st round pick for me, early 2nd, but at 25, I'd take him.
     
  23. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    He wasn't on everyone's radar, but there were a ton of people i follow that had him as a 2nd or 3rd round pick. NFL Draft Scout (CBS), and some others (draftTV, or shane Hallam i though liked him). The Media goes off college hype and most people go off the media's take almost exclusively. Most media sites caught on to him when Auburn started to make their run (and especially after Bama), and a lot of people noticed him then....

    Also the Senior bowl also gives these media guys to talk to actual scouts and get they're perspective on players, which is why you can see draft sites really raise guys grade from undrafted all the way to 2nd or 3rd round picks. So sure he wasn't on a lot of media draft boards, but that doesn't mean that the only reason he's being talked about now is the Senior Bowl. His tape in college is very good, at least in the pass rush department. Combine will matter, but his burst off the edge, active hands and absolutely INSANE ability to dip and turn the corner (which is absolutely ELITE) says you get a good pass rusher right away, and people pay a premium for that in the NFL.
     
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  24. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Well Walter Football. I never look at that crappy site except if I need a draft value chart or something like that.

    Wired via Nexus 5
     
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  25. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I just think the situation, and our scheme is perfect for him. He'll be behind either Freeney or Johnson or both and Ingram. He can get situational pass rush experience, and also have a year to gain weight and learn from veterans before they depart the following year and he then becomes a starter. Think thats the best way and most ideal to work him in.
     
  26. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    I could see it. He's as good as any. I'm just worried about him not becoming anything more than Antwan Barnes, that we can only use in certain situations, because he was never good enough vs the Run to warrant a starting position. That risk drops him down in my book, but as we can see with guys like Bruce Irvin, the guys who can fly off the edge come off the board early in this league. Even if they wont be a starter for at least a year or two, the way teams pass, you have to get to the passer, and an edge rusher is the easiest way to do that.

    It all comes down to the workout at the combine for me. If he shows he's athletic enough (which probably means at least a 4.40-4.55 40 (with a good/very good 10yd split), and a good 3 Cone (which i dont see being a problem for him)/20yd Shuttle/Vert), to warrant a 1st round pick, then i'm all for it. Otherwise i'd wait until the 2nd and go with whoever falls between Attouchu/Marcus Smith/Chris Smith/Michael Sam or a talented guy who falls for whatever (off field or lack of production) reason like Aaron Lynch. DeMarcus Lawrence/Carl Bradford interest me in the 3rd/4th round, but not much earlier than that unless they absolutey explode at the combine.
     
  27. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Are you kidding? Too slow for ILB? Please....
     
  28. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    First of all he's never played the position, so yes, he would be too slow for the position because he doesn't have the instincts ILBs do. Why would you want to change his position? He fits best at SOLB. He's not an ILB, and he's not a DE or DT.

    Ingram is explosive, but straight line speed, compared to the ILBs coming out now and running sub 4.6's, isn't there. I know we have Te'o, which I'm not a big fan of, but he did miss some crucial time at the beginning of the year so I'm willing to give him a pass for now.
     
  29. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Not saying we should switch him.... And i dont buy your reasoning. Ford was a DE but you think he is perfect for us at OLB? You don't know that and I dont either. I wouldn't go as far to say it. He needs work.

    I don't see why Ingram couldnt play some ILB. Not saying I even want him to. But if he doesn't cut it as an effective pass rusher maybe ILB might be a better fit him. He certainly isn't too slow for it.

    The guy runs well for his size, can cover as you mentioned. Can rush up the middle. Probably wouldn't be as big a change as you think. Its football and he is a good football player and is athletic.
    They could also move him around and rush from other areas like Miller does.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2014
  30. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    There's a difference between keeping a guy who was an outside pass rusher, and bump him out to OLB to keep him as an outside pass rusher and moving a guy who played either DE or DT in college to a true ILB, who will be mostly either filling in the run or dropping into coverage. Sure, he could take some snaps there, and he definitely did take a few snaps at OLB in a more true 43 look. But moving his main position there would be a mistake. But hey, for some reason Green Bay is moving 6'3" 270lb Nick Perry (who is really stiff to begin with) to ILB, and moving they're 6'4" 285lb DT to OLB...so who knows.

    Miller is a true OLB though, thats the thing your not getting IMO. Miller is 6'2" 240 and insanely quick/athletic for a guy his size. And Miller plays just as much off the edge as any OLB in our scheme, but the assumption that Denver is a 43 team makes people say he's a 43LB not a rush backer. Miller also plays in a scheme where when he's rushing, there's still two LB's over top that are in coverage (if they're not blitzing at least). Ingram, while quick and athletic, has the build of a DT at OLB, he jsut doesn't have the body to be a full time ILB, and i just dont see him as a guy who would have success dropping into coverage 15-20 times a game, which you have to do as an ILB.
     

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