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LBC and Duffman's "Watch List"

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by The LBC, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. Boltjolt
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    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    I'm not missing anything, lol.

    Miller played closer to 260 this season. It won't show on ESPN or on their roster but I've seen a article posted on that in a Broncos forum.

    I absolutely think he could play there if we end up with two better OLB pass rushers somehow.
    Just saying its a possibility. He is more athletic than Te'o. I can see him playing there at times.
    This all stems from me saying that Ingram has something to prove at OLB. It was stated that Ingram and Ford could be a better tandem than Merrimen and Phillips which I think right now is a joke. Ingram hasn't shown to be close to Merriman at OLB and of course Ford...I'm not sold is even a fit for us and needs work and needs to get bigger and stronger.

    Wired via Nexus 5
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2014
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  2. Jesse Kemp
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    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    I can only speak for myself, but I've liked Ford for quite a while. Not as a first round pick, but as a guy that I had right at the top of my 2nd round cluster (probably unrealistically). Some of the guys I follow on draft stuff have been touting him for a while now. But it IS kind of annoying when guys do well at the Sr Bowl and a bunch of guys who have barely paid attention to them all season start clamoring like mad.

    Two guys who I am more interested in are Attaochu and Martin. Both have good tape but got stuck at 4-3 OLB during the week because they didn't have enough true linebackers. Both looked very uneven because of that. But let them attack the LOS like Ford, and they're both effective players. Hopefully they stay under the radar.
  3. Jesse Kemp
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    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    Speaking of Dee Ford, I've been really confused by comments that he's a shoe in at 3-4 OLB. Seems like that assessment is based mostly on his size. But I've seen very little about his game to make me think he'd be anything other than a pass rush specialist as a rookie-- and a project in terms of playing a true linebacker role. If I were to give him a perfect fit, it would be as a LEO in a scheme like Seattle's or Jacksonville's. Actually seems like JAC's coaching staff was purposefully trying him out there to see if he would work for them in that role.

    Doesn't mean we couldn't draft him, but he'd need a lot of work in areas other than pinning his ears back from an even front.
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  4. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    I had Ford as a day 3 guy, after the senior bowl I'd guess he's probably worth a 2nd respectively. But I would not spend the 25th pick on him in this draft class, do whatever it takes to trade down and take him later or take one of the higher status guys that may slide unexpectedly like Dennard, Gilbert, Nix, or Hageman. Remember there is an extremely talented underclass that didn't get to play a game this weekend.

    The comparison was made to Antwan Barnes, and I think it's close to accurate.
  5. Jesse Kemp
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    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    I certainly think he would play a role like Barnes' as a rookie. The question is whether or not he would develop into more.

    Trading down seems like it could be our best option this year. A higher end talent could fall to #25, but otherwise it looks like the value kind of plateaus from the mid 20's into the 40's. If someone wants back into the 1st to get a QB, I'd be interested.
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  6. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Read the statement again.

    I never said they could be better, I said they could be the closest to the tandem we had. In regards of pass rush, I said they could be better overall OLBs, because both Ford and Ingram drop in coverage effectively, something Philips and Merriman didn't do much, because they weren't asked to.
  7. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I don't buy much into Gilbert, Dennard and Nix will be off the board I believe before we pick. And Hageman doesn't know use his hands effectively and doesn't have counter moves. He is still extremely raw as well.
  8. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    He can be both a LEO in JAX or SEA scheme, and can be a 3-4 weak side OLB to me. He needs to improve in the run game, but thats what we have JJ and Ingram for. There the SOLBs, and Freeney and Ford would be the more traditional pass rushing OLBs.
  9. Jesse Kemp
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    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    I agree that he can be a WOLB in a 3-4, but he's being described by many as a perfect fit. He's rarely operated from a two point stance, even as a pass rusher. I have no knowledge of this coverage ability that you've referred to. It would be a whole new ball game for him. Which is why I think he'd be strictly a nickel rusher as a rookie. That's not what I consider a perfect fit. More transition project with upside.
  10. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Pretty much agree with this. And barring some crazy stuff going down like last year (where 3-4 guys that most didn't have remotely pegged as going in the 1st all got selected there: Hayden, Long, Frederick, and Pugh - less so on Pugh) the positions where the value is likely to be at don't line up terribly well with our needs.

    Cyril Richardson really doesn't fit ideally into D'Alessandris' blocking scheme, nor is RG a position that particularly blows my skirt up when considering "great value" on a late 1st round pick. If Trent Murphy does have a quality combine, he's going to go higher than where we pick (again, he's the 2013 FBS sack leader and has length - teams like Cincinnati who will likely have a need at DE with Michael Johnson departing in FA would be all over him). WR is where the most value will be, and drafting a 1st round WR doesn't really have the immediate impact most of us would prefer (Keenan Allen's are rare - most rookie WR's are fortunate to post 500/5, not quite what you want out of the "starter" you'd be spending a 1st on). If we're not adapting the scheme to play press and continue with this zone/cushion heavy approach, the need for an early (i.e. really athletic) CB isn't as great (thus isn't as "valuable"). Maybe Calvin Pryor is viewed as more Antrell Rolle/Kenny Phillips than Earl Thomas and he slips. Maybe our staff falls in love with Lamarcus Joyner and decides they're willing to overlook his less-than-ideal height. Otherwise, I don't project a ton of really meaty value for us at the pick in areas of great need.

    The one nice thing... we sit right in front of Cleveland's second 1st round pick. If the Browns (or Texans) do pass on a QB with their first one, we're in the prime position to be fielding calls for teams wanting to get in ahead of the Browns for a Derek Carr or Johnny Football (though, sadly, the same part of me that was supremely confident that a team would spend a 1st on Tebow even though he wasn't worth it is supremely confident a team is going to do the same with a Top 10 pick for Johnny). The team to watch though that could be a real wild card is Jacksonville - given that their GM is a notorious BPA-all-day-everyday proponent and they could very well take Clowney with #3 then look to trade up with us to get ahead of Cleveland for a QB - or Minnesota... if they don't get someone they like at #8 - since they're a team that has no qualms about trading up for a player they like.
  11. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    That's why I said unexpected, IE: a player we didn't know would slide, like Sharif Floyd last year. An early run on QBs could change this draft for the better, maybe even allow us to trade back. Either way I don't think a good all star game makes Dee Ford a shoe in at 25.

    I see Hageman as a NT/DE anyway, any pass rush will be a bonus.
  12. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    It wasn't just the game though, he blew up practice throughout the week. I don't think OTs go into these games to make themselves look bad and effect their draft stock.

    His tape is real good, he had an excellent week of practice, and had an excellent game. He will blow up the combine, do well in interviews as well, and when its all said and done he will have a 1st round grade. I know interviews could be to hype himself up, but when he says he studies Lawrence Taylor and Reggie White, and says he wants to be as disruptive of a force as LT was at OLB in the NFL, you gotta applaud the guy.

    He came into Auburn's football program as a 190 pound freshman and put on 52 pounds by the time he left. He's a gym rat, loves the game, and is well coached.
  13. Boltjolt
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    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    I'm not trying to rain on any parade but pretty sure both of Fords sacks were against Seantrel Henderson who wasn't exactly lighting things up. He did speed by Brandon Thomas once as well but the play was a rollout away from him.

    I also have no reason to be negative about it but how do you know he is going blow up his interviews? That's just a total guess.
    That's like me saying he is a really smart guy though I've never talked to him.
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  14. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Yeah he blew past Brandon Thomas, Seantrel Henderson, and Jake Mewort.

    But if you saw his interviews throughout college and the senior bowl, his coaches and teammates talking about him as well, you get an idea of who he is. Obviously we don't know the questions they ask these kids at the combine, so your right it is a total guess, but when they ask about work ethic and football, there going to get real quality answers because the kid works hard at his craft, has dealt with adversity and pressure, and was well coached by Malzahn.

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