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Louis Nix at 25

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by Bolts4lyfe, Apr 20, 2014.

  1. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    San Diego Needs to beef up their interior defensive line, They can find just that by selecting Louis Nix at 25. Nix, 6'2 331 isn't just Limited to playing the "0" he is agile enough to split the A gap to rush the passer.

    Nix would also help benefit the defense by creating pressure inside by using his brute strength to drive offensive linemen back, (much like Antonio Garay did to Manning in 2010)



    Manning loves stepping into the pocket and attacking the inside seams to make plays, so filling his throwing lanes by obstructing his view is a key part to slowing down the Broncos.

    The pressure from the inside would also create one on ones for Ingram and Freeney, allowing them to create havoc on the edges. But, as much as I believe Nix would help our pass rush, I feel his natural focal point should be helping to stop the run.



    By him clogging up the middle lanes and pushing back the interior linemen, he forces the runners to run wide, Which is key to stopping the run in a 3-4 defense.

    Although the Chargers were ranked 12th against the run averaging 107.8 yards allowed per game, there were some games we soon wish to forget.
    Getting torched by the Redskins 209 yards 4 TD's,
    164 yards by the Bengals in a home loss,
    133 yards by the Broncos in that loss in the playoffs.

    It's no secret they need to improve their run defense knowing they're facing Jamaal Charles (2x) Darren McFadden and MJD (2x), Montee Ball (2x), in addition to CJ(?)k, Marshawn Lynch, Frank Gore, CJ Spiller, Ray Rice, Zac Stacy, Steven Ridley and Shane Vereen.

    If San Diego plugs Nix into the middle, any issues with the run would disappear. Having Nix take on the double team would allow the players around him to be more productive and make bigger plays.

    That would mean more production from Liuget, and Reyes to deflect more passes, apply more pressure, stopping the run and get more sacks.

    (as mentioned before) would immediately help the pass rush which in return would make lesser talent in the secondary more productive

    Would also free up Butler and T'eo and allow them to be more of a force while pursuing and attacking the ball carrier.

    Lissemore, began to play less and less down the stretch because he too showed to be more effective coming in for certain packages, would greatly benefit with the addition.

    Although with the good comes the bad, his production fell off, his knee issue, weight problems, is his heart in it etc. etc. only time would tell. TBH I feel having a big man sacrifice himself to make everyone else around him more productive is well worth a 1st round pick to me. As much I would want Fuller or Verrett, having a good Corner would only help that one area, and a good pass rush would help the secondary, while a good NT would help the entire defense.

    Nix would be a significant upgrade at the most important position in the Chargers defense. The Chargers have invested heavily into this front 7, why not invest heavily again? Just the thought of Nix, Liuget, and Reyes would scare any OC

     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  2. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff BoltTalker

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    I for one hope this isn't our pick at 25. With Lissemore the apparent front runner for now, I think we're seeing a definite intent to have a rotation at NT. Do we spend our 1st round pick on a rotational guy with inconsistencies?
     
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  3. Moses

    Moses Yeah Buddy!

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    If he's the guy who they deem best player available at 25 when it comes time to pick, I wouldn't have a problem with it at all. It's not a sexy pick, but it is an area of need.
     
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  4. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Not at 25..
     
  5. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    He might fall along way because he's being hammered as ONLY a 3-4 NT. He could make it to the second round where I'd seriously consider him. I'm still a big fan of Kerr & Ellis however.

    Still if the Chargers like him and believe they can get Nix circa 2012 not circa 2013, he might be worth the pick at 25.
     
  6. mettadown

    mettadown BoltTalker

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    I've seen a few mocks where he's fallen to us in the 2nd round, if we grab fuller in the 1st and nix in the 2nd I'd call that a win
     
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  7. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    This is in addition similar to Matilacks Morgan Moses thread, I think it would be a great idea (and time passer) to pick a player slated to go around 25, and make a case for them to be the pick. This is in no way my top player or pick for us at 25 set in stone, although I would love the addition of a big body in the center of our defense.

    As far a Lissemore being our front runner at the NT position, that is arguably by default. Towards the end of the season before he missed the last two play off games due to injury, Lissemore only played about 20% of the defensive snaps where he proved to be more effective in situational packages.

    To the point about not wanting a situational player at 25, I think Carolina who drafted both Star Loulelei and Kawan Short with the idea in mind that they would both compliment each others game as situational players, are very happy with their first two selections last year.

    Sure Louis Nix's production dropped from his 2012 season to his 2013, but I don't believe there is a player slated to go in the first round this season who's game hasn't. Clowney, Barr, Roby, Lee to name a few. Many of that has to do with injuries, and scheme. The idea that Nix has been highly productive shows he has been there before and is capable of doing it again.

    Like Lotulelei who was labeled a one trick pony (run stuffer) and had health concerns, Nix has a very similar drop, once touted as the top of the draft, and slowly dropped further and further down their board.

    Having invested heavily in our defense, Liuget (1st) Ingram (1st) Reyes (2nd) T'eo (2nd) Butler (7 year contract)
    It would be ideal to bring in a big body to secure those investments by improving the production of everyone.
     
  8. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    None of our NT's played more than 20% of the defensive snaps last season. It just goes to show that the intent of this defensive staff appears to be to only have an NT on the field when it's necessary to have one on the field and otherwise to have guys who are capable of getting pressure up the middle (for the record, that's the tried and true way of beating Peyton Manning). This wasn't to say that we didn't have someone playing the nose-guard position (or 1-tech) when we went to 4-man fronts, but rather that we moved one of our traditional 5-techs into that role rather than keeping one of our 2-gap NT's on the field.

    I'm not saying it's a particularly smart or effective scheme - and really that shouldn't matter because that's not what's up to debate in this topic as it's been established. Just that, based off what we've seen, our DC's don't utilize the traditional NT enough to really justify spending a 1st round pick on the position.
     
  9. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Also... please point me to where someone labeled Lotulelei "one-dimensional" and "only a run-stuffer". He was touted for his ability to be disruptive in the backfield by virtually every major credible source. Mayock was drawing Haloti Ngata parallels. Rob Rang couldn't shut up about his versatility. Prior to the questions about his heart popping up, he was largely considered a consensus Top 5 pick - you don't get that distinct being one-dimensional unless the pundits are just flatly ignoring the tape and making things up as they go.
     
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  10. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Pass Rushing

    Positives:

    - Good bull-rush; knows how to push the pocket

    - Leverage is excellent at the point of attack

    - Quickness of the ball makes him hard to handle in one-on-one situations

    - Has the ability and capabilities to develop into a great pass rusher with coaching

    Negatives:

    - Not a natural pass rusher

    - Doesn't have much of a rushing repertoire to fall back on

    - Rarely uses his hands

    - Inconsistent

    http://www.csnphilly.com/video_content_type/nfl-draft-scouting-report-star-lotulelei?page=1

    Other than a bull rush, Lotulelei doesn't offer a lot as a pass rusher. He needs to add counter moves to his game to be more effective against power blockers. Needs to come out lower more frequently. He can give up position he gets off the snap too high. Not used much in zone blitzes, though that shouldn't necessarily be used against Lotulelei.

    Negatives: Disappears too often — motor throttles. Still developing positional instincts. Late to feel blocking pressure. Lacks elite closing burst. Not special on third down — only seven career sacks. Weight has fluctuated in the past. Underachiever tendencies. Heart condition requires examination to determine long-term durability and viability — Combine physical revealed left ventricle was pumping at only 44 percent, which could affect stamina and long-term health.


    Weaknesses
    Inconsistent keeping his eyes in the backfield to find the ball and being violent with his hands to shed, but has improved here and is a dominant run-stopper when he does. Will get pressure, but probably won't be a dominant sack artist at the next level due to how he'll be used. Lacks flexibility to break down on open-field tackles, ball carriers can elude him in the backfield. Does not beat cut blocks with his hands, though he does a good job recovering for his size, gets back into the play
     
  11. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff BoltTalker

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    So this one scouting report is your counter? Cherry pick much?
     
  12. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    Cam played 48% of the defensive snaps on the balance of the entire season and was over 60% in some individual games.
     
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  13. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    This is what happens when Nix was double teamed in 2013. This is a concern, happens far too much in his play. WHY IS HIS BACK TURNED?! Really bad habit of his..
     

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  14. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    But herein lies the intrigue with Nix. He wasn't doing that in 2012. So which player are you getting?
     
  15. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Those are multiple reports in one post:tup:
     
  16. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Kevin Weidl ‏@KevinW_ESPN
    Went back and watched 2012 tape of Nix this morning. Quicker and more disruptive. Clearly was not 100% this fall.


    I think this was the case as well, I think the 2012 Nix is the one you'd be getting if he could remain healthy. The same goes for Roby, under a different circumstance of course. But I think in the right locker room, Roby will be the kid we saw in 2012
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2014
  17. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    And if that's true, you're not just getting a block eating blob. In 2012, Nix brought a lot of pressure up the middle. Looked like a 3 down NFL player. But I'm kind of throwing my hands up on this one. I want to think he'll be just fine, but all of the rumors on him are negative. It's liar's month, but it isn't often that you consistently hear the same things about a guy falling over and over again and it isn't true.
     
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  18. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    This is a coaching issue. He must be coached out of this bad habit. I don't have much faith in this coaching staff to coach players out of bad habits or develop them into a better player.

    He had the meniscus, which a man at his size, tends to wear down later on in his career. And you saw the difference in his play being nagged with that injury. Will he be nagged with that injury for the rest of career? I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see him bounce out of the 1st round. At 25, he just has too many question marks for me and the way we run our defensive scheme he'll get near 50 % of the snaps a game, if not less.

    If your asking me, based on 2012 tape who I am taking at 25 Roby or Nix, I'm going Roby. Roby's problems were more scheme related, while Nix's wasn't and he did lose talent around him in Te'o and Lewis-Moore, which leaves me suspect of how good Nix really is compared to the talent he has had on the D-line with another top 50 prospect going in this draft in Stephon Tuitt.
     
  19. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    I actually think it's a "playing too damn high" issue, which allowed offensive linemen to control and steer him like that. Which I would think is tied to the knee.

    The injury may nag him through his career. I'm not the one to say. And if it isn't looking good, it may also keep him out of round 1. But I do think it's fallacious to try and project how many snaps we'd give a difference maker at NT based on how many snaps we've given to journeymen like Thomas and Franklin. Superior players will be on the field more often. It's not like the Chiefs were fielding a NT on 90% of their defensive snaps before Poe came into his own.

    If you watch Nix in 2012, it becomes apparent very quickly that he was making his teammates better. Not the other way around. Heck, he looked like the only guy from Notre Dame who showed up in the National Champonship game.

    I like Roby and think he could do well here. And it is true that his issues are more correctable, while Nix's are related to health which is less controllable. But if you offer me the choice between the 2012 versions of him and Nix, it's the latter and it isn't close.
     
  20. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I'd say both represent about the same risk, and that in my opinion makes neither a 1st round prospect. But in Roby's favor, 2 gap NTs aren't as popular as they were 10 years ago, and the need CBs is at an all time high.

    That said, I'd take Roby.
     
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  21. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Coming off a meniscus injury? How well do you understand meniscus injuries?
     
  22. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    At his best, Nix was a better 1 gap player than 2 gap.
     
  23. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I agree, which begs the question why draft a 1 gap guy who plays in the 330-340 pound range?

    What do you think about Hageman moving to NT?
     
  24. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    I don't really care how big he is, as long as he can get the job done. Like Poe-- be one gaps plenty at 330+ and he's darn good at it.

    I don't think Hageman will be able to maintain pad level for the position. He already plays too high, and he's 6'6".
     
  25. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    I understand that he elected to have surgery to repair his meniscus rather than to have parts of the damaged tissue removed, which in the long term goal offers a better chance for it to return to its normal state with proper rehabilitation.
     
  26. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I'm not even sure the two are comparable because Poe is such a freakish athlete. I'm not convinced Nix at any point (pre injury or otherwise) has ever been that. He actually reminds me a bit of BJ Raji, who I liked more when he came out.
     
  27. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    This seemed like the best place to leave this. If folks are interested, I've got a lot of other articles similar to this bookmarked that are very good and interesting reads.

    Now Jerry Angelo was far from a perfect GM in his time in Chicago, but he does offer some particularly noteworthy insight into the draft process and in particular Draft Day and the goings-on inside war rooms.

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Managing-draft-day.html

    Also, I just want to say that I've become such a fan of NFP.com ever since they ran Russ Lande out of town.
     
  28. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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  29. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    I think you are confusing cause and effect. Our rotation was the result of none of our NTs distinguishing themselves. If one of those guys had out performed the others on a consistent basis, I think that would change. Obviously, you are going to have a rotation at such a physically grueling position. But if we had a top level guy, he'd get 65-75% of the snaps and the other guys would rotate in to keep him fresh.
     
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  30. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Again, none of us know that for a fact. We have what the evidence has provided us thus far. We can certainly speculate as to what's and why's but we can't pretend it's fact.
     

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