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Melvin Ingram out for season!

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Fouts, May 14, 2013.

  1. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    I like how when we still had Shaun Phillips the resounding cry was that we didn't need him because he made a couple boneheaded plays and had a few non-football related issues.

    But the second we lose Ingram to an unexpected injury it's "Oh my God, I wish we never let Phillips go, and I'll also complain about some 2nd rate LBer who also left, OH GOD, WHY?!?!?!"
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  2. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    But, I can certainly understand the complaints. Telesco should have known that Ingram was going to suffer a season ending injury in practice and thrown the bank at Phillips and the 2nd rate LBer that went to New York to counter-act the obvious pending injury that any dummy could have foreseen.

    And now that Ingram is gone we have absolutely no pass rush because everybody else on the defense just kicks back on the field after the snap smoking cuban cigars while Ingram rushes the QB all by himself.

    Corey Liuget and his 7 sacks, 9 QB hits, and 11 tackles for loss provided absolutely no rush last year for instance. It was all Ingram and his 1 sack, 2 QB hits, ad 4 tackles for loss, and now that's gone. Good job Telesco!
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  3. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Phillips signed for around $1 million base (plus incentives), if memory serves...... they just didn't want him. It would hardly have broken the bank to keep him around.
  4. hash_tag_nat
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    hash_tag_nat KISS THE RING.

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    Couldn't have said it betta brudda.
  5. ssnake86
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    ssnake86 BoltTalker

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    Wouldn't we cut Meachem before Royal? He's making more money and has been less productive than Royal. Royal is also one of the better punt returners out there.

    Didn't we sign Meachem to some ridiculous 4yr $28+million contract?
  6. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    I was obviously exaggerating, but the point was that I'm sure Telesco would have wanted to keep him and would have offered him something had he been able to anticipate losing Ingram for the season.

    You also have to take into account Phillips may have wanted to go somewhere with a perceived better chance of winning a SB, therefore it may have taken more than that 1 mil to bring him back to somewhere he may not have been as confident in winning.

    But the bottom line point is, having Ingram and not having Ingram creates two completely different dynamics for how someone may want to build a roster and, while the possibility of injury is always something you should account for in general, it's unreasonable to expect someone to specifically account for star players going down for the year in pre-season practices to the point of employing other starting players at that position "just in case".

    In fact, if you want to nitpick, letting go of Barnes is probably the more deserving criticism since you can argue that he's worthy of maintaining as a back up.
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  7. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Well, it still smacks of our LT position last year. Our whole downfall was due to a lack of depth.

    We were already thin at the OLB position, so we were not able to absorb a loss of one of our starters. Once more, we were relying on good luck to carry us through. A GM can't rely on luck.

    I can see valid reasons for letting Phillips and Barnes go, but you have to replace them with somebody. We have a similar situation at NT. Last year, we had three guys with experience in the rotation...... now we have one. At least, it looks like both UDFAs have talent, but to replace two vets with rookies is always a risky thing.

    That's why I've been saying that this team is in rebuilding mode. We had too many holes after the purging, to expect the team to bounce back right away. One draft (and one FA period) isn't enough to fix all the problems this team had. It's a transition year...... expectations should be realistic.
  8. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    I don't see how we were relying on good luck. I'm thinking we were relying on good coaching and talent development and Ingram was a part of that. (Someone not getting injured in practice is not luck)
  9. Bolts4lyfe
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    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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  10. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    It's times like this when I begin to question the reason I like sports. I hate all this posturing of what the team has to do coupled with the apparent lack of ability to grasp the concept of it taking two sides to agree on a contract. (If a player walks, the GM let him walk, if they don't sign someone else it's because they just didn't want to do it).
  11. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Really?........ somebody ALWAYS gets injured on this team. Or hadn't you noticed? Not having quality depth, is relying on luck. We didn't have depth at OLB even with Ingram. Having a couple UDFAs doesn't count.
  12. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Oh, I forgot to mention........ we have no depth at CB either. One injury there, and we're in the same situation. Safety, goes without saying. ;)
  13. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    You're right. I guess he should have two starting quality players ready to go at every position.

    I already responded to this before you even replied to me the first time in here.
  14. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    And if Rivers goes down we're screwed as well.
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  15. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Don't go flipping it to make it sound like I expect Pro Bowlers at every position. That's not what I was saying, and you know it.

    Two UDFAs is a far cry from having guys with at least some pro experience. Backups have to at least have the ability to come in when necessary and not stink up the joint. Our OLB "depth" is a total unknown. We don't even know if these guys are good enough to make the roster, much less fill in if need be.
  16. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    There's always Tebow. :laugh:
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  17. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    Why not? You're trying to make it sound like I'm saying we should never account for any chance of injury when my only argument is that it is unreasonable to plan for Ingram going down for the year in practice.

    One hyperbolic argument for the other seems fair to me.
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  18. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I fail to see how my argument was "hyperbolic"....... having a OLB rotation of Johnson, Ingram, English, and several rookies isn't what I'd call quality depth.

    We all know Johnson isn't a pass rusher. Ingram showed flashes last year, but wasn't that productive as a pass rusher. English has never been productive or healthy. You do see the problem here........ don't you?
  19. Sydalish
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    Sydalish Addicted to Sports

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    You're right WE don't - but I'm pretty sure Telescope and McCoy have better insight into the situation. Gaither was an obvious risk, one we were forced to take due to our circumstances. Not having a legitimate contingency plan there was ******* stupid. Ingram going down w/a season ending injury in early May? No where near an obvious risk. I don't believe they were done bringing in bodies anyway - but now it's just something we're all talking about as a higher priority because of the circumstances.

    The mess left behind for TT to clean up is complicated and I don't think it was going to be cleaned up in a single offseason BUT I've liked what he's done so far and how he's used what little he's had to make some moves. I've liked that his decisions don't appear to be panic based, even when it's hard for us as fans to handle.

    Lots of things can happen between now and TC and even the start of the season - can we not give TT the benefit of the doubt in MAY that not only was he not finished putting together back-up plans for the roster but that he's still capable of bringing in capable bodies?
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  20. Riff Raff
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    Riff Raff BoltTalker

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    I'll give him the benefit of there still being time & we as fans not knowing ****-all about his or McCoy's plans. Just remember - he has to work with both hands shackled by AJ-engineered handcuffs.
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  21. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    That's all well and good, but there just aren't many options left at the OLB position now. It's late in the game when it comes to roster building. That's just reality.

    I'm not trying to bash Telesco, just pointing out the "lack of depth" problem is still alive and well in Chargers park.
  22. Sydalish
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    Sydalish Addicted to Sports

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    Exactly my point - give the man a little room and time to maneuver before throwing in the towel on the season and saying he's screwed us by not having a back-up plan. Priorities have shifted but I'd be surprised if depth at OLB and CB were not on his list of to-do's, OLB just wasn't as important as LT until yesterday.
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  23. Moses
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    Moses Yeah Buddy!

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    Sucks for him first and foremost, thought go out to him, hope he can stay mentally strong and focus on recovering to 100%, whether that means his season is over or not isn't the issue, the young man has a long career ahead of him that comes first, so let's hope he can stay focused and motivated during his recovery and get that knee back to where he needs it to be.

    Secondly, obviously this put the team in a tough situation. We don't have a lot of cap room to work with, this also probably influenced their decision to let Barnes and Phillips walk. Hopefully we can get a good deal on a veteran, because we do need at least 1 more player now that Melvin is out. It's also a shame because he may very well have been a breakout candidate for this season, and while people have pointed out that we got a decent pass rush from Reyes and Liuget, it is also important to have someone on the outside to supplement that interior rush with some outside pressure.

    Lastly, let's just take a minute here and calm down. All is not lost. It sucks to lose Melvin, but that just means another guy is gonna have to step up. If we could get Freeney for a year, I think you could argue that we wouldn't be that much worse off at all, the only issue is whether we can afford Freeney AND a left tackle. Telesco has done a good job so far of taking the first steps in fixing AJ's mess, let's not panic at the first bad thing to happen.
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  24. Concudan
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    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I am not sure why everyone is jonesing for Freeney so hard. He has been injury prone of late, is expensive, getting old etc... Besides, I have never seen him play the OLB position well. Can someone enlighten me on this, I don't follow the Colts games very closely so maybe I am missing something.
  25. Bolts4lyfe
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    Ricky Henne@ChargersRHenne
    3m

    Consensus in locker room is Larry English is ready to step up in Ingram's place. Said Jarret Johnson, "Thank God Larry's here."
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  26. LT-Express
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    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Lack of depth was going to be there at many positions regardless if this happened to Ingram. I think what Syd was saying (correct me if I am wrong Syd) was basically that this team was already so far behind the 8 ball that it wasn't going to be fixed in 1 year. This is something that is going to take probably 3 years or so to get back in the right direction, because we have too many holes and just not enough bodies/money to take care of them all in 1 or even 2 offseasons.
  27. DenverBolt67
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    With a bad cap situation, have a ton of contracts expiring, poor drafts the last couple of years that limited the available depth, and the need to replace 10+ starters (between O and D), how can you seriously expect quality depth? It isn't like AJ who had been here for many year, who had many years to provide depth at LT, Telesco has had 1 off season with very little money and a lot of players to bring in in order to fill out the 53 man roster.

    Yes, this year is a mulligan in my eyes. That doesn't mean I expect them to be a 4 win team. I still expect improvements, and for them to build on it next year. So yes, this year is a transition year, but I also think that Telesco has done a good job based on the situation that AJ left for him
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  28. Bolts4lyfe
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    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    To be fair (for what its worth) Freeney was rated the 15th best 3-4 OLB last year, and 10th best pass rusher.

    We're in a situation right now where we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. Adding Freeney to a roster where it's pass rushers consist of English, JJ, Williams and a couple UDFA's could make or break our season. On one hand adding that extra skilled vet to a defense that is already very young and talented could be good enough to push us to that next level of getting to the play offs (hey stranger things have happened) but it'll also put us in a situation where we won't have much if any money left to sign Starks or anyone else, as well as not getting the opportunity to extend Butler before the season starts.

    We still have much to do to get over this hump but if some how some way they manage to find a way to get Starks and Freeney, call me optimistic but this team can very well turn into the sleeper team of the AFC West.

    If for nothing more, If Dean wants to make money, he'd have a much easier time selling tickets with Freeney, than to try to tells the fans it's worth every penny to see Larry the dancing bear

    Poor products on the field = poor production on the field.
  29. Blue Bolt
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    Oh, I've been saying all along that the Chargers had too many holes to expect a quick fix. I expected a couple years of drafts + FA acquisitions + player development to right this ship.

    But, what I was talking about was having depth players with experience, not just UDFAs. I know we're cap strapped, but we still could've found cheaper vets to fill out some of these positions. When we added Garay originally, or Alexander last year, are examples of vets who weren't expensive to sign.
  30. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    The problem with Freeney, is that at his age, he's best used as a situational pass rusher...... the role Barnes was in. But, he still wants to get paid big money as a star player and be an every down guy. He's not ideally suited as a 3-4 OLB, he's slowing down, and he isn't willing to accept a reduced role or salary.

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