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mock draft

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by charger1993, Feb 17, 2014.

  1. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    He also worked out Trai Turner out of LSU. I'm not touching Kouandjio til the late 2nd-3rd round. That knee injury scares me off even though its been cleared up, but also think he's strictly an OG at the next level.

    Interesting stuff about Logan Thomas. I like him as a QB. Perfect for McCoy to groom and develop. He has trouble with his mechanics, which McCoy and Reich can clean up. His arm strength and zip on the ball are something else. Guy has a cannon.
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  2. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    Well all these players need coaching, but what worries me about Barr is his clear lack of killer instinct. He doesn't fire off the ball nearly enough, he doesn't use his hands well, he struggles shed blocks, and he doesn't really have any go to pass rush moves. At this point he's basically just a pursuit player, he's not going to win at the POA but if he gets a clear line on the ball carrier or scrambling QB he can make a play.

    I'm not blown away by Ford either, I think there is a huge drop off after Mack, and then a cluster of guys who are good prospects with concerns here or there.

    Upon further review, I think Van Noy may actually be one of the safer picks of this OLB/DE group. He seems like a plug and play guy, even though his ceiling might be lower than desired.
  3. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    Logan Thomas has been creeping around the perimeter of my mock drafts, if he is willing to give up any hope of playing QB, and he shows any sign of being comfortable running routes.....I might even plug him in at 89, definitely at 125.

    Then I remember we have Gates under contract 2 more years, and Green who already doesn't get to play enough, and a ton of other holes on the roster and I think Thomas would be a huge luxury, albeit an exciting one.
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  4. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Certainly all players need coaching. They just need that extra kick in the rear and close attention. Barr is still very raw. I agree with everything you've said, he relies on his speed way too much, he is still developing as a pass rusher and instincts. But he is very explosive.

    Van Noy is certainly a plug and play player. But, what you've seen is what your going to get with him. Guys like Attaochu, Barr, Lawrence and Lynch have that excitement to grow into an elite talent.
  5. LT-Express
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    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I am not on the Van Noy wagon by any means. However, me preferably I would rather take the " you know what your going to get" guy, over a guy with upside. Betting on upside scares me, because its a much bigger risk than reward in most cases .

    If we had few holes to fill, I could see taking a huge upside player at 25. However, we need immediate help right now, at quite a few positions. Not 3 years from now.
  6. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Very true. But, those "what you see is what you get" players may struggle a bit when adapting to the NFL game. But, they seem to find their niche sometime during their rookie season with experience.

    Upside comes with the boom or bust factor. But, when you have guys like Dwight Freeney, Jarrett Johnson and Melvin Ingram ahead of you at OLB and guys with very good work ethics and character, you learn a lot. Look at guys like Thomas Keiser, Reggie Walker and Tourek Williams who don't have the talent as the previous guys ranked above but picked Freeney, Johnson and Ingram's brains and watched them in pre-season and the regular season and we're able to apply that knowledge to put in some decent production.
  7. Jesse Kemp
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    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    Kony Ealy is the opposite of stiff. He plays with great bend. Probably my favorite trait of his. Didn't get a lot of chances to show it being inside so often, but it's there.

    He's not a first step explosion type of guy, but he's powerful, has upside as a guy who can use his hands to devastating effect, and will bend around tackles with the best of them.

    I would go nuts for him at #25.
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  8. Jesse Kemp
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    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    A guy who doesn't get nearly enough attention is James Gayle. I don't know where he'll actually end up going, but I like him more than a lot of the 2nd/3rd round prospects.
  9. Jesse Kemp
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    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    1. J. Clowney
    2. K. Mack
    3. K. Ealy
    4. A. Barr
    5. J. Attaochu
    6. D. Ford
    7. A. Lynch
    8. T. Murphy
    9. D. Lawrence
    10. J. Gayle
    11. M. Smith
    12. C. Bradford
    13. J. Jeffcoat
    14. K. Martin
    15. T. Reilly
    16. S. Crichton
    17. A. Hubbard
    18. C. Smith
    19. S. Barrett
    20. H. Jones
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
  10. SuperCharger92
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    Yeah, I've heard some say James Gayle could be the best DE/OLB taken in this draft outside of Clowney and Mack.

    Two others are Shaquil Barrett and Morgan Breslin.
  11. Bolts4lyfe
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    Middle Tennessee State defensive tackle Jimmy Staten is scheduled to visit the San Diego Chargers, according to a league source.

    The 6-foot-3, 311-pounder was an All-Conference USA honorable-mention selection.

    The Georgia native recorded 30 tackles, two hurries and a pass deflection last season.

    He bench pressed 225 pounds 30 times at his campus Pro Day workout.
  12. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    I see the potential, my question is where is the production?

    Also I've heard he struggled in LB drills at his pro day.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  13. ssnake86
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    ssnake86 BoltTalker

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    I don't understand the hate for Roby. I would be ecstatic if the Chargers picked him at 25. He was the top CB prospect in the country a year ago! More importantly hes a better scheme fit for the Chargers with a higher ceiling than Dennard or Verrett. He would instantly be the #1 corner in our system primed to go against #1 WRs, because he excels so much in zone which is what we primarily run. His drop of in performance was due to Ohio State putting him on an Island all season. He has the potential to be better in man coverage, but needs to learn better technique. This is illrelevent at first when it comes to the Chargers. He can instantly succeed in our system and it will hide his weaknesses. Then he can get better with good coaching with man over time. In Paganos scheme were getting the Roby of 2012 not 2013, and his natural athletic ability makes him have more upside than Dennard or Verrett. If every other team is higher on other CBs we should trade down, and nab Roby, Attachou/WR(Latimer), and Nix all at once. If not I have no problem grabbing Roby at 25. I'm sure TT sees that Roby is a perfect fit in Paganos stubborn system.
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  14. Jesse Kemp
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    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    It's a fair question.

    If disruption is production, then Gayle is incredibly productive. He's constantly around the QB. The question is why aren't more of his pressures turning into sacks. My theory is that he was the Hokies' primary pass rush threat and he rushed almost exclusive from one spot: from the LE spot. So perhaps QB's, who were already looking for him, were able to throw the ball away or break contain because they'd be able to see him coming?

    That's my best guess. Seems to be what goes on if you watch him. Lots of scrambles or throwaways when Gayle is closing.

    I really like him. That burst/bend combo is real. Not even totally lost in coverage.
  15. JohnnyX
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    I think it could be character issues, plus I don't much like our D staff coaching up players. The TALENT is all there, he just needs good pass rush to blossom.
  16. ssnake86
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    ssnake86 BoltTalker

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    Well that's the thing he needs very little coaching in our scheme which runs zone 70% of the time. It could be argued he's the best cb in the draft when it pertains to this. He needs to be coached up for the rest, but that's only 30% of what we run. He has all the talent and ability to be amazing eventually as a man to man corner. Yes there is risk there, but I don't see any risk with what our secondary does 70% of the time. 2012 is proof of this. Fuller is the only Cb I would consider over Roby IMO. It could still be said Roby offers more upside. I'll be happy with either.

    What are the character issues? If TT doesn't see it as a problem then I wouldn't be concerned with it. He seems to make character an emphasis.
  17. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    Actually we run A LOT more off-man, than actual zone with the CBs. My problems with Roby...

    - Very slow to diagnose short and mid-range routes, or he's just making no attempt to stop them.
    - Poor ball skills, he doesn't turn and locate the ball well. He loses most 50/50 jump balls.
    - Questionable work ethic.
    - Arrested for a bar fight before 2013 season.

    I don't care how fast he is, if he can't diagnose quickly, and make a play on the ball it's not going to mean anything if he can run in the 4.3s. Honestly based on how he lined up I think he's scared guys are going to get behind him, which suggests lack of confidence, which is a big red flag for a CB.

    He's saying all the right things to attempt to alleviate the concerns about his work ethic, but that is expected, all these players are coached by their agents so I hold no stock in that. His case actually reminds me a lot of Antoine Cason when he came out, a similar rollercoaster college career. Despite a whole bunch of teams meeting with him he's one of those guys I wouldn't be surprised to see fall a long way.
  18. Bolts4lyfe
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    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Quote from Kyle Posey from BFTB

    Roby played exactly 2/3 of his snaps in off man coverage. The Chargers play about the same amount of off man. Roby is at his best when he’s in off man coverage, that’s when he looks like a top 10 talent. He reacts well, and his speed is apparent when he’s going to break up passes or break on the ball. He’s predominantly in position to make a play. Roby had about 5-7 bad, bad plays in 2013. These get magnified and people think he’s awful. About 3-4 of those came against Abbrederis(aka the best route runner in the class.) All these plays came when Roby was put on an island. News flash: You’re going to get beat when you’re on an island. The fact that it didn’t happen more is a credit to Roby.
    Roby actually got better in 2013, he improved on his ability in the run game and became a more complete player. Instead of focusing on the couple things he can’t do(gets caught peeking in the backfield, playing high), focus on the outstanding things he does, like filling running lanes, chasing down players from 40 yards away, reading the QB in zone, baiting the QB to think the WR is open only to jump the route. You’ll see a big difference in Roby when he has a safety over the top of him. Much like we did in 2012, when all he did was dominante week in and week out.

    I have Verrett rated higher, yes. I’ve went back & watched as Much Roby/Verrett as I can and it’s much closer than before. Verrett has the same issues, peeking in the backfield. He also wasn’t as good in the run game, and his strength was the deciding factor. There were too many times when Verrett was in play to break the play up, and simply couldn’t do anything about it. Both players graded out to a late 1st rounder, Roby has better tape for a longer period of time against better WRs. The decision wasn’t really that hard.
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  19. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    So basically Mr. Posey is saying when put 1-1 Roby is going to struggle more than when he has a safety over the top......awesome analysis from BFTB. Oh and that we run pretty much the same system Roby looked so poor in last year.

    Personally it's as simple as I trust Verrett to break up a pass, more than I would trust Roby. Roby doesn't give up that many big plays (Verrett gives up almost none), but he completely surrenders the short field, and looks downright awkward when he has to turn and run with receivers and get a hand up to make the play. Even the height advantage is nullified by his inability to win those 50/50 balls.

    In the NFL weaknesses like that have a tendency to eventually get exposed. So even if he really does play slightly better run defense I'm going with the guy who looks like he belongs out there 100% of the time.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  20. Bolts4lyfe
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    Basically I'm just posting any news, notes, and inputs I see as we get closer to the draft, I neither like or dislike the idea of Roby on our team although I would be excited and welcoming to the idea if he were selected. (via Fluker, who made me look very foolish for hating that pick last year)

    Fuller is still my horse in this race although I am showing interest in Timmy Jernigan based off of my thinking (given the main interest we showed in Mitchell and through draft visits) that we maybe shying away from the idea of bringing in a traditional NT and looking for a player who can play 0,1, and 2 for versatility when they get creative and disguise their schemes. Plus Telesco has stated how he wants to get faster on both sides of the ball, and not only is Jernigan strong enough to take on the double team, he also has the burst and quickness to get to the backfield to disrupt the passer, which would greatly help our pass rush
  21. ssnake86
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    ssnake86 BoltTalker

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    Um no thats not what hes saying at all. Basically saying something very similar to what I did. 2/3rds of what we run is to his strengths and thats when hes a #1 cb(like 2012).

    Interesting comments about him actually overall improving in 2013 and his performance being blown out of proportion. He makes a point that all his bad plays were when he was playing press man to man,

    The more I read and think about Roby the more he seems like the best fit for us. The perfect combination of talent,upside, and scheme fit for it to work out perfectly for both parties. He can be instantly plugged in and do more fhan just improve us but be an elite prospect due to the scheme fit. Then he has the ceiling and upside to be something special a few years from now. What more could you want?
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
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  22. Jesse Kemp
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    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    The issue is being confused because people aren't distinguishing between press man and off man coverage (they're both "man to man").

    Roby got into trouble when asked to press at the LOS with no safety help. But when allowed to play off, he fared better. Both are man coverage, but the cushion made a big difference for him.

    I would still take Fuller or Verrett over him, but he wouldn't be a terrible pick. Better than Gilbert, in any case.

    On nose tackles-- If one watched Nix in 2012 when he was healthy, it's not hard to see that he's capable of both two gap and one gap approaches to the position. In other words, at 100%, he'll eat double teams OR disrupt upfield depending on what's asked of him.

    The question is, and has been all along: are you getting the healthy, 2012 version of him or are you getting the limited 2013 iteration?
  23. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    Fuller and Verrett are 1 1a in my book right now, I'd be fine with either. I just think Roby's ceiling is maybe a strong 2, and his floor is.....eh Will Middlebrooks, Marlin Jackson haha Whenever I look back at some of the biggest busts in the draft, more often than not it's the same story, sky high physical gifts; questionable FBIs.

    If we had the roster of a San Fran or Seattle or even Denver I wouldn't mind as much, but I don't think we can take risks like that right now. JMO.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
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  24. ssnake86
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    Thank you for clearing that part up. My bad. Regardless if its off man or zone, my point is the same though. The scheme fit masks his current weaknesses and plays to his strengths. This makes him a top 10 talent for us. Then he has the althetic ability and upside to improve in the other areas with good coaching.

    I'd take him over Verrett due to his height and strength. Their speed is equal. Just like Posey said there are times when Verrett is simply unable to make a play due to his height disadvantage. I'm not denying hes the more sound all around player right now(but once again our scheme will mask this). But height and strength are not things you cant teach.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  25. Jesse Kemp
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    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    Verrett is pretty strong. If there's a difference there, it's negligible. I'll take top notch instincts and ball skills over 1 1/2 inches of height.
  26. Duffman57
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    Alright i'm gonna do a little bit of a different type of mock draft, or at least different from what i have been stuck on lately.

    1st: Brandon Cooks WR, Oregon State (This guy is PERFECT for our offense, he's got all kinds of speed, but is a physical little guy, and is tough as nails. He's an incredible run after the catch threat, a great return man, and can even take the top off of the defense, which is something that we really need.

    2nd: Jeremiah Attaochu/Marcus Smith OLB, Ga Tech/Lousville (We need some pass rush, real bad, and despite not needing a starter immediately, JJ and Freeny and likely English are almost for sure gone at the end of the year, leaving us a huge need rushing the passer, and this is a position where you ideally want to give a guy a little time to develop while getting a chance to rush the passer.

    3rd: Phillip Gaines CB, Rice (May not be here, but this dude has all the talent in the world, and great tape. He could really be a good corner, and is pretty scheme diverse because of his awareness and athleticism, so he gives us some freedom)

    4th: Cam Flemming OG/OT, Stanford (I dont know what it is, but every time i watch him, he seems like he'd be a perfect fit for Joe D's RG spot. Solid feet, even for an OT (personally think that he can stay at RT in the right system), and blocks well on the move. He can get movement in the run game. I'd be excited if we could grab him.)

    5th: Zach Kerr NT, Deleware (This is where a lot of people have him rated, but I think he is a 3rd or 4th round player. He's a standout NT prospect that is at a smaller school right now, but transfered from Penn State, i think, maybe maryland, i kind of forgot. But he's incredibly strong, has solid athleticism, and is a really smart, emotional player that i could see Telesco falling in love with.)

    6th: Terrance Mitchell/Dexter McDougle CB, Oregon/Maryland (I love my dude T Mitch, and i think that he'd be a good fit with us. He's not a lights out DB, but he's an incredible option as a spot starter and a backup. He's got good instincts, and just amkes a lot of plays breaking on the ball. As for McDougle, i think he's going to fall down boards because he was injured last year and is small, but the guy can play, he's a guy who would've possibly been an option in the 4th or so had he been healthy the whole season, rather than him only playing in 3 games last year. I thought about Colvin here as well, but i'm kind of torn on what he brings to the table.)

    7th: Tyler Larson C/OG, Utah State (I thought we might want to grab a C to compete with or potentially replace Hardwick after this year once his contract is up. Just the best one IMO that I saw projected around this area)
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  27. Bolts4lyfe
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    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    25
    DT LOUIS NIX III
    NOTRE DAME
    57
    OT JOEL BITONIO
    NEVADA
    89
    CB PHILLIP GAINES
    RICE
    125
    WR CODY LATIMER
    INDIANA
    165
    CB AARON COLVIN
    OKLAHOMA
    201
    DE CHAZ SUTTON
    SOUTH CAROLINA
    240
    DT EATHYN MANUMALEUNA
    BYU


    Or



    25
    CB KYLE FULLER
    VIRGINIA TECH
    57
    DE MARCUS SMITH
    LOUISVILLE
    89
    C MARCUS MARTIN
    USC
    125
    WR CODY LATIMER
    INDIANA
    165
    CB AARON COLVIN
    OKLAHOMA
    201
    DT ZACK KERR
    DELAWARE
    240
    DT EATHYN MANUMALEUNA
    BYU
  28. ssnake86
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    ssnake86 BoltTalker

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    1st
    Bradly Roby/Kyle Fuller CB -whichever is available. Both instantly upgrade us, but I don't think Fuller will make it past Cinci or Philly.

    2nd
    Louis Nix NT- I'm predicting a pretty decent fall here. A fall is very likely, but I don't know if he'll make it to 57. I could see us trading up 5-10 spots to secure him. This would be huge for us to nab him here, and I have a feeling its possible.

    3rd
    Cody Latimer WR - or the best WR available

    4th
    Cam Flemming OG

    5th
    Aaron Colvin CB- I really really hope we nab this guy in the later rounds. Could be huge for us in 2015.

    6th
    Micheal Sam DE/OLB- I mean why not?

    7th
    Tyler Larson C- Really like a developmental C pick here. Dont really know who, so I'm stealing from you up above Duffman57 :).

    or


    1st
    Timmy Jernnigan NT

    2nd
    38th pick- trade for a 4th round pick
    Bradley Roby/Jason Verrett- which ever is available. One of the top CB will fall to the 2nd round. If we nab the top NT in the 1st then I could see us trading up in the 2nd round for the best CB prospect available the same way we did last year for Te'o.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014
  29. Bolts4lyfe
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    3 more weeks:cautious:

    I have been hearing recently how many teams, agents, and analysts hate the later date, I hope they go back to April 28th in coming years.
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  30. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    New mock...

    25 - CB Kyle Fuller: Just cuz I'm tired of always having Verrett at the top. I'd be delighted with either player.
    57 - WR Cody Latimer: Stock is rising at breakneck speed. Very similar to Keenan Allen.
    89 - NT Zach Kerr: Worth a bit of a reach, can be productive at both 1 and 2 gap assignments.
    125 - RET DeAnthony Thomas: If we're going to play the time of possession game, lets at least try to have good field position.
    165 - OLB Aaron Lynch: Lets swing for the fence, plug him in as a backup (cut Keiser, Williams, and English) and see if we can get lucky.
    201 - C/OG Russell Bodine: Could start at RG this year, possibly C next year. Very good second level blocker.
    240 - OT Cornelius Lucas: At 6'9 320 he reminds me a ton of King Dunlap, a little soft but has good feet. Could develop in an NFL weight room.

    I wanted to pull the trigger on a Van Noy or Attaochu at 57, but I don't think either will be there. And upon further review I'm just not sure Marcus Smith has the natural ability to bend around the edge, or the raw strength to be worth the 57th pick.

    The effects of us basically opting out of FA are very evident. It'd have been nice not to have to worry about WR, or a return man, or an OG and just focus on padding defensive depth.

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