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Mock Drafts

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by SuperCharger92, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    You do realize, Gaither will most likely be back with this team. As much as you don't like it, Telesco is band-aiding that up, and signed a solid back up in King Dunlap.

    If we do go OT in the first 2 rounds, they will most likely start at ROT, unless Gaither is surprisingly cut. And the fact we're in the market for a ROT, leads me to believe Clary will be the one cut and not Gaither. You can't cut two OT's in the same off-season and expect to have a better O-line then the one we had last year. Larry Warford is the best OG in this draft outside of the hype given to Chance Warmack and Jonathan Cooper, and could start from Day 1.

    Star Lotulelei won't just 'give Cam a breather.' Cam Thomas has basically done nothing to warrant himself the starter at NT in 2013. Lotulelei is one of the most versatile D-linemen we might have seen in a while. You draft him, and you could arguably have one of the most versatile and dominant defensive fronts in the NFL, with Liuget, Lotulelei, and Reyes. All 3 could play the NT, which means all 3 could rotate across the line.

    I would not at all go CB or OLB before NT. Your front 7 is where you set the tone for you defense. Next year's cornerback class we can afford to go CB in the 1st cause there is about 3 intriguing CB prospects that will be All-Pro's in the NFL one day. And OLB, we have Johnson and Ingram for now, and we'll need to either sign one or draft one, like I do going with Jamie Collins, very versatile OLB to rotate in.
  2. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    No way!

    Lotulelei could play in any scheme across the line. He played over the center many times at Utah, and watch his game against USC where he man handled Khaled Holmes.
  3. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Me neither, but we need something behind Rivers, something new, young and to develop. Whitehurst needs to be cut, and will save $1.3 towards the cap.

    Dysert will fall I believe due to his injury, but I think a 6th round pick for him makes him valuable. We're obviously looking at QB's to draft this year to place behind Rivers to develop. And really in the 6th round, there is nothing there that is going to fill a need right away.
  4. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I'd love to see an o-line looking like this,

    LOT: Jared Gaither, King Dunlap
    LOG: Larry Warford
    C: Nick Hardwick, Colin Baxter
    ROG: Chad Rinehart, Johnnie Troutman
    ROT: Free Agent, Menelik Watson

    defensive front 7,
    LDE: Kendall Reyes, Vaughn Martin
    NT: Star Lotulelei, Cam Thomas, Vaughn Martin
    RDE: Corey Liuget, Damik Scafe
    LOLB: Melvin Ingram, Larry English
    ILB: Donald Butler, Free Agent, Gerald Hodges, Jonas Mouton, Andrew Gachkar
    ROLB: Jarrett Johnson, Jamie Collins
  5. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    The thing is, despite the fact that Phil has missed all of no starts in his career due to injury, that doesn't mean we shouldn't have a competent back-up behind him. I loathe the term "develop" a QB, because people get too caught up in thinking that Tom Brady is the rule and not the exception. Among current starters in the league there are 5 that weren't 1st round picks (Brady, Schaub, Kaepernick, Dalton, Wilson - and 3 of those 5 were relatively high 2nd round selections) - with two outliers right now depending on who the starters end up being in Arizona and the Jets where even one of those was a 2nd round pick (Drew Stanton in Arizona.


    In the current era (i.e. since Tom Brady broke out), QB's with "starters' tools/potential" don't fall past the 2nd round unless they've got a legitimate ding against them (in Russell Wilson's case it was his short height, in Ryan Mallet's case it was character concerns and a history with cocaine). At best, I could advocate spending a 7th on a potential backup QB, whose ceiling topped out as just that, the same as I would any other priority UDFA. But anyone with visions of us drafting someone in the 4th or 5th round and developing them into Rivers' successor is honestly kidding themselves. Any player with starter upside will be gone by the close of the 3rd round - no matter how raw - that's just the premium on starting caliber QB's that exists in this league. As for life after Rivers, if/when we decide to move on from Philip then unless we've had the luxury of investing a premium (1st round or high 2nd round pick) in a player with proper upside to groom behind him, we're going to have to suck up the fact that we'll either have to pay a premium to trade for a developed guy already on another team, to trade up in the 1st round to get a premier QB prospect in a draft class, or to suck for a year in order to get our hands naturally on said requisite premium pick.
  6. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Wait? Man-handling Khaled Holmes is the standard for being a dominating DT? If so then half the DT's on USC's schedule the past two seasons qualify.
  7. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I was just saying, he man handled a top 5 player at his position, which is center, even though he might be a much better fit at OG in the NFL.
  8. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Again, poor justification. "Top 5 player at his position" is misleading - not to mention wrong, especially when you consider the amount of players of higher caliber than Holmes that have shown to be capable of playing multiple positions including center. Should a RDE be given some great praise because in one or two games he beat up on a particular LOT simply because that LOT happens to be the best in a weak class of LOT's? What if that LOT wouldn't even have cracked the Top 10 among LOT's in a previous year's class?

    Moreover, Cooper, Jones, Frederick, Schwenke, and Quessenberry are all superior center prospects to Holmes (who is severely scheme limited, a walking injury waiting to happen, and has a more than questionable anchor), and I could make a strong case for 2-3 others being better than him (Stankiewitch, Lonergan, and Eric Herman... possibly even Jeff Baca as center may be his best pro fit).
  9. Boltjolt
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    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Id say it is 50-50. We have no idea what their plans are. If they cut him, Deano saves 4.5 million for himself. You dont think he cares about that?

    IF we sign Winston.....he will be the RT and we draft a LT with King Dudlap as depth and hopefully we get another OT somehow.

    If they draft Star at #11, id be disapointed as well. Franklin only played 285 snaps in 12 games so Cam played more than him. He is quite capable but will need to get another NT somehow whether it be in the draft or from someone getting cut.
  10. Boltjolt
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    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Actually there is a tidbit thru ESPN that said Gaither could be released in a couple of weeks. Cant find the link but alledgedly is was thru the UT that ESPN picked that up.
  11. Bolts4lyfe
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    From what I read Ghelken said, April 1st when players have voluntary workouts, Could be the date. Possibly trying to get a feel on how motivated he is. If he even shows up.
  12. Riff Raff
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    Sounds like Acee stirring the sh!t because he can't get as much info from McCoy as he got from his butt-buddy AJ. Not saying that Gaither won't be cut, just haven't seen anything credible yet to support it.

    As for Acee, here's an example of his latest craptastic adventures in "journalism" ....

    http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/mar/19/Spanos-McCoy-Telesco-energized/

    Butt-hurt much, Kev? :laugh:
  13. Boltjolt
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    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Dont agree. A late round QB does nothing for us. Whitehurst isn't making that much and if they want to develope another , use a higher pick and get a more talented QB. But, this year we don't need one. QB imo for this draft is a wasted pick much like ive seen some drafting a kicker for us just because they don't like Novak.

    And where do you see they are obviously looking at QB's?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. LT-Express
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    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    You do realize, Gaither is also a lazy piece of ****, and we don't even know weather or not he will show up. You state above in bold, that Cam hasn't shown anything to warrant being a starter. So flipping that around to this conversation, what has Gaither done to prove that he is our guy at LT? Played a couple of good games, got a big contract then disappeared? Because AJ gave him a bunch of money? We all know Gaither's potential, and what he can be. But the fact still remains we don't know which guy will show up. The lazy one collecting a check? Or the one that wants to compete and hopefully his back doesn't lock up?

    Just in case you were wondering Phillip Rivers has been sacked 117 times in the past 3 years. This problem started because of AJ's inability to pull the trigger on premier O-lineman early in the draft, and in FA. We relied heavily on late round projects, and this line the past 3 years showed us that. At what point is enough...enough?

    Now as far as Star goes. No one is questioning his ability and what he brings to the table on the defensive front. However, this isn't a team that has the luxury of very few holes to fill, and are able to draft a guy that we already have capable bodies at the position. We no longer are a team that can draft BPA on just about every pick. The fact is we have more holes to fill these days than a pimp in the red light district, and we need to start addressing those needs with top tier talent.
  15. DenverBolt67
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    Agree. Unless the person is going to take Whitehursts job, drafting a QB would be a waste. I don't ever want to see 3 QB's on the roster, it is a total waste of a roster spot
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. The LBC
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    Sorry, but I call BS on that bit. Need-based drafting is what you do when you DON'T have many needs, not the other way around. When you have multiple holes that means you're devoid of high end talent in multiple facets of your roster - that's precisely the situation that calls for a largely BPA approach because, put simply, talent is talent.

    You aren't going to find many rosters in the NFL who have "very few needs". San Francisco you could make a case for, Seattle is debatable.

    Am I saying that need goes completely out the window? Hell no. Neither is Telesco. Neither does common sense. However, "need" isn't a singular year matter. Face facts, Cam Thomas is a 5th round selection who has done little to establish himself as a viable starter at a crucial position for the defensive formation we run now into his 4th year as a pro. He's going into a contract year. So last I checked, regardless of whether Jared Gaither is, was, or will continue to be a lazy bastard, NT is a need for us. The only reason you turn down blue-chip prospects when they fall to you in the draft is poor scheme fit (and even then an argument could/should be made that you fit your scheme to your players, thus you should still draft them and adapt the scheme to incorporate their talents) or the presence of elite talent already on the roster at said position (and again, that's really only an argument when you're a team that has fewer than average holes).

    However, I'm still trying to grasp how it is that we HAVE to be needs-based drafters, unless people are still clinging to the belief that this is a one-year turnaround to deep-playoff-run contenders, which isn't the case barring extraordinary luck (and ours is a team from San Diego - "luck" is not an applicable word in our lexicon) or a case success that's largely a case of the win column not being indicative of the product on the field (see last year's Colts, the year prior's Buccaneers).
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I agree with everything you said. I'm not saying we draft a QB in the 6th round to develop into Rivers' successor at all. I'm saying, draft a guy in the 6th round, who has good potential but their draft stock has taken a hit for some reason. And also, what exactly is Charlie Whitehurst going to do with this team if he is put in for an injured Philip Rivers? You honestly think he's going to win us some games? Cause I don't. The fact we're paying him $1.5M is sickening, considering how he holds the clip board.

    I know the value of a back up QB, but I just don't see the need in paying one a good chunk of money. I rather draft a guy, 1.) cause it's cheaper, 2.) he can develop with great coaching.

    Btw, I don't think anybody touches Mallet until the later rounds if New England didn't have Bellicheck there, and an aging QB, who is considered one of the best of all time.

    But, I could also name a good amount of 1st round-2nd draft picks that we're starters in the NFL who've became complete busts, out of the league, and looking for or is a back up.
  18. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Its been reported we've interviewed Matt Scott and others and we're very interested in him. I've seen grades on him going from a 3rd rounder to 5th rounder.

    New regime, usually means new QB. Obviously we don't need one, as we have one in place, but I wouldn't doubt us picking one up in the draft.
  19. SuperCharger92
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    Gaither has proved he is a viable LOT for this team, and when he's on the field he's in that top 15 class of LOT's. We take on a $6 million dollar cap hit if we cut him. That's a lot of dead money.

    I hate defending him, but people have to understand and be able to let go of the past. 2012 was 2012, this is now 2013, and if the guy doesn't want to be with this team, or yet even play again in the NFL, cut his ***. If the talk he had with Telesco went bad, I would think he would of been cut by now. But, according to Telesco the talk went good. So maybe he does want to be here and play. And we shall see..

    But in that mock, I had no late round "projects" for the OL. We have one of the best in the business when it comes to OL coaching. So I think he can in fact take a raw player or even a project and make him a solid starter for this team.

    And as LBC explained, Cam Thomas hasn't done much with his time he's been giving in SD. And the NT is a crucial position for us if we want to build on last year's defense. The market is poor for 3-4 NT's right now in the NFL. If we don't sign Vaughn Martin or a quality NT, expect us to use this pick early in the draft.
  20. Bolts4lyfe
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    All need should really be is if you view two players equally. And obviously (as stated above) If they fit into your system. For instance Some scouts Like Warford at OG over Cooper because they feel he can be a better player in the type of blocking system they run.

    If Player A plays OLB and Player B plays CB. Both have the same talent and upside. and you already have two solid corners on your roster but no pass rushers, Odds are your going to take the OLB having you Need plus BPA come together.

    Having said that, looking at our roster I see NT we have Cam Thomas, SS we have Taylor, CB we have Gilchrist and Wright and even ILB I see Mouton. Not all these guys are going to pan out to be Pro Bowlers or even solid starters but they are all still very young and could ascend to be solid players.

    At ROLB I see nobody, Jarrett Johnson is over 30 and isn't a pass rusher, not much more of a future left in SD IMO.
    At LG I see no one, and considering what happens to Gaither at LT I see no one.

    For this reason I put LT, LG, OLB ahead of NT, ILB, SS, and CB

    If Rhodes and Cooper were honestly the best 2 options at 11 and if had to come down to both of them I'd pick Cooper for

    A being BPA
    B filling a need
    C fits better into our scheme
  21. Boltjolt
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    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Who we interview means little. They will interiew 60 some guys and draft 7. If i recall right, they didnt even talk to Cason. I think it was Cason. I know there is one player they drafted that said he didnt even meet with us. As for new regime means new QB , they arent looking to replace Rivers so i cant put much stock in that.

    There are more possitions in need to replace and get for depth than the backup QB, and if you think they are looking to replace Rivers...dont forget he is the reason they chose to come here. Even if they are looking to replace either, a 6th rounder isnt where id be looking. Tom Brady was the exception and this QB class is kaka imo.
    They talked a lot with Kiko Alonzo but it doesnt mean they are going to draft him.
  22. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I understand that, but the fact there talking to a QB, leads me to believe they'll be looking for one in the later rounds in the draft. New regime = New QB, were not replacing Rivers, but McCoy and Telesco most likely want their guy backing Rivers up. Whitehurst was more like Norv's guy, they were together for 4 years.

    And I rather, again, develop a guy at QB, then have a 31 year old holding a clip board, getting paid $1.8M in 2013, AND a guy who's only passed for 800 yards and 3 TD's and 4 INT's in his 7 year career.
  23. Boltjolt
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    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    What has Gaither proved more. That he is valuable to us or that he is a lazy POS who faked an injury all through TC. Ask his teammates what he has proved to them.

    As for the cap hit, ..yes it will be a 6 mil cap hit, but it will be a 6.5 cap hit to keep him and if they cut him, Dean Spanos saves 4.5 million dollars that he doesnt have to pay out.

    What do you think Dean cares more about? If you are him , and you know the HC and GM arent real higfh on the guy but are trying to maybe make it work, and you know his teammates arent thrilled with him.

    If he doesnt show up to voluntary workouts, i think Dean looks to save 4.5 million in his pocket and the team $500,000 on the cap.

    As for Cam Thomas, ...imo he has showed a lot of improvement. You know Franklin only played 285 all year so he wasnt in there a lot. Who do you think came in for him? Garay didnt play much at all.
  24. Boltjolt
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    If they care that much about a backup QB, id think they would try to get somebody who isnt a rookie. Why waste a late pick on a QB who you know isnt going to see the field for maybe 2-3 years,..maybe never? They have a better chance with a late round OG or RB than a QB.
    Whitehurst was a 3rd round pick who was our 3rd stringer his whole time here. What a wasted pick that was by AJ.

    This QB class sucks imo. I wouldnt be drafting anyone after the 3rd round in this dumpster diver QB class. I dont even like the top QB's in this class, lol. If they want a QB, next years draft(2014) will be better to get one.
  25. Bolts4lyfe
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    I honestly believe once Ryan Lindley gets released from AZ (you know it's going to happen, seeing how they have 4 QB's on the roster) I see them bringing him over here to back up Rivers seeing how he was a guy Ken Whiz seemed to like.
    But I imagine that'll be closer to training camp.
  26. Boltjolt
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    Id rather keep Whitehurst. Lindley is awful.
  27. NYCharger
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    The Whitehurst trade with Seattle was a huge steal for us.
  28. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    So we're just gonna pay a guy $13.5M for 4 games and that's it? I think Dean would be pissed at that.

    If the GM and HC weren't high on him, why would the GM say the talk he had with Gaither was good? He obviously expects him to show up to the workouts and camp, or else he'd be cut by now. Again, I'd hate to defend Gaither, but did the medical staff clear him for practice/games? There has been no report of that since his back spasms. And like Rivers and Hardwick said, you honestly don't know if the guy is hurt or not. If he can't go, he can't go. I think people should direct the anger more towards AJ Smith for having the world's most ********* back up plan.

    Again, where do people see Cam Thomas has made an improvement? It's going to be his 4th season, he was a 5th round project. And 5 games started since being in the league doesn't give me the confidence to tell Cam, go out and get them for 16 games.

    No Aubrayo Franklin, No Antonio Garay, and as of right now, No Vaughn Martin, I'm almost certain we will draft a NT in the rounds 1-3. It's a need now, and since the market for 34 NT's right now is weak I can't see much getting done there prior to the draft.
  29. SuperCharger92
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    Because it's cheaper. And the coaching staff can develop their own QB.

    What is Whitehurst going to do for this team except cost us $1.8M?! Nothing. And I guess we got it back from the trade with Seattle though, but yup another wasted pick by AJ.

    Look at Washington, they drafted RG3 last year, and drafted Kirk Cousins in the 4th round. You think it was necessary? Because I don't, but very smart move by Washington. They needed him, and he played very well. He'll be trade bait in a year or two.
  30. Boltjolt
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    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Why would he be pissed if he can save paying him 4.5 million this year? It wont show up on teh cap hit but it will in his account.

    He will probably get released in a couple weeks so why waste argueing about him? Just because they said a talk went good doesn't mean anything. You take what you read too literally. And AJ got what he deserved.

    Hmm, so you want us to pick a QB late in the draft and develope him and let the better backup go and thats ok, but Thomas has been developing for three seasons, they let go the two other guys and now you say he cant play? He looked alot better to me last season than he ever has. Played more than Franklin did.

    Which is why drafting a QB who will be third string when there will be many others out there to sign is a bad idea. I really think we need to draft a NT at some point. Where who knows. Maye they make a trade, maybe they pick up someone who gets released or all three.

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