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Norv: Don't expect the Chargers to make the playoffs next season

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Blue Bolt, Dec 31, 2012.

  1. DenverBolt67
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    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Becasue their teams had ONE bad year, not 3 in a row.

    The terrible coach in Norv also orchestrated an offense that could only score 6 points in Cleveland. His inconsistency is why he is a terrible coach.

    I never said I expected them too, but I also don't think there is reason to throw up the white flag on the 2013 season before we even know who the GM is, who the HC is, what other coaching changes they make, who they draft, who they sign as a FA, who they make trade for, ect You are making claims that next season is basically a waste and is already over, not exactly in those words, and defending one of the 10 worst coaches in the NFL who had a team that constantly made mistakes, executed poorly, was poorly prepared, made ZERO adjustments, all of which don't happen as often with a well coached teams. Do they still happen, hell yeah, but do they happen in 16 games of a season, in 3 straight years? No. Norv's team does
  2. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    You're talking about coaches who have won Super Bowls very recently, on teams who haven't missed the playoffs 3 years in a row.

    You're losing your mind Blue. You're trying to compare apples to hamburgers.
  3. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Remember, the Giants barely squeaked into the playoffs last year. In plenty of years, a 9-7 record wouldn't be good enough to make it. They got hot at the right time, but they underperformed for much of the season (yes, they were inconsistent).

    When did I ever say that next season is a "waste"? Do you usually put words in other people's mouths? :rolleyes:

    I will repeat, Norv said that fans shouldn't expect this team to instantly return to the playoffs, due to the changes that need to made to the roster. I agreed with that statement.

    You seem to be of the camp that thinks all we need is a coaching change and a couple of linemen and were ready to reclaim the division. I think there's a lot more work that needs to be done before we can dethrone the Broncos.

    Hell, I expected us to do well this year, I was hopeful that the FA additions and the good draft would make this team capable of winning the division. A few injuries and underperforming FAs quickly showed the alarming lack of depth on this team. If we could avoid the injuries that have plagued this team in the past, we might have a shot at a wildcard with a new regime, but we all know injuries happen in the league...... and they definitely happen to the Chargers.
  4. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    On a team who's roster has deteriorated 3 years in a row........ see any correlation? :rolleyes:
  5. DenverBolt67
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    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    And had Norv's team barely squeaked into the playoffs and went on to win the SB, 2 of the last 5 years, Norv would have a lifetime contract with the Chargers, one that most of us would support.

    Did you miss the "not exactly in those words" line? No, you did not say it is a waste, but you are basically saying that in other words.

    You are putting me in a group that I am not part of. The group I am in, is one that says if we upgrade at HC (which shouldn't be too hard) and other coaching/trainer spots, and have a good off-season with personnel, we can absolutely be right back to competing for the division. I have no idea if that will happen, but I am not going to claim we are in rebuilding mode or that we are years away from being good again until I actually see who our new HC and GM are, and what personnel moves are made
  6. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    Yes I do. I also see Philip Rivers regressing, I also see us leading games in the 4th quarter...and then losing them. I also see us trying to throw 40 yards down field to Eddie Royal when Kevin Haslam is starting at left tackle. I also see us running dive plays on 3rd and 3 and settling for 50 yard field goals. I also see a team that abandons the run game when they are behind AND when they're ahead!

    Again, you seem to think coaching involves nothing more than telling a player to run to the X and win his assignment....is a little more involved than that buddy.
  7. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I never said Norv was great, or he didn't make mistakes. I merely pointed out that his declining record perfectly mirrors the deteriorating roster....... that isn't a coincidence.

    When he had a good enough roster, Norv was good enough to get us into the playoffs and actually win (unlike Marty). That doesn't make him a great coach, but he's far from "terrible"...... that label is flat out ridiculous.

    A better HC would certainly help, but without a better roster, don't expect drastic improvement. There's a lot of work to be done to turn this team into a playoff caliber unit.
  8. DenverBolt67
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    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    You continue to ignore that this team was still really close to being a playoff team, all of the last 3 years and with a coach that made good half time adjustments and actually made adjustments to account for the players he had on hand (Continuing to call 7 step drop plays with a terrible OL or calling dive plays with Sproles on the field on 4th down), they would have been in the playoffs all 3 years, even with the depleted roster.

    You will not find a single person here that would claim the team is as talented as they were in 06 or 07, which is why most have also wanted AJ gone. But this team is still good enough to have won the division in 2010 and 11, and to be in the playoff this year if we had a HC that wasn't completely incompetent
  9. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    I didn't say it was painful. I just implied that it's inappropriate.

    I don't have to be butthurt, mad, upset, angry, or even annoyed about a comment to have an opinion as to its appropriateness.
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  10. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Ah, more of a Miss Manners comment then. ;)

    [​IMG]
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  11. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    Eh, I was just stating an opinion since it became a topic of discussion.

    I didn't run here to bitch about it, lol
  12. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Really?....... I was trying to provoke a response......... and it worked. ;)
  13. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    Just any response? Because I apparently got one of you by responding. So we both won!
  14. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I was just referring to this thread in general....... I knew the Norv haters would be unable to resist the bait. :D
  15. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    Gotcha.

    You only have to post a thread to gain a fair chance of getting a response out of me. :roflmao:
  16. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Slow day? ;)
  17. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    That explains it :D

    (I haven't been quite as active here the past few years as I once was)
  18. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    And you shouldn't expect a drastic decline. We still have a QB, we still have a weapons around him, we still have a lot of young talent on defense, and its not like our new GM is just going to stand pat over the next 9 months.

    Both men deserved to lose their jobs, they did, end of story. Time to move forward.
  19. FCBolt
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    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    There's no question that AJ ****** the team right good, and that Norv's coaching sucked balls.
    I didn't watch the video, but from the quote, it sure looks like Norv saying we're in rebuilding mode.
    He might be right. On the other hand, a good coach and GM can turn an organization around fast. Unfortunately we have to rely on Deano hiring those guys....
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  20. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Yes, it was time for a change, on that we agree.

    My point was that bad decisions by the GM will make for a "bad" coach. You can't win without players...... doesn't matter what your game plans are. AJ had a few good drafts at the start, got a swelled head and thought he was smarter than everyone else. he wasn't. He followed with a string of terrible drafts, let star players go (for nothing in return), and here we are........ a once very talented team that no longer has elite talent.

    Rivers is still here, if battered by the past few seasons. Gates is getting old and Mathews is undependable. Two of our best performers were the late editions of Alexander and Spurlock...... neither of which is under contract. It's not just the O-line that needs fixing, it's the skill positions as well. McMichael is gone, and Rosario disappeared at the end of the year (other than committing dumb penalties). Where is our strength on offense?

    The defense has a good young core in the front line now, but the back half is in complete flux. At his age, do we really want to pay big money to keep Phillips? Johnson is a run stopper, so if Phillips goes, we need at least a couple OLBs who can get to the QB. We need a new SS, and two CBs. It's a long shopping list for the new GM.
  21. Cheapseats
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    Cheapseats Loud, proud Charger fan

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    I think Norv presented a realistic expectation based on the current level of talent(?) on the roster. I am encouraged that Dean has hired Ron Wolf to help select the next GM, we may be less likely to hire another organizational nightmare with his help sorting the wheat from the chaff. I would like to be pleasantly surprised by a rebuilt roster and a good season next year instead of being sold a bill of goods about "...being a couple of players away..." and then pay to see the 2013 version of the team stink the place up.

    I am hoping our next GM will draft players I have heard of from schools I have heard of...starting with the best OT available with the # 11 pick.
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  22. ETicket
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    ETicket Well-Known Member

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    LOL - Didn't you already admit that you had no honest point, that you were only "trying to provoke a response"? :D
  23. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    No........ I was doing both.

    I can have a point, and stir the pot at the same time...... it's called multi-tasking. ;)
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  24. CraziFuzzy
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    CraziFuzzy BoltTalker

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    I think just about everything Norv said in that interview was pretty spot on. And really I don't think he was really saying 'it wasn't my fault', so much as saying 'it certainly wasn't as easy on me the last three years as it was the first three'. A great coach CAN get stuff done with average talent, but it takes time working with that talent. When you have a new line every other week, even a great coach doesn't have the time to get the performance out of the average/fresh talent. I'm no Norv apologist, I feel he failed at many many parts of the job, and he never really has carried the demeanor of a head coach - more of a coordinator, but what he said today is correct. It will take more than a few parts to turn this team into a real contender to the current Denver setup. That said, if they started the season with the same people they ended it with, I DO think they would have had much better success, no matter WHO those people were.
    Everyone has always said that AJ was great in the free agency, and I do think he was - however, the free agency, like norv also said, doesn't get you long term success. Any player you pick up in the free agency already is known to have a tendency to move around, and you can't expect more than a couple years out of them. If you have a couple hole to fill, that's when you get the 'temps' from free agency - but great players are bread from within - whether that is draft, or undrafted free agents. Greatness grows with the loyalty and familiarity with a system - NOT from piecing together guys from other systems.
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  25. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    A great example of that, is Robert Meachem. From the outside, he looked like a good addition...... a fairly productive player that was presumably limited by being in a WR crowded offense. Turns out, he was a squared peg in the round hole of the Chargers offense. He never could figure it out, and even when he did get open, Rivers and him weren't in sync.

    You're always better off if you can draft and develop your own players. Let them learn the system, and get familiar with each other over time. The stars players will emerge naturally.
  26. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    Offense:
    Rivers will be better when he trusts his O-line again, he's a flawed QB, but he can still be a Pro Bowl QB.
    Gates will be better when Rivers gets better...when the O-line lets Rivers get better.
    Alexander (RFA) looks like the real deal regardless of the O-line problems.
    Eddie Royal can play, he was HORRENDOUS fit in Norvs offense as I told everyone he would be.
    Vincent Brown is an exciting player who had this season stolen from him, I believe our true #1 receiver.
    Malcom Floyd can still play, and was close to breaking 1000 yards before he got hurt.
    LaDarius Green, watch out for this kid, in his few snaps he flashed some serious talent. I reminded me of Gates' 2003 season.
    Ryan Mathews....*sigh*... As far as production I give him the same excuse I give everyone else, the O-line is the worst in the league or close to it. As far as injuries there is not much you can do other than acquire a starting caliber backup.

    We have weapons. Our offensive issues start with the O-line, continue with Norv, and roll off on the guys running down the field with nothing to catch because Rivers is on his back again.

    Defense: Shaun Phillips is 32, the market will set itself, he's not going to get a huge deal from anyone. I don't think he'll be much more expensive than he was this year (we payed him over $5M). Don't forget Antwan Barnes either, the guy is explosive. And Melvin Ingram had a disappointing rookie year, but so did Corey Liuget in 2011, I think he'll have a strong sophomore season.

    CB is to the defense what the offensive line is to the offense, our achilles heal. Cason had a strong finish to the season, but not strong enough to warrant re-signing him if we get in a bidding war with someone. Gilchrist is inconsistant, Wright has shown flashes of starting potential. I expect we'll spend a couple draft picks here, if not sign a mid range free agent.

    SS is going to be fine, Bigby will be back, hopefully Taylor will get back, if not the FA market is flush with SS talent this year.


    You're trying to make our roster seem like a doomsday display, all we need to do is spend draft picks and maybe some money on O-line, O-line again, CB, and pad some depth with some band aide veterans.
  27. FCBolt
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    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Let's face facts, our roster ain't in great shape.

    CB: Cason's staying and we're going to have to live with him for at least another year. Jammer's gone, and needs to be replaced. Wright and Gilchrist may be able to replace him, but they haven't shown that ability yet.
    SS: Need one. I doubt Bigby makes it another season and Taylor impressed everyone so much that he was inactive most of the year.
    SILB: With Spikes gone, we need one here too. Mouton ain't it. Neither is Bird.
    NT: Is Cam Thomas a 16 game starter? Looks like we might be about to find out.
    LT: Obvious.
    LG: Need a real starter here.
    RT: Clary's time is up.
    RB: Can't rely on Mathews for a full season and into playoffs.
    TE: Gates is just about done and hasn't been replaced.

    That's a **** of a laundry list.
    Can a good coach and GM patch something together and get the team into the playoffs?
    Sure.
    But it's no guarantee.
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  28. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    If we can fix LT, RT, and LG, and field the same exact defense we did in 2012...I think this is a playoff team in 2013. Maybe not a Super Bowl contender, but a definite playoff contender.

    I don't think thats unreasonable to ask with 7 draft picks and a little money to spend in FA.
  29. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    OFFENSE:
    Rivers has to bounce back from two bad years, it can happen with a better O-line, but his decision making is now an issue, and it wasn't before.
    Gates will be another year older, and face it, he's not as quick as he once was. A better line would give him more time to get open.
    Alexander looked great in Norv's system, but will he be as good in another...... and how much will he cost to retain?
    Royal has never shown the ability to stay healthy, and he showed it again this year. I doubt they keep him.
    Brown would've helped if he had been available, but he wasn't. I do have hopes for him next season.
    Floyd is still an very effective WR when healthy, and when he's got another prime target to to pressure off him. Like Royal, he is rarely able to play an entire season without getting injured.
    Green is still a project, so he may emerge as a real player, or he may need more time to develop. Many receivers take 3 years to develop..... he'll be in his 2nd. We still need a blocking TE, since McMichael is done.
    Mathews is injury prone, face it. He's not a guy we can depend on as a primary RB. We'll have to go RB by committee to protect ourselves against injury.
    Meachem we're stuck with due to his salary. We have to hope that the next coach's system is a better fit for him.

    We have some weapons, but many are either unreliable (get injured), or are getting old. Unless we rebuild the O-line strictly through the draft, quality FAs will be expensive.

    DEFENSE:
    LBs: Phillips is older, but this is his last contract, so he's not going to settle for less than he can get. Somebody will probably be willing to pay more than us.
    Barnes is only explosive in limited duty. If he played as many snaps as Phillips, his production would decline.
    Ingram should have a better sophomore year, like Liuget did, but we still need another effective pass rusher even if we keep Phillips. English isn't the answer.
    Spikes isn't coming back, and Williams is no spring chicken either. Mouton is a bust from all reports. Do we really want to be starting Bront Bird opposite Butler? We need a quality ILB to start and better depth.

    CBs: Cason is too inconsistent to count on. he's had plenty of time to emerge as a reliable starter, and he's failed to lock down the position. This is one spot when shopping for a veteran FA makes sense. Wright may be ready to start, but that's only one spot. We really should replace both starting CBs. Jammer has outlived his usefulness..... he's too slow now to deal with speed WRs.

    SS: Bigby is a hitter, but he was out of position and took bad angles of pass coverage. He's good enough to get by with, but an upgrade would be preferable. I wouldn't expect Taylor back until midseason. He might be a fast healer, but getting into playing shape and getting back up to speed takes time.

    Is this a "doomsday" scenario?....... I wouldn't put it that way, but it's a long way from saying we're a coaching change, a one decent draft away from being playoff team again.
  30. FCBolt
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    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    We're going to lose Jammer and Spikes, so the D is going to look a little bit different. Also need a new SS. Not sure what Franklin's status is, but it'd be nice to get him back at NT.

    OL is crucial. No argument there. But we're currently ****** at ILB on the strongside. Absolutely need to pick up a starter there, CB and SS.
    That's 6 positions, which is a big offseason. Doable yes and still could make playoffs. But it's no guarantee.

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