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NORV IS THE BEST!!!!

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by rickochey, May 9, 2012.

  1. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Wow, witty.:sleep: The problem is you're too far off base, and I don't have the patience it would take to teach you football.
     
  2. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I agree, and whats funny is I never said otherwise. The base argument I'm making is right here so write this down:

    Norv, Manusky, and AJ all deserve to be fired. And the only one with a marginal defense to keep his job was AJ. End quote.
     
  3. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    What I'm telling you is that you're dismissing a 4-1 record because they looked ugly getting it even though earlier you don't want to dismiss the 2010 9-7 record as nothing more than the Special Teams giving it away with fluke foul ups.

    My point is, you can't blindly look at the record one time then take the circumstances that led to the record into account another time.
     
  4. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    But you haven't provided me with credible reason why either has to be fired as your argument rests solely on the fact that they have started seasons on the wrong foot and missed the playoffs two years in a row.
     
  5. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    And thats enough of a reason for me. After 5 years of diminishing returns we just had our worst season under Norv, I don't see why he gets to keep his job.
     
  6. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Rivers threw 2 INT's in each of those first 3 games....... a major reason the two wins were as close as they were, and a big factor in losing the game to New England. Rivers wasn't sharp to start the year, and we've never seen him play that poorly for that long a stretch.
     
  7. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Then after 5 years of bad drafts, there was no reason to keep AJ Smith either.

    But then again, it gets in the way with your whole "everything is Norv's fault" mantra. :rolleyes:
     
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  8. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    Except 3 of the 5 seasons aren't really the massive failures you're making them out to be.

    So they started slow in 2007 and 2009? So what? They made it to the AFC Championship Game in 2007 and won 13 games in 2009. Is either the end goal? Of course not, but if you want to be that much of a perfectionist there's 31 coaches that need to be fired every year.

    Oh, and I don't lay 2010 on Norv for reasons stated multiple times in this thread. We had the league's #1 offense (with Vincent Jackson sitting out most of the year) as well as the league's #1 defense. We were held back by fluke-ish failures on the special teams. I find it hard to lay that squarely on Norval's feet.

    That leaves 2008 where that slow start lasted waaaay too long and last year when the talent had already diminished to the point of being really thin and Rivers wasn't playing like Rivers.

    I won't shed a tear if they fire Norval, but I'm not going to share this massive delusion that firing him instantly makes us Super Bowl contenders either.
     
  9. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Without getting long winded there are not 29 coaches who have Philip Rivers, Vincent Jackson, Malcom Floyd, Antonio Gates, Ryan Mathews and an O-line that is capable of being solid as they prove every Nov-Dec...and struggle so immensly to score as often as we do.

    Assuming Norv is really just a glorified OC, our offense was horrendous for a long time last year...too long. Even if you want to blame it on Rivers, Norv is supposed to be the QB "guru", and he has to take a share of that blame for putting PR in a lot of tough/desperate positions.
     
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  10. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Actually I said AJ deserved to be fired. (link)

    But I guess that gets in the way of your whole stick your head in your own *** and put words in matilack's mouth, mantra.
     
  11. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    Regardless, there are talented teams losing in the playoffs every year. You don't fire your head coach just because you don't win the Super Bowl.

    But last year was just one year. The year prior the "glorified OC" and "QB guru" (as you call him, note that I never said either) had his best wide receiver holding out to no fault of his own and still had the NFL's best offense....but you still want to blame him because the special teams screwed up.
     
  12. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    There you go again, ignoring the facts. :D

    Rivers had a bad year....... not something you can pin on the play calling, he was just off. He wasn't accurate, and he forced bad throws.

    Gates was hurt, and didn't get healthy enough to make a real impact until late in the year. Fans forget how important Gates is as a "safety blanket" for Rivers.

    Of the 6 games the Chargers lost in the middle of the season, Malcom Floyd missed 4 of them. Ryan Mathews missed the Green Bay game as well, and only got 6 carries his first game back, also during that losing streak. The offense wasn't at full strength.

    The O-line was decimated by injuries in the middle of the season...... god knows how you could gloss over that fact. Losing Dielman and McNeill was a disaster for River's protection. Dombrowski made Wimbley look like a monster. Rivers' bad start was only worsened by him not being able to trust his protection. The arrival of Jared Gaither saved the season. I don't think this can be overstated...... without him, the Chargers wouldn't have had that 4-1 winning streak at the end.

    But, you ignore all that, as usual........ and blame it all on Norv. :rolleyes:
     
  13. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    But you said AJ has a "marginal defense"....... you didn't grant that to anyone else. You consistently undervalue the GM's contribution to the decline of the Chargers.

    Of course, Norv has responsibility for the team as head coach, but the talent on the team has declined the last 5 years, and that's AJ's department. The decline in wins coincides with the bad drafts, and mediocre free agent signings, while quality players have flown the coup.

    That is not how you build a championship franchise.
     
  14. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    He's not blaming it all on Norv, Blue.

    He's arguing over and over how much Norv should be fired due to the team record over the past 5 years while tossing a bone in here and there saying "well, it's not all his fault".
     
  15. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Not "safety valve" or "security blanket" but "safety blanket?" Ah, I miss the 'English' of George W. Bush.
     
  16. rickochey

    rickochey BoltTalker

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  17. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    I actually did not like the idea of Marty getting fired, but that's water under the bridge.

    Ask Giants fans if they still want Tom Coughlin fired as they kept clamoring for practically every year before 2007....and then again a few years later.
     
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  18. rickochey

    rickochey BoltTalker

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    crazy NYers. lol..

    So why do HC get fired?
     
  19. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    What's wrong with combining the two? Certainly, Antonio Gates is that important to this team. ;)

    That's all you took from that entire back and forth? One might think you were looking for something to criticize...... but that wouldn't be at all like you. :D
     
  20. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Not all, but basically 99% Norv's fault...... that's the way I read his comments.
     
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  21. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    No, you fire him because you don't make the playoffs in arguably the weakest division in the NFL.

    This is the kind of thing that happens as time goes on, people forget how many mistakes our offense made in crunch time and how many terrible play calls Norv made to kill potentially game icing drives. But lets pretend Norv gets a pass for 2010 because he just ignores STs and lets Crosby do is thing...I'd still fire him for the inexcusably horrible job he did in 2011.

    I don't remember anyone having complaints about the rumors of Norv getting fired in Decemeber when we were 7-8, but finishing 8-8 was destined to bring out the "1 play game" guys like Blue who cite 1 single play that cost us the playoffs.
     
  22. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    There was other stuff worth taking?!?
    Upon reflection, though, "safety blanket" is probably even more Palin-esque, than it is Bushism.
    (and not the intelligent Palin, from Monty Python)
    If, however, you're really hurt...I'll refudiate completely!
     
  23. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    Generally some combination of team is looking for a change of direction + pressure from reactionary fans + contract is up.

    I'm not saying HCs don't get fired for their team's W/L record. I'm just saying that this doesn't necessarily make them solely (or mostly) responsible for that record either.

    Nor does it mean that firing the HC will fix all (or most) problems if the team hasn't won the Super Bowl.
     
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  24. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Brilliant example, Leo. One I've mentioned on this site many times before. Fans were calling for Couhglin's head AGAIN this past season when they finished 9-7. Then look what happened.
     
  25. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Of course not, you build a franchise by asking..."what if Rivers doesn't fumble that snap?" Don't you. :roflmao:

    In the end Norv is part of the problem, not the solution. The most I can say for AJ is he's landed some pretty solid picks in recent drafts....but I think in Janurary I'd have fired him along with his boy Norv.
     
  26. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    I wouldn't have complained had we canned Norv, but we didn't.

    I simply don't think he's the biggest factor in the losses. That doesn't mean I agreed with every one of his playcalls either.
     
  27. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Exactly...everyone always talks about the NFL being a "copycat league" (or "copycat blanket" as Blewy calls it)
    but how many teams are really going to look at the 9-7 Giants as some template for greatness?
    (and the certainty of loud N.Y. fans that Coughlin would never be successful is just too easy to ridicule)
     
  28. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Are you saying you're only defending Norv because he wasn't fired? Or is this just another lost in translation moment between us?

    Heck I don't think Steve Gregory was the biggest factor in why we couldn't stop teams on 3rd down...but I'm glade he's gone, because now we can upgrade an improve.
     
  29. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I doubt that is what he is saying. Take a step back and read it without the intent of educating everyone on why Norv is so bad. You might actually see there is very little to argue with what he is saying.
     
  30. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    I suppose you can interpret it that way, but even if Norv was fired I still wouldn't look back on the past 5 years like as though the majority of the failure was his fault. I just wouldn't have minded seeing the team move on and try something else since there has been failure regardless of who owns what percentage of blame.

    But, they chose to hold on to him at least one more year so it is what it is. The guy still has his strengths even if some people (not necessarily saying you) don't want to admit to it. They can win with him, that much I believe. They would have in '07 if not for some dumb luck. (I also think they could have won it in 2010 if not for the Special Teams.)
     

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