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NORV IS THE BEST!!!!

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by rickochey, May 9, 2012.

  1. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    You do realize that your mixed metaphor makes no sense, don't you?...... try a little harder, Lance. ;)

    The Giants' 9-7 season was as much a template for greatness as was Green Bay's 15-1 record. Funny thing, Green Bay won the Super Bowl when they had precisely the kind of season that the Giants did this year.

    All that matters is getting into the playoffs. Having the best regular season guarantees you absolutely nothing.
     
  2. Pumpkin Bolt

    Pumpkin Bolt Zin me!

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    Well said!

    [​IMG]
     
  3. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    It guarantees you a spot in the playoffs.
     
  4. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Not sure why you would state something so obvious...
    (what's next? "Team with the most points get the 'W'?")
    My point was that the '11 Giants were a mediocre team, as evidenced by their 9-7 record.
    A record the Chargers were one snap away from in a season considered a disaster.
    This is not a model team.
     
  5. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    And nothing else, as the Packers, Falcons and other "regular season champions" can attest to.

    The knock on Norv, is that he only has the team playing it's best at the end of the season. That's precisely when you want to be playing your best football.

    We've seen a number of teams in recent years with less than stellar regular seasons, who got hot at the end and carried it all the way to a championship.

    And inversely, we've seen teams with great regular seasons, take it easy at the end, get home field advantage then lay an egg in their 1st playoff game.
     
  6. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    The "obvious" seems to have escaped you. They weren't mediocre when it mattered.

    The Giants outplayed everyone they faced in the playoffs, that's why they are the champions. Their accomplishment is not tarnished in any way because they didn't have a great regular season record.
     
  7. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    I pretty much agree with what you're saying. The only point of fact that I was trying to stress is that, while "winning" the regular season doesn't guarantee you win in the playoffs....it also doesn't guarantee you lose either.
     
  8. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    No, it doesn't. I was merely pointing out that the conventional wisdom of having the best record and home field throughout the playoffs has not proven to be the panacea that some would have you believe.

    Being hot at the right time, is more important then having the most regular season wins. Having that week off often leads to teams losing their edge. Sewing the division up early and resting players hasn't proven to be a winning formula.
     
  9. ETicket

    ETicket Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like something said by Maxine Waters, Pete Stark, or Charlie Rangel to me. :p
     
  10. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    The amusing thing is that anyone would see this as a major faux pas. Security and safety are synonyms....... they have the same meaning.

    Those common phrases could just as well be "security value" and "safety blanket", as the other way around. The meaning wouldn't change.
     
  11. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    The regular season is irrelevant insofar as being anything other than a vehicle into the postseason. However, in the AFC, unlike the NFC, 9 wins isn't a guarantee to get you a playoff spot, as we learned in 2005 and 2010. The Giants also Christmas miracled their way past the 49ers, in case you didn't watch the game. The point is, it's not necesarily about being the best team, just the team in position to get the breaks. On the flipside from the Giants, the Pats went 13-3 before winning their 2 playoff games to get to the Superbowl.

    The ultimate difference between the teams which have won the Superbowl in recent years and the Chargers is that the teams that have won in the playoffs have had a passrush, and we haven't since 2007.
     
  12. jackfrost

    jackfrost Well-Known Member

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    Still going strong in here I see ...............:tup:

    Unbelievable stamina and determination on display in this thread, maybe this thread needs to be hung on the noticeboard for the players/coaches to see what its like to have the necessary "passion & desire" that the fanbase has for this team to succeed, if they showed a small percentage of the tenacity shown in forums, we'd never lose a game. :D
     
  13. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Again, everyone knows that once in the playoffs, everyone has a shot.

    But, if your theory is that the team that holds the trophy is by definition necessarily the best team in football
    (since they have always "outplayed everyone they faced in the playoffs") then you're just making a circular
    argument, and there's no point trying to discuss it with you. If trophy = "best team," by claimed definition,
    then you've reached your conclusion before any argument's been made.

    Of course, in the real world, every football fan knows that a 2-14 team isn't better than a 14-2 team
    merely because the weaker team won a game between the two. Any given Sunday.
    The NFL playoff is a very rare single-elimination construct which allows good teams to get
    eliminated--by a fluke bounce or two, or missed field goal--far more often than in NBA or MLB "best of" series.

    The Giants earned their 2011 trophy fair and square. But to say that it is not "tarnished in any way"
    by the weak 16 game season performance is merely opinion...and a terribly weak opinion in my view.
    To suggest that 9-7 does not reflect badly on them
    (oh, and for a refresher on how much luck the Giants needed just to reach a mediocre 9-7, read
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/05/s...ts-when-luck-went-the-giants-way.html?_r=2&hp)
    overlooks many things, not least of which is that a 9-7 record isn't even usually good enough
    to get in the playoffs!! In other words, despite the Giants' good fortune, getting healthy and hot
    at the end of the season, the reality is that most teams that play as they did in '11, win ZERO
    playoff games, because 9-7 is traditionally a record that leads to watching the playoffs on TV.
    Or put yet another way, teams would be foolish to model themselves on a usually non-playoff eligible model.
    But I guess, by your logic, Blewy, the 7-9 2010 Seahawks would've been the true class of the NFL if they won
    three more games in early 2011. Again, the Giants won it by the rules. But is does tarnish the championship
    to have a team that's lucky to be 9-7 win it, when they clearly weren't the league's best
    (unless, again, you just blindly swallow that whoever gets through the playoffs is automatically "best")

    If you want to beat this to death further--sticking to the notion that a team that wins is always the better team,
    I'll let you fight that pointless battle alone. You either get it, or you don't. And I'm guessing you don't.
     
  14. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    The Denver Broncos say hi
     
  15. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    The Super Bowl winner may not be the "best" team by some merits of argument, but then being the "best" team isn't really the goal if this is the case.

    I think you're both basically arguing the same thing, just in a different way.

    Blue Bolt is saying that having the best regular season record not only doesn't guarantee a Super Bowl win but also hasn't fared well in general because it's been the team that's gotten hot at the right time that's won it. Meanwhile, you're saying that the eventual Super Bowl winner may not have been the "best" team in the league that year.

    Sounds like the same claim to me, just worded differently.
     
  16. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    ?
     
  17. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    You said:
    Leo was pointing out that the Broncos made the playoffs with an 8-8 record.
     
  18. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    What's laughable, is your notion that not having the best record tarnishes your Super Bowl win...... it doesn't. No Giants fan is unhappy that their team won the Super Bowl with a less than stellar record. They've done it twice that way. They showed toughness and resiliency. They also got some luck along the way, as most Super Bowl winners do.

    The year prior, the Packers had a similar course to their championship. There's not a single Packers fan would take this past 15-1 season over that one. During the regular season, the Packers looked to be the class of the NFL. Rodgers was on fire as a QB...... as good as anyone has ever looked. But when it really counted, in the playoffs, he looked out of sync and his team played badly. The Giants didn't squeak that game out, they won handily.

    Having home field advantage has not proven to be as big a winning factor in recent years. Neither has having the week off and resting your players. The wild card teams have won more than their share of championships. What they had going for them was that they were hot at the right time, and carried it all the way through to the Super Bowl.

    Nobody remembers years later who had the best regular season record in a given year...... it doesn't matter. What they do remember, is who won the Super Bowl. That is the ultimate measuring stick of who the best team is.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    In the playoffs yes, but the Saints list their final 3 games of the season and went on to win the SB a few years ago.
     
  20. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Yep, and they also ended the regular season with a great record and lost to the Seahawks in the 1st round. There are no guarantees...... they call it the second season for a reason. ;)

    It is rare for a team to suddenly turn it on when they aren't playing well at the end of the regular season. Winning tends to build on itself and create momentum. It's hard to create that from a losing streak.
     
  21. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Exactly. The NFL proves year after year that there is no perfect formula to what it takes to win the SB.
     
  22. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Some luck is what seems to be the most helpful........ something the Chargers have been lacking.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    without a doubt
     
  24. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Maybe he should've actually read my post, where I said that a 9-7 record isn't a guarantee.
     
  25. Sydalish

    Sydalish Addicted to Sports

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    Clearly this cannot be the case! I've seen PLENTY of ironclad formulas for success right here on BT! If only the Chargers FO and coaching staff would listen to us.... :laugh:
     
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  26. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    AWE CRAP! He was drafted by Indy!
     
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  27. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    It doesn't have to be that Luck......... any luck will do. ;)
     
  28. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    It's one of the things that makes the NFL so interesting. For a number of years now, we've seen teams go from worst to first in their division. There aren't many sports you can saw that about. It's what gives NFL fans hope, because they know their team's fortunes can change very quickly.
     
  29. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Exactly. But it still doesn't mean fans should sit back and not expect their team to improve or not to voice their displeasure when things are not going well. Some may take it too far at time, I am one, but fans should still hold their teams accountable
     
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  30. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I don't believe that I implied anything of the sort. All I said, was that football fans have more reason to hope every year than fans of other professional sports.
     

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