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OK since norv is here

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by charger1993, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    yea i wasnt sure why he brought up that either, and i totally agree with you, If i was Dean Spanos, and Norv turner would have inherited a 14-2 team loaded with talent, and i watched him not utilize the weapons he has, and watch AJ Smith piss our draft picks away like warm beer, Both of their ***'s would have been gone, Especially after 2009
     
  2. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Okay...I'm not sure you're understanding what I'm asking...I'll take one more shot.

    I was asking--since you're so very, very upset about how the last five years have gone--
    if you are familiar with any other FIVE YEAR BLOCK of Charger history, in which the
    worst year was 8-8...you know, to put the current unacceptable times into some kind of perspective.

    (of course, if you prefer the "I don't want any historical perspective...facts just cloud
    my opinions" approach," I'm sure matilack will offer you a shoulder...) :)
     
  3. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Can you show me another 5 year block where there was zero divisional competition and where a coach got to take over a stacked 14-2 team? Most new coaches take over when the team is in the dumps, so their records are skewed while they try to bring the team from the depths of hell to prominence. That is something Norv didn't have to do in any place he has been. In Oakland, they were only 1 year removed form 3 straight 10+ win seasons and in Washington they were one year removed from 4 straight winning seasons. Norv doesn't deserve the pat on his back for our record that you want to give him, at least not in my opinion
     
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  4. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    there is no other year where the chargers Worst year was 8-8, but there are years where they done worse. And Let me ask you this. " How can you be happy with this team and its Decisions, our owner is Content with a .500 Season, our GM piss's first round picks down the drain, Liuget= 1 sack, and what a hand full of tackles, Mathews+ fumbles but is improving still not a 12 overall pick, Larry English= do i even need to go on with him CLay mathews, ray mualauga, Michael oher so on so on, antoine cason= laughable corner back, Buster Davis=hahaha who, glass man," we havent exactaly hit in the draft, how can you take pride in a joke of a coaching staff, a joke of a front office, monkeys could draft better
     
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  5. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Dude,I've addressed the 14-2 thing 10 times. If YOU really believe that any other coach was going
    to take that over-achieving team, minus it's OC, minus it's DC, with a new coach and an older LT and
    Gates to 14-2, you just don't know much about football. I'm sorry I can't be more polite about it,
    but the 14-2 thing doesn't work on me. Was it a good team? Yes? Was it great? No.
    Gruden took a Super Bowl winner to sub .500 over 6 seasons.
    Norv took a 1 and done team to .61 over 5 seasons. That doesn't make him Lombardi...
    but it doesn't indicate that he sucks, either. I'm no Norv fan...but the pathologically anti-Norv
    are just irrational.
     
  6. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Sorry, like matilack, you've exhausted my patience. You're furious at the current 5 years...
    you just prefer to ignore how it fits in the big picture.
    And you have to pretend that I'm "happy" with things as they are now.
    Matlack tried that lie last night. Ask him how it turned out.

    Do you really not understand that there's a HUGE gap between being "happy"
    and simply not being a hysterical, whiny little b__tch acting as though the sky has fallen
    and these are the worst of times...when any long term fan knows these are far, far from the worst
    we've been through. Having informed perspective is not the same as not being disappointed...
    why is that so hard for the whiners to understand?
     
  7. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    There's alot of difference between the team Gruden inherited and norv inherited, Norv inherited a LB corp that WAS DOMINATE, A secondary who caused turn overs, A hall of fame RB, A hall of Fame TE, A damn good FB that Belongs in the HOF in Lorenzo neal, A Young QB to build a team around to help, What did Norv do? NOTHING. GRuden Has a Rind as a HC, Does Norv??? NO. The team that went 14-2 Should have won the Superbowl but we lost Because of more the horrible Play Calling. You not acknowledging the fact that The Team Norv inherited was more that excellent is asinine, He was handed the keys to a Ferrari but drove it like a Passat, and ran straight into a ditch, a now has a old slow team, that generates no pass rush, no turn overs, barely any running game, and what has he done to address this? nothing. We have no O-line, No D-line that can consistently take up blocks rather than getting sat down. No LB's to take over because we draft Larry English's over Clay Matthews. I could aggree with you if you could understand how he had ran this team into the ground. I mean For Christ Sakes, He was the Coach in OAKLAND AND WE SIGNED HIM. AND NOT WHAT ARE WE OAKLAND A BUNCH OF BUMS
     
  8. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    ok let me say this then, what big picture is there right now? when we had buddy nix and AJ smith we were drafting good, but since then we havent, There is no Big picture when you dont replenish what your team has lost through the draft, it wont be long before we end up like the rams, a Effing joke. Im not acting like the sky has fallen. IM acting out of disappointment that OUR TEAM IS OK WITH THIS MEDIOCRE PERFORMANCE, AND LACK TO WIN .. How many superbowls have the Chargers won??? now how many times have we been in the play offs??? this is a joke. and a pathetic excuse for a coaching staff and front office. we will not do anything in this draft. We will continually fall down hill until we are a rebuilding team and not a contender. Do you think that Pittsburgh, Baltimore, The Patriots would put up with a head coach like this??? no cause they want to win. Look at Pitts rings. i mean get real man
     
  9. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    I didn't say he had to duplicate 14-2, I said he took over a very good team and his career record with the Chargers is skewed by the talented team he took over.

    Gruden is not a good coach either, which is why I never wanted him.
     
  10. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Hindsight is 20:20. I'd bet dollars to donuts that very few people AT THE TIME OF THE DRAFT would have selected Clay Matthews with that pick we used on English. Likely fewer would have selected Larry English, but pointing to - well... we could/should have taken Matthews is an argument that you can only make in hindsight. He was a 2nd round graded prospect who a GM/DC combo who became enamored with took a calculated risk on and made what was considered at the time to be a reach (just because it happened to go boom doesn't make it any less of a reach at the time). Much the same with Maualuga - he was seen as an ILB through and through - and in the pre rookie wage scale era of the draft, unless an ILB prospect had off-the-charts upside (Willis, Beason) they weren't valued in the 1st round... by ANY NFL GM's not just ours.

    You want laughable? Your assessment of Liuget is laughable. Except in certain systems, you don't judge 5-Technique DE's strictly off sacks - unless you have no clue what their duties actually entail. Furthermore, barring the freak athletes (of which none at the 5-Tech position were on the board by the time we picked) 5-Technique and NT players take at least a season to develop into being pro-capable because of the size and strength increase that's necessary for that collegiate to pro jump. But then, you know... research and history only back me up on that, that's all. It wouldn't have mattered if we had drafted Cameron Jordan, Cameron Heyward, Pernell McPhee, or Liuget, the necessity of the time to transition would have existed.

    Heck, even the guys who were off the board (Dareus and Watt) needed to go through the transition and add of bulk, they just had the kind of rare athletic ability to enable them to find success earlier, which... wait for it... was why they were selected before the other guys were.
     
  11. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    i didnt like any defensive lineman in last years draft, and im not judging him off of sacks, im just saying he only had one which disappointed me, i rather him take up blocks and let the linebackers free, it didnt really happen all that much. and larry english wasnt even slotted for a first, and as i recall everyone was screaming for oher..
     
  12. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Everyone was screaming Oher, but guess what? As seems to appear to be the case, Oher has shown to be much more of a natural RT than a natural LT (sorry Sandra Bullock, but he has shown that he doesn't really have the lateral agility to compete with high-level speed rushers at the pro level - and you'll find a number of Baltimore fans who admit this freely); it's why many fans in Baltimore were lamenting not being able to retain Gaither because Gaither was a better LT than Oher, and Oher was a better RT than Gaither (put on the tape from Oher's rookie season when the two played together to the tape from the following year when Cam switched them respectively from one side to the other - the later had each out of their natural position). It's pretty much the same thing that Green Bay is realizing is the case with Brian Bulaga. And very few teams ever draft RT's in the 1st round, and if/when it happens it's late.

    My point remains, you have to put the pick made in context with what was known at the time about the prospects - not what we've seen come to pass since. I'm sure all GM's would love to have a crystal ball that shows them which prospects end up succeeding by the 2nd and 3rd years and which ones don't... but this ain't Hogwarts and AJ's not Professor Snape.

    If we're using hindsight then when we traded up to #12 and selected Mathews, we would know that JPP turns into a beast so we should have just selected him there. Thing is, again... look at what was known at the time. He was initially a 2nd round graded player (because he only had one year of notable production, but did have unique and high-level athletic ability), who boosted his stock to being anywhere from the #20-30 range because of his upside and depending on the scheme he was being asked to play in. (Note: This is part of the reason why Buck and I have been so up in arms about a need to just flat out draft BPA - as in the player with the most upside - with any and every 1st round pick we get, because those guys tend to have the biggest potential to make the largest impact).
     
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  13. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    i realize that, but half of the players we pick are way more than just reaches
     
  14. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Half? Really? Reaches based upon whose standards? Yours? WalterFootball.com's? Mel "I'm in the Back Pocket of Player Agents" Kiper? Feel free to prove that. You might... might be able to make that argument for our 1st rounders (though Cason wasn't a sizable reach, he had high 2nd graded stock and we picked him in the bottom of the 1st), but just in the 3 recent drafts that everyone wants to hold over AJ's head you've got Butler, Thomas, Martin, Vasquez, Ellison, Gilchrist (yes, if you listen to reports from actual front office staffs and not just the internet pundits, he had low-2nd stock because of his versatility), Wright, Brown (went higher 3rd, but was still valued by most teams as a mid-to-late 3rd rounder), and Green (went pretty much right where his stock said he should)... no notable reaches there.

    I'm not saying don't be upset, I'm just saying temper the level to which you're upset because you seem to have unrealistic or just very skewed expectations of what's going on around the league. You're assuming the grass is greener, but plenty of other teams are missing just as often as AJ has - plenty of teams are making reaches just as willingly and often as AJ is.
     
  15. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    i understand the reach concept, but for example jonas mounton huge reach, liuget wasnt he fell to us. larry english was a reach by a whole round.jacob hester reach like no ones business. no one can predict what kind of player theyre gonna be. but i mean holes can be filled smartly. i dont agree with major reaching
     

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