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Planning for the worst possible draft scenario

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by matilack, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    You said they had 2nd round grades on all of them.
     
  2. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    The tag is going on either Brandon Albert or Dwayne Bowe, my guess is Bowe, while one will be re-signed, Brandon Albert. Andy Reid has also selected a DT in the first round 5 times.

    And I believe the same on Ansah, but it won't stop teams from drafting him in the top-10, thank Jason Pierre-Paul for that.

    Mingo has a great step off the snap, he is tall, long and explosive, that's what teams like. Obviously he isn't the biggest, but an NFL strength & conditioning program should help him gain a solid 10 pounds or so.

    But again, everyone has their own opinions. I would draft Star and Jarvis if they checked out medically, but not by our doctor, cause Chao clears everyone.
     
  3. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    The Chargers supposedly do, those were my grades on them.
     
  4. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    I dont agree with that...

    Looking at the cap #, we now have almost 4mil more in cap space (123.9 rather than 120.3 last year IIRC) than was projected due to a raised salary cap (so its 9.9 rather than 6.3 now), and then add to that that we save 5mil flat if we release Garay, and add another 3-5 from vaious other cuts, so we will have anywhere form 15-20 mil almost for sure.

    Will Beatty has been near elite without getting the credit he deserves the past year or two, and his deal commanded about 7.5 mil a year. Cant see Albert getting a bigger deal than that, so assume its in the 6-7 mil range (similar to what we paid Gaither), and its a real possibility especially if we get an elevating deal so we can save cap space this year (maybe have a 5-6 mil cap hit this year) since we still have Clary/Gaither to affect the cap this year, that we likely wont have to deal with next year, which saves us about 10 mil in cap space next year, for guys who can be replaced by a rookie deal, is saving HUGE money.

    That gives us the flexibility to wait for an OT like Kyle Long, Menalik Watson, maybe Chris Faulk, among plenty of other project OT's that can be had a little later, but also still allows us a chance to scoop up a guy like Fisher if he does fall to us anyway, while still being able to look at pass rush (Mingo/Jordan) or OG (Warmack/Cooper)or just general BPA.
     
  5. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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  6. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    So where did you see that? Ive not seen it mentioned anywhere.
     
  7. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    well 3.5 million more. OK, so we have 9.8.

    Yes we will save on a few players but Gates, Rivers, Meachum, ...anybody that is to be back will have higher cap numbers. So till we see what it officially is, we dont have a lot of room to sign a huge contract. Maybe they can sign one but that would strap them a bit.

    Hey i hope we can, but just dont see a lot of room happening there right now. Dont know what a cap hit on a 5 year, 45 million deal would be and then ther is Vasquez that they want to keep who would probably be in the 30 million range.
     
  8. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    I really dont think Vasquez is as necessary as some people thing. I think Levitre will get about the same money and he's an upgrade, but our new OL coach has really been known for making something out of nothing at OG, and doesn't seem like he places high value on his OG's. I think we'll see a random OG brought in, probably see Troutman, Schilling, Green, possibly Harris and maybe even see Clary work at OG as he seems to fit the bill for the new blocking scheme, probably a OG/OT brought in like Dallas Thomas, Menalik Watson, Kyle Long brought in, so i dont think we'll dedicate that much money to Vasquez, and he'll likely if he comes back, it will be for a bit of a hometown discount.
     
  9. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Could not possibly agree more. I would save the money we would spend on Vaz and throw it in to get a starting offensive tackle on either side. Kyle Long would be an ideal OG in D'Alessandris' blocking scheme, and there are some 3rd day prospects like Uzzi, Watford and Hansen who could step in day 1 and be nice starters. I also think we shouldn't count out Baxter or Molk as potential options at RG.

    If we're gonna spend money on O-line it should start from the outside, in.
     
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  10. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    I dont necessarily think that, i just think that workable OG's are easier to find than workable OT's, especially with a guy known for developing OG's. I absolutely LOVE Watford by the way.

    We have already said that we are going to dedicate this offseason to rebuilding the OL, from the money for FA's to the Draft. So expect at least 2 OL in the draft and at least 1 or 2 OL coming in through FAs.
     
  11. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Its possible though I dont see Clary going to OG. And it was reported that Vasquez was a high priority for them to try and keep so we'll see. Rather have LeVitre over Vasquez but well see what happens.
    Agree it is easier to find OG's than OT's. If they dont resign Vasquez i dont really care. He hasnt been that good til last year. If the new OL coach can work some magic on other lower tier OG's than great but we do need a LT and a RT. Clary IMO is just below average.

    Sent from my GS3
     
  12. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    The Chiefs have been running the 3-4. Shariff Floyd can play the 5-tech in the 3-4, and they'll most likely keep Tyson Jackson unless he doesn't restructure.

    And yes, because both Jason Pierre-Paul didn't have a hole lot of experience in college and was still the #15 pick. So teams will look at Ansah the same, he might even be a little more of an athlete than JPP, and that might be enough to have him go top 5.
     
  13. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Mike Harris played a little OG at UCLA, and he'd fit well with the ZBS at OT, OG possibly as well.

    Johnnie Troutman is similar to Louis Vasquez, both are maulers.

    I think we could get Vasquez at $5M a year, Andy Levitre will get his $6M a year, so if we could get Vas at $5M I'd say that's pretty good.

    Can't stress it enough guys, you can't throw 5 new OL together and expect immediate results. Nick Hardwick and Louis Vasquez have to be back, at a minimum. Then you start looking at guys who played together, Demetress Bell and Chad Rinehart, both could slide in at LOT and LOG. I hate the idea of Bell coming in, but after thought, with 3 of the best tackles going in the top 10, we might have to give him a show and prove, and also a former Joe D lineman. Only question will be ROT for this year. I'd still, however draft a LOT reasonably high since Bell would come in on a show and prove type contract, and draft a ROT to possibly start from day 1.

    I wouldn't mind this,

    LOT: Demetress Bell, Menelik Watson (2nd rounder)
    LOG: Chad Rinehart, Mike Harris
    C: Nick Hardwick, David Molk
    ROG: Louis Vasquez, Johnnie Troutman
    ROT: Brandyn Dombrowski, David Quessenberry (4th rounder)
     
  14. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Yes i know. My point was that Andy Reid has been running 4-3 defenses his whole career in Philly. If they do not resign Albert, imo they will use the #1 pick on a LT which would be cheaper than Albert and better value than picking a DL at #1.
     
  15. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Dombrowski is no upgrade and is a FA. Doubt the new regime has any thoughts about him at all except he was one of the scrubs we had on our OL.

    Not sure there is a big upgrade with that unit...lol. In fact i think Dombro is a downgrade even from Clary. Rinehart was a backup in Buffalo who filled in when Urbik was hurt and Bell got beat out by King Dunlap last season. I hope this isnt what we end up with and aim higher than that.
     
  16. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    How is Dombrowski a scrub again? 3 years ago he played LOT, clearly wasn't his position, but he didn't play bad at all. The fact is, he's been here, and I think would actually be an upgrade over Clary at ROT in the ZBS.

    Rinehart was a good fill in guy. I think with Joe D here, he is ready to be a starter. He can get on a mean streak too, but also could be Hardwick replacement at center in a few years, he can play LOT, LOG, ROG, and ROT. He's a guy who can play all over the place. And guys like this are actually held at a premium now, because there are so many injuries throughout the year.

    Bell sucked in Philly, no doubt about it. But he wasn't bad in Buffalo.

    I don't know what you expect from a team that will have $15-20M to play with in free agency, and, what is shaping to be a draft that consists of 3 of the top LOT's going in the top 10. I'd love to hear some ideas..
     
  17. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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  18. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Then clearly you and I have different definitions of "not bad". Because I consider getting beaten like a rented mule by Kamerion Wimbley to be bad and that's exactly what happened to Dombro when he was lining up at LOT. He's a guard, maybe a reserve RT in a pinch, but he just doesn't have the agility and feet to play tackle that's part of the main reason he was getting wrecked by a speed rushers. There's value to re-signing him, but counting on him as a starter isn't smart in the slightest.

    Rinehart isn't going to be a long-term replacement for any starting position, let alone Hardwick. Nick's got one more, maybe two at most season's left in him. By that point Rinehart is 30 when the season starts? Fair stop-gap, not much beyond that. Not saying there's not value, but expectations need to be tempered.
     
  19. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    I'd be mad if this is what our line was next year. Domb doesn't deserve a roster space anymore, let alone to be counted on as a starter, pretty sure he's played in less games over the last 2-3 years than Gaither has, and he wasn never very good to begin with, and wasn't there some thing with him about how Domb really didn't like playing on the right side, or wasn't comfortable there...

    I'm as big of a Watson supporter as they come, and overall, he needs so much work, and only Bell in front of him scares the living hell out of me. Sure Bell will come cheap, but he hasn't played in a year and there's no guarantee of anything, we cant put someone so raw behind him and hope for the best. Bell played LT and Rinehart played RG, there's almost nothing that puts them together other than they know each other. I think we'll keep 1 or 2 starters from the last OL, but beyond that, we may have an entirely new OL.

    Hardwick will be back, no doubt. And we guaranteed will not carry 10 OL, the norm is 8, high is usually 9.
     
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  20. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I'm talking 2010 Dombrowski, he started 8 games at LOT. That year he didn't play bad, but if your referring to two years ago when he was thrown in on a TNF game to go in and take over for McNeill when he had no reps at LOT all season/pre-season that's a little harsh don't you think?

    I'd be mad as well, but you got to face reality. People just think were gonna throw a line together and it will be perfect and better than 2012. We need continuity, that's been the damn problem with this team, all of Rivers' trusted players are pretty much gone, his O-line aged, retired and declined terribly (Clary).

    I mean if were gonna get desperate and look at guys like Max Starks, don't expect anything big coming out of next year. There is a reason why Pittsburgh is letting him go, did you guys not see Roethlisburger get chewed up last year? He is 32, has had his injuries, but also has a lot of wear and tear.

    And we can't become picky when it comes to free agency, because bottom line is, we're not getting Brandon Albert or Jake Long like some people like to dream.

    I, myself can't wait to see what our line looks like, but I bet mostly everyone here will be disappointed because you think we're gonna bring in guys that are big names and all-pros.
     
  21. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Are you kidding he played horrendously, I remember Chris Clemons eating his lunch that day in Seattle, it was a disastrous showing by the O-line almost every week he was at LT, it was a big part of the 2-5 start.

    I agree I think most of us will be disappointed if our O-line looks anything like you just projected it.
     
  22. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I said he didn't play bad. I didn't say he played well either did I?

    Let me see some other projected offensive lines please.. I don't think it can get significantly better..
     
  23. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    LT - Lane Johnson (1st), Mike Harris
    LG - Barrett Jones (2nd), Ty Green
    C - Nick Hardwick, David Molk
    RG - Colin Baxter, Johnnie Troutman
    RT - Ryan Harris (FA), Kevin Haslam

    Thats if we only sign a relatively cheap mid-tier RT and the draft falls our way in regards to Johnson. I would also gladly accept Pugh or Long in the 3rd round if Barrett Jones doesn't fall to us in the 2nd. But assuming its no longer a safe bet that Johnson falls to us and things don't always go as planned....

    LT - Jake Long (FA), Mike Harris
    LG - Justin Pugh (3rd), Ty Green (or Brandyn Dombrowski)
    C - Nick Hardwick, David Molk
    RG - Colin Baxter, Johnnie Troutman
    RT - Terron Armstead, Kevin Haslam (or Menelik Watson, or David Bakhtiari)

    This would of course free us up to take the BPA at 11, or possibly trade down. But another scenario....

    LT - Lane Johnson, Mike Harris
    LG - Justin Pugh (3rd), Ty Green
    C - Nick Hardwick, David Molk
    RG - Earl Watford (6th), Johnnie Troutman
    RT - Brandon Albert (FA), Kevin Haslam

    Now Albert would likely be the most expensive RT in the league, but he'd be a legitimate fail safe at LT if in fact one of the big 3 don't actually fall to us. I love the thought of Rivers having solid bookend OTs for the first time in his career.
     
  24. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I like the tackle spots, but I can't see it happening. Free agency comes before the draft. So how do you know if Lane Johnson falls to us or not?

    Honestly, Jake Long is looking for $11M/year, won't get it, probably going to get close to $8M/year to a team with the cap space to do so. Telesco said no big names here, can't see Brandon Albert either. There gonna command high salaries. And, I can only see us signing one guy that's going to get $2M+/year and thats our own Louis Vasquez.

    Barrett Jones' value in the NFL is surely at center. He's not athletic enough to play OG, and especially in a ZBS. I can't see it. Long is a round 2 pick as well.
     
  25. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    1. Well this is the point I was trying to make all along, not only is our hand forced in the draft due to our LT situation, but if enter the draft without a legitimate LT and we miss out on the "big 3" we are screwed. Terron Armstead is not ready to start, and there is no guarantee he falls to us anyway in the 2nd round.

    2. Don't listen to anything you hear about contract demands, agents always aim higher than the players worth, ALWAYS, and they almost never get it. $11 mil a year is hysterically high for Jake Long, and in fact on the same day that number came out PFT.com reported this ""little or no chatter in league circles" about any team making a major push for free agent LT Jake Long." so right away you have to lower that number. The same goes for Albert as his current team is spurning him in favor of spending the #1 pick as a "cost cutting measure."

    3. I think Jones is mobile enough to play guard in a ZBS, with the added benefit that we have Hardwick's eventual replacement on the roster.
     
  26. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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  27. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    That's why unfortunately, we might be going into the season with Jared Gaither at LOT. Only suitable replacements that are not going to be rookies and affordable, and given that 3 of the top OT's will be gone in the draft, are Sam Baker, Demetress Bell, King Dunlap, and Will Svitek.

    LOT: Sam Baker, Mike Harris
    LOG: Donald Thomas, Tyronne Green
    C: Nick Hardwick, David Molk
    ROG: Louis Vasquez, Johnnie Troutman
    ROT: Terron Armstead (3rd rounder), Menelik Watson (2nd rounder)

    Sam Baker is probably the best option we have, because I just don't believe Long or Albert will be here. Although, Albert did spend his rookie year working with Joe D'Alessandris, doubt there is any connection. I'm not a huge fan of Baker at all, but he did play and start in all 18 games the Falcons were in, gave up only 3.5 sacks and committed 0 penalties. Baker did hold his own against Dumervil and Miller this year, not allowing a sack, but was bull rushed back a few times.

    Hopefully Menelik Watson will be ready to take over LOT in the next few years or stay at home at ROT. I think if it was between him and Armstead at ROT, Armstead would get the nod because he has been playing football a lot longer and has 30+ starts at the collegiate level. Plus he's quick enough to keep Von Miller and others in front of him.

    But who knows what happens, free agency starts in 9 days, should be interesting.
     
  28. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    I do not expect big names(i never thought we would sign Albert of Long) but i also do not expect scrubs like Dombroski. Sorry but he is a scrub and Duffman is right, he said he isnt comfortable on the right side. He isnt a OT period. While as i said i dont expect Albert or Long, maybe Bushrod could be on their radar.

    Bell would be for me a huge disapointment as our starting LT. I dont mind facing reality but that imo isnt a reality scenario and isnt a upgrade to our OL with the lineup you had. Id be surprised if Dombroski is resigned let alone being our starting RT.
     
  29. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Well I know one thing, we will have at least 2-3 offensive starters returning, and at minimum 2 of them will be a starter on this line. And we will indeed have a rookie starting, whether he's taken in the 1st or 2nd round, or both.
     
  30. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    TT? Is that you? Oh how nice of you to tell us exactly what your plan for this OL is....:cool:
     

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