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Positional Rankings

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by Jesse Kemp, Dec 26, 2013.

  1. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Intrigued by Marcus Martin, has long arms (34 inches) just what Joe D likes, the strength in his hands are his strongest attributes, he abused some DTs this year.
     
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  2. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    Joe D sure does like arm length, but where the hell did you get that number from, he hasn't measured in at the combine, or anything else yet, unless you got it from Jon Martin or something like that.

    But i dont like martin from the little i've watched of him, i have to see if he gets any better. But his awareness is AWFUL, especially in pass pro, chases guys around, and even at times just bailed and ran downfield when he got caught in space...His punch looks good, but he really lunges at guys and interior DL in the NFL will eat him alive if he does that. Quickness, athleticism and raw power is there, but he's got a lot to work on before he gets a chance to play in the NFL, he's not a guy i like to help us right away.
     
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  3. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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  4. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Schefter late to the party on that one.

    Again, player development and finding players to fit the scheme. The fact that people still give Pagano a pass for this previous year because of the 'lack of talent' just irks me. He's entering the 3rd year as DC and he's had 3 off-seasons to find players that fit his scheme. If your not going to find those players, at least adjust your scheme to fit what you have.

    Rob Ryan took over New Orleans in 2013, after their dismal 2012 season as a defense in which they ranked 32nd, added a few players, no big, marquee names and turned them into the 4th best defense in the league.
     
  5. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    My positional rankings so far...

    QB

    1 T. Bridgewater
    2. B. Bortles
    3. D. Carr
    4. AJ McCarron
    5. J. Manziel

    RB

    1. T. Mason
    2. K. Carey
    3. B. Sankey
    4. C. Hyde
    5. T. West

    FB

    1. T. Millard
    2. JC Copeland
    3. J. Prosch
    4. R. Hewitt
    5. L. Taliaferro

    TE

    1. J. Amaro
    2. E. Ebron
    3. A. Sefarian-Jenkins
    4. T. Niklas
    5. CJ Fiedorowicz

    OT

    1. J. Matthews
    2. G. Robinson
    3. M. Moses
    4. C. Kouandijo
    5. T. Lewan

    OG

    1. Zack Martin
    2. D. Yankey
    3. X. Sua Filo
    4. G. Jackson
    5. C. Richardson

    C

    1. T. Swanson
    2. Weston Richburg
    3. T. Larson
    4. B. Stork
    5. M. Martin

    NT

    1. L. Nix III
    2. J. Ellis
    3. B. Allen
    4. Z. Kerr
    5. R. Carrethers

    3-4 DE

    1. R. Hageman
    2. S. Tuitt
    3. K. Quarels
    4. D. Jones
    5. A. Johnson

    3-4 OLB

    1. A. Barr
    2. K. Mack
    3. K. Van Noy
    4. D. Ford
    5. C. Smith

    3-4 ILB

    1. CJ Mosely
    2. Y. Smallwood
    3. S. Skov
    4. C. Jones
    5. C. Borland

    CB

    1. D. Dennard
    2. J. Gilbert
    3. SJ Baptiste
    4. J. Verrett
    5. L. Purifoy

    FS/SS

    1. C. Pryor
    2. H. Clinton-Dix
    3. D. Buchannon
    4. J. Ward
    5. E. Reynolds
     
  6. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    Just finished a much needed update. Went to 10 in every position but FB.
     
  7. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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  8. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    What's the consensus on Devon Kennard and Ron Powell?
     
  9. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Robert Herron ran a 4.25 and 4.29 at his pro day. Natural hands as well. Look how he uses that speed in his cuts. We spoke with him at the combine.
     
  10. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Also wanna know what some of y'all think about Bruce Ellington and TJ Jones?
     
  11. MtlBoltsFan

    MtlBoltsFan Jesse Ventura/Howard Stern 2016

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    Right now the strategy should be to bring in guys with freakish tools and a lunchpail work ethic and allow Joe D to work his magic. Martin abused Louis Nix and in general is a solid prospect with upside because he is young but he lacks great awareness as a blocker and I don't know if I like him better at G or at C.

    The other guy with freakish tools is Brandon Thomas from Clemson. He has the ability to be a stud pass protector in the league at LT or LG but my worry is just like DJ Fluker he struggles with inside moves, even though he does a great job sealing the edge. I worry about him moving to LG and not being able to handle the slippery guys inside but that said his upper body strength is phenomenal and if the Chargers drafted a guy who sucks negating inside moves like Fluker, they would draft a Brandon Thomas.
     
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  12. MtlBoltsFan

    MtlBoltsFan Jesse Ventura/Howard Stern 2016

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    Listen I found this guy years ago and loved him in college along with Brett Smith

    That said even though he has decent hands and straight line speed he is nowhere near the kind of prospect guys I found like Emmanuel Sanders and Antonio Brown or Mike Wallace were. He is fool's good. He looks fast and like he can run and catch on the practice field against scrubs but I doubt he is able to separate consistently from NFL DBs, his route running just is not where it needs to be. Will never be anything special but could stick around as a subpar slot WR for some team.
     
  13. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    A lot of people see some of the guys that he's brought in at OT and thats how they think Joe D's scheme is. Its really not like that at all. Especially if you look at the history of OG's hes brought in. As a former OL, i've done a lot of work trying to figure out what kind of players and trends Joe D has liked in the past (ala, he's never drafted an OT with under 35" arms, or an OT that is under 310...). He tends to like 2 types of G's. One of which is a more agile, former OT, who doesn't necessarily have the length/height to play OT (see Levitre, Asper (sorta fits into both catagories, played some RT at UO), or Ed Wang), or guys from very similar schemes and come from schools that have a high pedigree in producing OL (Namely Urbik, and Kyle Calloway). Its hard to truly get a judge of this because he's only been a head OL coach for 3 years previous to this, and well, you only draft so many Interior OL.

    His scheme places a high value on awareness and technique for the inside OL. With OT's, he loves his athleticism and length. But look at the inside guys he's had/taken when he was an assistant at KC and the OL coach at Buff. Andy Levitre, Kraig Urbik, Eric Wood and Jon Asamoah (not entirely sure he was a Joe D choice since Joe D was just the assistant OL coach). All of whom are very technical, hard working OL, who dont necessarily have huge ceilings or mauling strength in the run game, but they're more laterally agile guys who know what their assignment is and just execute.

    Thats a big part in why i dont like Martin. Martin has a complete lack of awareness. I saw him, more than once, chase a NT or blitzing ILB to the other side of the OG, almost to the OT in pass pro...which should NEVER happen. He just seems to get lost in space, and with a system that requires guys to block on the move, thats a bad fit for him.

    I do like Brandon Thomas, as well as LBC's guy Bitonio (AMAZING fit for this scheme), Weston Richburgh (my top C for Joe D), I've heard good things about Dozier, but haven't seen enough of him to make a true Judgement, Cam Fleming is really interesting for me at RG, and he can also play some RT if Dunlap is injured again. And then later guys like Austin Wentworth, Ryan Groy (another great scheme fit that'll get passed over because of just being a scheme fit rather than a super talented player). Honestly i could see Brandon Thomas fitting as a LT in this scheme if Joe D can make some corrections, he has the feet and length to do it.

    As for Brandon Thomas' problem with inside moves, i think thats more of an issue that would be covered up at OG. A lot of times that happens because guys dont trust their length to protect outside, so they overextend and get beat back inside. At OG, he's not going to get overextended and can stay home, and i dont think that'll be an issue.
     
  14. MtlBoltsFan

    MtlBoltsFan Jesse Ventura/Howard Stern 2016

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    Bitonio and Thomas both look like sure fire NFL starters. Thomas is more finesse than Bitonio and due to his arm length and strong accurate hand punch is the better candidate to be a successful NFL tackle. Bitonio exhibits more lower body power and leg drive to have a road grading element to his game and more solid base (which is weird because when you look at Bitonio he looks top heavy with broad shoulders and a slim waist) which Thomas lacks and is better suited inside. Bitonio has to work on his hand placement and learn how to grab inside the shoulders properly, something Thomas is really good at.

    Ultimately Bitonio is a safer prospect IMO with Thomas providing higher upside but some bust potential if he can't work out his issues. Bitonio reminds me of John Greco.
     
  15. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    Bitonio just plays flat out MEAN. Thats why he looks like he has so much more strength. I like the Greco comp, He kinda reminds me of Levitre (LBC's comp initially) in the way he blocks on the move, and his agility/quickness.

    I think Bitonio is the perfect guy for Joe D at OG. Fits what Joe D likes and fits the mentality that our coaches/GM love. I could see him picked up in the 2nd round, maybe 3rd.
     
  16. MtlBoltsFan

    MtlBoltsFan Jesse Ventura/Howard Stern 2016

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    What's up with having Calvin Pryor the #2 safety? He is fool's gold....... it doesn't matter that he looks tough and gets so much hype, 50% of the time he is out of position in coverage and he routinely takes bad angles to the ballcarrier and overpursues. He is such an unreliable player and slow in the head. He is uncontrolled aggression and for every play he makes he will fail to make 2.
     
  17. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    My latest big board:
    1. J. Clowney, DE/OLB, South Carolina
    2. S. Watkins, WR, Clemson
    3. G. Robinson, OT, Auburn
    4. T. Bridgewater, QB, Louisville
    5. K. Mack, OLB, Buffalo
    6. J. Matthews, OT, Texas AM
    7. M. Evans, WR, Texas AM
    8. H. Clinton-Dix, S, Alabama
    9. A. Donald, DE, Pittsburgh
    10. D. Dennard, CB, Michigan State
    11. A. Barr, OLB, UCLA
    12. K. Ealy, DE/OLB, Missouri
    13. L. Nix, NT, Notre Dame
    14. B. Cooks, WR, Oregon State
    15. K. Fuller, CB, Virginia State
    16. J. Verrett, CB, TCU
    17. O. Beckham, WR, LSU
    18. B. Bortles, QB, Central Florida
    19. X. Su'a-Filo, G, UCLA
    20. J. Manziel, QB, Texas AM
    21. Z. Martin, OT/G, Notre Dame
    22. T. Jernigan, NT, Florida State
    23. C. Mosley, ILB, Alabama
    24. J. Amaro, TE, Texas Tech
    25. T. Lewan, OT, Michigan
    26. J. Attaochu, DE/OLB, Georgia Tech
    27. D. Ford, DE/OLB, Auburn
    28. R. Shazier, ILB, Ohio State
    29. B. Roby, CB, Ohio State
    30. M. Lee, WR, USC
    31. C. Pryor, SS, Louisville
    32. D. Easley, DL, Florida
    33. J. Bitonio, OL, Nevada
    34. J. Ward, S, Northern Illinois
    35. B. Thomas, OL, Clemson
    36. E. Ebron, TE, North Carolina
    37. J. Gilbert, CB, Oklahoma State
    38. T. Niklas, TE, Notre Dame
    39. K. Benjamin, WR, Florida State
    40. R. Hageman, DE, Minnesota
    41. J. Garoppolo, QB, East Carolina
    42. M. Martin, C, USC
    43. C. Latimer, WR, Indiana
    44. M. Moses, OT, Virginia
    45. C. Hyde, RB, Ohio State
    46. D. Carr, QB, Fresno State
    47. D. Lawrence, DE/OLB, Boise State
    48. L. Joyner, DB, Florida State
    49. T. Murphy, DE/OLB, Stanford
    50. W. Sutton, DL, Arizona State
    51. D. Adams, WR, Fresno State
    52. A. Seferian-Jenkins, TE, Washington
    53. G. Jackson, G, Mississippi State
    54. J. Matthews, WR, Vanderbilt
    55. Z. Mettenberger, QB, LSU
    56. C. Bradford, DE/OLB, Arizona State
    57. P. Gaines, CB, Rice
    58. K. Van Noy, OLB, BYU
    59. D. Moncrief, WR, Mississippi
    60. T. Mason, RB, Auburn
    61. T. Savage, QB, Pittsburgh
    62. A. Richardson, OT, Tennessee
    63. A. Robinson, WR, Penn State
    64. B. Ellington, WR, South Carolina
    65. P. Richardson, WR, Colorado
    66. R. Rodgers, TE, Cal
    67. C. Sims, RB, West Virginia
    68. K. Martin, DE/OLB, North Carolina
    69. B. Smith, QB, Wyoming
    70. S. Crichton, DE/OLB, Oregon State
    71. J. Hill, RB, LSU
    72. A. McCarron, QB, Alabama
    73. W. Richburg, C, Colorado State
    74. J. Halapio, G, Florida
    75. M. Smith, DE/OLB, Louisville
    76. C. Borland, ILB, Wisconsin
    77. J. Landry, WR, LSU
    78. D. Bucannon, S, Washington State
    79. J. Jeffcoat, DE/OLB, Texas
    80. L. Seastrunk, RB, Baylor
    81. B. Fales, QB, San Jose State
    82. T. Turner, G, LSU
    83. J. James, OT, Tennessee
    84. A. Lynch, TE, Georgia
    85. C. Reid, DL, Princeton
    86. D. Freeman, RB, Florida State
    87. B. Turner, OL, North Dakota State
    88. E. Gaines, CB, Missouri
    89. D. Jones, DL, Penn State
    90. D. Dozier, OL, Furman
    91. S. Richardson, CB, Arizona
    92. C. Fleming, OL, Stanford
    93. S. Tuitt, DE, Notre Dame
    94. A. Murray, QB, Georgia
    95. Z. Kerr, NT, Delaware
    96. K. Thornton, NT, S. Mississippi
    97. T. Brooks, S, Florida State
    98. E. Ferguson, DL, LSU
    99. J. Abbrederis, WR, Wisconsin
    100. K. Quarles, DE, South Carolina
    Positional Break Down:
    • QB: 11
    • RB: 6
    • WR: 15
    • TE: 6
    • OT: 7
    • G: 9
    • C: 2
    • OLB: 14
    • ILB: 3
    • DE/NT: 13
    • CB: 8
    • S: 6
     
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  18. Moses

    Moses Yeah Buddy!

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    Pretty reasonable list. If it was me I'd have put Bridgewater lower, and probably Cooks too.

    I got love for CJ Mosley so I'd put him higher, and Ebron & Gilbert should be higher too IMO.

    Do you think Brandon Thomas injury will cause him to slide a lot down the board?

    Also, do you prefer Beckham over Marquise Lee?
     
  19. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Very nice. Thank you for putting this up, I really like Jeremiah Attaochu, But I am a little curious as to why you put him so high, Is it based off of pure upside? Again like I said I really like the kid and was studying him a lot to see if he could warrant the 25th pick, while he did show great awareness, instincts and drive towards where the ball was at all times, it didn't seem consistent enough. Sometimes he seems like the best pass rusher finding anyway to run though or past the blocker to get to the QB or RB, while other times he seems to struggle mightily against the more NFL ready tackles like Moses, Thomas and Hurst.

    I'm not going against your board (as you know a lot more than I) its more a piqued interest as to your choice there.
     
  20. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    Ebron and Gilbert are two players that I think are fairly overrated. Ebron's hands are a problem. Could see him turn out to be another Jermichael Finley or even Jared Cook. And Gilbert plays the position with passivity; his technique needs a lot of work.

    Thomas will definitely be available later after the ACL. Could potentially be a steal for someone in, say, the 4th round.

    And I definitely prefer Beckham to Lee.
     
  21. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    No problem at all.

    My suspicion is that the NFL likes Attaochu a lot more than the media does at this point. I think the reason traces to his "poor offseason." First came the Senior Bowl, where he was asked to practice and play mostly 4-3 OLB (rather than DE like Dee Ford). He clearly isn't a fit there and it showed. So while no one really criticized him for it, he wasn't able to create any of that media "buzz."

    Then the Combine came around and he didn't work out. So there wasn't a chance for him to put of the sexy numbers under the spot light. And his pro day came and went quietly, though he put up a 4.58 forty, 1.55 ten yd split, 37.5" vert, and 7.28 three cone. The three cone isn't great, but the rest would have been top 3 numbers among pass rushers. Plus he's 6'3" 252 lbs with 33" arms with rush linebacker experience and has proved very durable in college.

    When I put on the tape, I see a guy with a lot of upside as an edge rusher. He doesn't bend quite as well as I would like, but with his explosiveness off the ball it's more than adequate. He definitely needs refinement-- as a rookie, he's just going to be a pass rush specialist. But the tools are there.

    He had pretty good battles with Moses, Thomas, and Hurst. He got the better of them on occasion with his first step quickness, or with redirection inside. In general, those games illustrate the need for him to use his hands more effectively in creating and sustaining separation so he can disengage more easily.
     
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  22. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff BoltTalker

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    Moses pretty much owned Attoachu in that game, this coming from an OT known for lacking a nasty, finishing demeanor. Attoachu may well go in the first but he doesn't belong there.
     
  23. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    Just rewatched yesterday. "Owned" is an exaggeration. Attaochu got the better of him on occasion on the outside, and redirecting inside. Moses certainly had many good snaps against him, as you would expect from a top 40 OT. But there was some back and forth there. "Owned" comes to mind when I watch Attaochu versus James Hurst.
     

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