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Rivers

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Ikeman83, Oct 9, 2012.

  1. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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  2. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    Well the fumbles are more the offensive line's fault, and once against the Titans I think he just tripped over his own feet and lost the ball. I wouldn't count on the fumbles continuing unless Gaither starts missing games again.

    The 16 picks is not the end of the world. The real problem with this offense is Norv bailing on the run game (even when we have a 2 score lead), and the continued lack of a 2 minute offense.
  3. socaldelmar
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    socaldelmar Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the word 'context' is in the average football fans' vocabulary
    • Agree Agree x 3
  4. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan
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    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Until he has committed those 26 turnovers, your question is asinine.
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  5. Skuzzlebutt
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    Skuzzlebutt BoltTalker

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    I don't think its a crazy question. He is on pace to have too many turnovers. If he continues on this pace, to answer your question, I do not believe we will make the playoffs. He MUST improve to take this team where we all want it to go. Over the past 21 games, Rivers has been average.

    On the bright side, last year he had a worse start and ended up having a very good second half. So if he is going to have a similar improvement, then we should be in good shape. But the turnovers have got to stop. He needs to get comfortable with his o-line and make it happen.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. LT-Express
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    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Well his 2 turnovers last night weren't even his fault. I mean the INT was PI, and deflected. The fumble was because Norv didn't get someone in there at the end of the game to replace Gaither who couldn't even stand. Any quarterback fumbles that ball.
  7. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Actually, the question would be grammatically asinine so formed if I were to be forced to wait until the qualifier, "committing the 26 turnovers", had already happened. In that case, the correct question would be, "Was this team able to get to the playoffs with Rivers having caused 26 turnovers for us?"

    Now that the grammar lesson has been attended to, let's get to the heart of the matter, specifically, the appropriateness of asking questions based on an unknown future. Do you think that it is always asinine to make projections about the future, or to consider possibilities which may or may not be the case? If so, we might as well throw out all of our future and subjunctive tenses. Feel free to try to go through a day without using the words would, could, should, or will and tell me how asinine it is.
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  8. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Whether any QB fumbles the ball, and whether the pick was his fault or not is irrelevant to the question. The question isn't whether Rivers is a turnover machine, but whether the team can make the playoffs with this rate of turnovers.
  9. Blue Bolt
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    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    [​IMG]
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  10. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan
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    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome.
  11. FCBolt
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    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Ike. It's required that you be more optimistic..;)
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  12. rickochey
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    rickochey BoltTalker

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    why isn't anyone talking about how Rivers and Norv kinda got into it during sundays game? I am kinda at the thinking that PR doesn't like Norv.
  13. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    that's adorable
  14. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan
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    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
  15. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    He'll cut it out.

    2 INT's vs ATL = His fault. But however, pocket was breaking down both times with a matter of seconds. OL did nothing for him that game and there were SO many dropped passes by our receivers that could of lead to scores which wouldn't result in Rivers' turnovers
    1 INT vs KC = His Fault.
    1 INT vs NO = Not his fault. Blatant PI and ball was tipped.

    1 INT vs Tenn I can't remember.

    But doesn't matter. He has Gaither back so that will strengthen his blindside. 2 fumbles weren't his fault either.

    this whole on pace crap is bologna. Ryan Fitzpatrick is on track to throw 36 TD's this season think he'll do it? NO.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Chargerfn909
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    Chargerfn909 High and tight kid, high and tight!

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    Rivers is average. QB's in this league have progressed while he's mildly digressed, leaving him, average. here's a list of QB's i'd take over phil in a heartbeat.

    Brady
    Brees
    Rodgers
    Rapelesberger
    E. Manning
    P. Manning
    Ryan
    Flacco
    Schaub
    Luck
    RG3
    Cutler
    Stafford

    I'd even venture out to say i'd rather have these guys as well:

    Alex Smith (dude straight up takes care of the ball and is showing he can make all the right throws)
    Andy Dalton (young, smart, reliable, only going up)
    and Christian Ponder (takes care of the ball, mobile, and showing great poise for his age)

    Bottom line is, we can't just drop the team on the back of Phil. He doesn't have a TRUE number 1, he lost his security blanket in Sproles, so it's up to Norv to figure out the best way to make this offense click. It's going to need more intermediate passes/slants/screens/bunch formations, and more importantly a healthy dose of battle/mathews. -- IF he doesn't snap out of his Air Coryell mind set, this O will slowly trickle from the 23rd overall offense down into the bottom 5.

    For the first time since 2006, I feel like we have a D that we can actually rely on. Hopefully Wright can do something when he steps back in, but even so, our young front 7 is only going to get better and create more and more pressure. Norv needs to identify our strengths and play to them, like any good coach would do....he's not as of right now.
    • Disagree Disagree x 5
  17. Skuzzlebutt
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    Skuzzlebutt BoltTalker

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    Hey, look at that! Some logic and reason behind optimism, fantastic! Much better than blind optimism and insulting those who are concerned which others are posting.

    I tend to agree with everything you are saying. I think the o-line will improve and be a big part of reducing turnovers. However, if the o-line doesn't improve, then the turnovers will still happen even if it isn't Phil's fault. That will get us closer to the current projection and keep us out of the playoffs.

    As for projections, I do agree that most will not happen, but I wouldn't go so far as to call them bologna. Worth taking note of, but better to use logic and intelligent arguments like yours to determine their likelihood.

    Cheers.
  18. Skuzzlebutt
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    Skuzzlebutt BoltTalker

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    Wow, couldn't disagree more (he is playing average today, however). Only guys I would take over Phil today are your top 3 plus Ryan. I don't think Phil's history can be ignored. Yes I fear he has slipped over the past 18 months, but I think most of that can be recovered and bring him back to elite status. Some of the guys on your list are simply products of their surroundings and would FAIL on our team.

    I'm down on the guy right now, but yikes! Eli? Flacco? CUTLER?!?
  19. Chargerfn909
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    Chargerfn909 High and tight kid, high and tight!

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    Eli? You kidding me? lol...2 super bowl rings and COOL as a cucumber when it matters the most.

    Flacco, the guy that has won playoff games each year of his career?

    Cutler has been lights out in Chicago, you'll see come the playoffs.


    Rivers history? How far you gonna go back? 18 months is more than just a 'trend'...
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  20. Chargerfn909
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    Chargerfn909 High and tight kid, high and tight!

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    List the teams with better 'surroundings' on my list, that you believe would FAIL on our team...
  21. rickochey
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    rickochey BoltTalker

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    Youre right Chicago will have their lights turned out before the playoffs.
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  22. rickochey
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    rickochey BoltTalker

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    I will always love Rivers and why the past two years he has gone away from the open man and has been trying to force it is out of what made him respected in SD. It might be time for not a new QB but a new QB coach or HC.
  23. Chargerfn909
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    Chargerfn909 High and tight kid, high and tight!

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    SD fans love Rivers bc he's full of fire, but tbh, I also think that's his achilles heal. He has schitt for poise and makes terrible decisions at the worst possible times.

    I think someone like Gruden that could bring in a west coast philosophy and change the entire locker room atmosphere would be ideal for Phillip, but I still don't think he'd be 'elite'.
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  24. HEXEDBOLT
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    HEXEDBOLT Well-Known Member

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    Since the inception of the forward pass QB's have been debated. Whether you "think" Rivers is Elite or a deadbeat really doesn't matter beyond your keyboard. Some of the "best" never won the big prize where some of the "worst" have, it's not up to one man on a team to bring a championship now or ever!!!
  25. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Bold = wildly better receivers than Rivers. For purposes of this argument, TEs who are primarily pass catchers count.

    Red = About to Retire.

    Underline = Injury Monkey

    I wouldn't take any of those guys over Rivers. I'd give Rivers some better playmakers and maybe use passing plays occasionally with routes shallower than 20 yards downfield. For some reason, apparently the entire NFL has figured out how to cover our outside passing routes, which is why Rivers is completing something like 80% of his passes over the middle and less than 60% of his passes outside (I don't remember the exact data, it was a graphic from the Saints game), and yet Norv hasn't. The other teams have the book on our offense, because while we've gotten more proficient at executing it, it hasn't evolved at all since 2009. Seriously, when was the last time you saw an original looking play by our team, or a drag or a crossing route? Our whole offense is the deep in/out, the post, and the 9. Norv needs to evolve his offense, or we're going to get owned. We acquired 2 speed guys, one of whom is a stunning slot receiver, and yet we don't maximize their abilities.

    I guarantee you that if you put Schaub or Stafford behind our line, throwing to our receivers, they'd be A) under a ratio of 1 for TDs to picks, and B) injured. Now, if you said that you wanted the offenses and players of those offenses, then I'd take the following over ours:

    NE
    Balt
    Houston
    NYG
    ATL
    NO
    GB

    I'd also give some real thought to the 49ers believe it or not. Their offense is very 2006 Chargers.
  26. Chargerfn909
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    Chargerfn909 High and tight kid, high and tight!

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    Neither his stats nor his trophy case dawn him as "elite", more so looks like he just had 2 good years..
  27. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Doesn't he have the 2nd most yards passing of all concurrently active QBs in the years he's been a starter?
  28. Chargerfn909
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    Chargerfn909 High and tight kid, high and tight!

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    Brady is about to retire? The dude hasn't slowed a notch. He easily has 4-5 years left.

    I think the difference between the really good QB's and the good/average ones is they MAKE the other players around them better.

    Houston is not stacked with a bunch of receivers. In fact all they have is AJ who is 31 and plagued with injuries. He's honestly not even playing at the level of a true #1. -- Put Victor Cruz on our team and see how well he does, bet you it's not 1/2 of what he gets done in NY.

    Torrey Smith has made strides, but honestly he's no better than Meachem, YET his production is leaps n bounds ahead of Robert.

    NE has Welker and Gronk (i'd cancel Gronk out with Gates, leaving just Welker above our talent)...Lloyd has been non existent, yet they still have the most potent offense in football.

    The Saints have Colston and Graham. Colston only looked like a world beater against us, he's honestly not THAT good. Just a big target. I bet if M80 was in N.O. he'd be more productive..

    ATL IS loaded with talent on O, however what makes Matt stand out is his poise. Go back and watch the Panther and Redskin games, he KNEW he was gonna win with limited time. When we are in a 2 minute offense all I can think is, disaster.
  29. Chargerfn909
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    Chargerfn909 High and tight kid, high and tight!

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    Passing yards hardly tell the story... Does you no good when you get down to the red zone and fumble the ball or throw a pick.
  30. HEXEDBOLT
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    HEXEDBOLT Well-Known Member

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    Only your opinion which doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. I'm sure his trophy case is quite nice, how many Bowl game trophy's do you have and what are your QB stats?? Please share, as now I want to know just how great you are.

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