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So, what's the board's general consensus of the coaching staff at this juncture?

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by HollywoodLeo, Nov 21, 2013.

  1. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    The pitchfork crowd may just be wiser than the head in the sand crowd ever gave them credit for.
  2. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    All I'm really saying is that the guy is very early in his head coaching career and isn't exactly working with a very talented (relative to his competition) roster.
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  3. JohnnyX
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    JohnnyX Well-Known Member

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    Why do the mistakes of McCoy have to be exactly the same as Norv's to be bad mistakes? McCoy has made terrible mistakes and he better learn from them or his HC career will be quick one. However any smart GM won't fire the guy he hired in his first seasons. Especially since this team isn't or hasn't been a playoff team for the last 3 years. You keep saying that Norv never had a bad day coaching, heck you even used the blasphemous line that Norv was actually a great coach. No Great Coach his teams beaten by Tim Tebow, and Matt Cassell for division wins. I vividly remember jumping of Norv bandwagon when he lost to a ****** Raiders team in 2010. Norv was a absolute joke as a coach and McCoy might be a bigger one but he gets to coach for the remainder of seasons and onto next season so you and Lance can shut your tvs you don't want to see McCoy as Charger head coach anymore.
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  4. ThunderHorse17
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    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

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    No, I was siting him as a example of a ring bearer that 3 weeks ago was looking like he could be given the boot.
  5. Burlington Bolt Brother
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    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    No
    Your google search instruction implies your faulty memory is what happened (that sproles was stopped 3 times inside the 10). But as your paste says, it was ONE carry leading to a field goal attempt. I couldn't find film of the drive but that means it was a third down call. Again, I'm not arguing play calling but you said "another perfect example" and gave yet another perfect load of steaming nonsense. Even though I'm not arguing play calling but rather "the dog ate my homework so I lost a roster spot" type stuff, it's sounding like you guys are making a great argument for Norv's superior play calling. Time to redirect that anger at McCoy a bit?
  6. ThunderHorse17
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    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

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    My perfect example was exaclty what I googled searched. Not sure why but im thinkin was a game that LT was injured and Sproles was doin the workload. We go the 1st down on the 9 yard line. First down Sproles up the gut for no gain or maybe it was 1-2 yards. Second play sproles to the outside left chased down behind LOS. third play Sproles again back to the gut. Stuffed. And if i remember right we tryed AGAIN on 4th down pass dropped in the EZ and that is purely on the coach and failing to utilize and put his players in the best positions/plays to win.

    That example was yet another becuase it wasnt what I was even looking for. BUT since im goin of a bad memory of a bad game from a bad time ago, I cant pin down what game it was. Maybe you can check the play by play game to game and find plenty of moments that we spent our chance at a TD pounding our heads against a wall to no avail.
  7. Burlington Bolt Brother
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    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    Hey, I'm not saying you did a bad job as if I could do better! I'll wait for you to give up but won't go chasing it myself....and again, these are just subjective things and not on the same plane as allowing the clock to run out before the half, instead of going for an 11 man punt block.
  8. ThunderHorse17
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    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

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    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/28/norv-turner-goes-out-meekly/

    Turner coached not to lose, just like Marty Schottenheimer before him. That inevitably led to a loss.

    Turner didn’t trust his veteran quarterback to try to make a few plays at the end of regulation to win the game before overtime. He was happy to let the clock sadly run out while the Chargers had the ball.

    We’re sure the offensive line appreciates Turner not giving them the chance in regulation. In overtime, the Chargers advanced the ball to Denver’s 35-yard line. The next three calls: Run, run, run for a total of zero yards.

    That set up Nick Novak’s 52-yard missed field goal.

    With his head coaching career on the line, Turner had many chances on Sunday to swing for the fences. He could let his team try to win instead of hoping it happened.

    Is that a example of a bad play call vs poor player play? Not that im trying to appease you or anything, jus killin time as my Tigers hold off Ol' Miss.
  9. Lance19
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    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    As I said a week ago, "I look forward to the creative contortions to come,
    that will explain how worse is better." :D I was not disappointed.

    Don't worry guys, I know the game…I'm just not high-brow enough to pretend it's not funny. :)



    Honestly, there's 6 reasons one could say they aren't concerned about the coaching so far in 2013:

    A) Know nothing whatsoever about pro football
    B) Just not be following the Chargers very closely this season
    C) Be lying your *** off
    D) Just so damned irrationally optimistic that you're still positive we're on track to finish 10-6
    E) You yelled so loudly that "Norv's killing us!!" that you'll defensively defend any crap this season
    F) All of the above
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013
  10. Burlington Bolt Brother
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    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    I don't know how many times I have to explain this. I am not Lance nor am I making his argument (a good one but difficult with confirmation bias at play). That is NOT what I'm talking about but these things...

    Screwing up the inactive roster and losing a roster spot for a game
    throwing an illegal challenge flag and losing a timeout
    letting the last 20 seconds run off instead of calling a TO to try a punt block (no danger and success=field goal)

    These are inarguable mess-ups I have never seen outside of Marty running onto the field and drawing a penalty. Do you see how these are different than coaching conservative or a player dropping a pass? And no, the ridicule for that goal line series with no power formation on the half yard line can't be called conservative or playing not to lose. But I'm not arguing that, only correcting people when they exaggerate their supposed Norv cases to compare with ABN's
  11. Burlington Bolt Brother
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    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    I'll take A,C and E, Bob
  12. Burlington Bolt Brother
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    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    it's not just overall talent but what people are ignoring is that at key spots, this team is better . Start with Woodhead
  13. HollywoodLeo
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    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

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    Better relative to what? Last year? perhaps. The competition around the league? Not at all.

    Besides, some dumb calls notwithstanding offense isn't really our problem. In spite of everything the Chargers still rank 7th in team offense in the league. (But I'll concede that some dumb decisions, particularly in the Red Zone, has kept that from being better.)

    It's the atrocious defense that would probably let Brady Quinn have a career day on them that's the biggest problem....and I'd say that side of the ball is not only worse off talent wise relative to the competition but ALSO to last year.
  14. Burlington Bolt Brother
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    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    Yes I agree with all this but just saying that last year was crap too (I get you get that)
  15. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    Then you must have missed everything that happened from 2007 to 2012, because Norv was infamous for his comically ****** 2 minute drills. It often looked like we never actually practiced such situations, delay of game penalties, letting the clock run and then calling a draw, false starts, receivers running the wrong route, and of course the inevitable sack on 3rd down and 9 were very common in the Norv version of "hurry up offense". I remember Norv would regularly challenge plays we had no hope of winning, and only a minimal benefit if we did.

    But I suppose once again you're exaggerating to suit your little agenda, because there is no way you can claim Norv NEVER made a mistake that cost us a game, that's just silly. McCoys mistakes are mostly clear amateur ones, ones he's highly unlikely to ever make again after embarrassing himself once.

    BTW that's the 3rd time you've said "I'm not Lance". It's getting harder to believe that by the day, straw man.;)
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
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  16. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Yeah, sorry, but 4th-and-2 from the 15. And please feel free to show proof where running Sproles at the opposing teams strongest run-defending ILB had yielded success in the past.

    I've given Norv plenty of credit where he deserved it in the past and heaped plenty of criticism where he deserved it as well. Feel free to view my post history if you have doubts. Your platitudes are just that. Norv continued to try and fit square pegs in round holes - i.e. run a vertical offense with less than the minimum amount of checkdown options (empty backfield on many 3rd and long's with the league's statistical bottom 3 OL in terms of pass-blocking - with absolutely no attempt to adapt his scheme to fit the personnel of the team. Both were/are conservative as hell coaches in terms of challenges, decisions, going-for-it, etc. as can be traced back to their respective coaching mentors.

    No one is calling for McCoy's head because we're less than a season deep into his first season as a HC. If you can't see the difference between that and Norv (not even his first season as a HC overall... with the Redskins, but even his first season as Chargers HC, where very few were calling for his head that weren't from the outset of his hire) then there's really no point in even trying to debate the topic with you as you're obviously operating from a close-minded bias that will be impossible to overcome or to get to view the argument impartially.
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  17. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    So you're moving goalposts rather than addressing the actual matter at hand, Lance? You're better that that and you know it. Norv was never a good HC. He was one who achieved a very good season once and a bunch of mediocre seasons (since we're restricting this discussion purely to his term with the Bolts) the rest of the time. Derek Anderson had one season that could be considered very good (he even earned a Pro Bowl accolade) that is surrounded by otherwise a ton of mediocrity. You're going to tell me that that one season of very good is a greater indicator of the man's ability than the rest the seasons that make up his sample size, as opposed to being a fluke?

    Quite frankly, McCoy is already more successful than 2012 Norv - who... sorry, is just as responsible for his team surrendering 4th and 25 for an eventual game-ending score as McCoy is for his team's failure to convert on the goal-line for a score against Washington.

    You're right, the question is "Is McCoy going to be more successful than 2012 Norv?... long term." If you, or anyone else, expected a rookie HC to come in and turn this team into a playoff team in a single season, you've been letting your homerism get the better of you. Because, statistically, the odds were heavily slanted against such happening. But see, that's why we don't limit the sample size on HC's to a single season. If that were the case the number of retread HC's who found success their first season and eventually gravitated back towards the mean (or below) over the long run of their tenure wouldn't be skewing the statistics either.

    Honest question, do believe that if Norv was running this team right now we'd have a better record and be in hotter pursuit for a playoff spot than we currently are? Because if you believe that, I question how objectively you watched Norv coach the past several years. He, and his staff which he refused to hold accountable or replace until well past when they'd hamstrung the club, show a horrible ability to adapt to injuries at any position aside from WR - and particularly proved to be ineffective when injuries started waylaying pass-rush and the secondary. Hell, if Norv was still coaching and we were starting the current OL alignment we'll start against KC tomorrow (much less the alignments we've relied on in some of the previous weeks), Rivers would stand a decent chance of being on the IR right now if not having a statistically similar season to what Eli is (who, coincidentally, has been suffering from the fact that his OL is giving up far more pressure than in recent years and can't run-block to save their lives - he's also currently leading the league in INT's and Pick-6's among QB's with more than 8 starts on the season).
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  18. Pointyearedog
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    Pointyearedog BoltTalker

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    Still breathing...
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  19. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    I'm sure someone's got a plastic bag and a roll of duct tape to fix that for you, if you'd like.
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