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Team needs as i see through the draft

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by charger1993, Jan 1, 2012.

  1. charger1993
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    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    1.Vontaze Burfict, Ilb, Arizona State...... but if we draft him i would like to move him to OLB
    2. Dontari Poe, DT, Memphis
    3. Matt McCants, OT, Uab
    4. Ladarius Green, TE, La- Louisiana
    5. B.J. Cunningham, WR, Michigan State
    6. Sean Catthouse, SS, California
    7. Emanuel Davis, CB, East Carolina
  2. gonzokrb
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    gonzokrb Well-Known Member

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    Other than Coaches and GM

    1) O-Line
    2) D-line
    3) DB's
    4) Fast WR
    5) Quinn Sharp K/P - OK State
  3. Buck Melanoma
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    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    First day we go BPA & that sure as hell won't be Burfict.

    Can you imagine the crap he's likely to cause in a clubhouse? No thanks.
  4. Mobius
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    Mobius BoltTalker

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    Resign VJ.

    Seems to me we don't have much of a pass rush. Hopefully that can be addressed through FA or draft. Probably could use another corner and some depth at O-line.

    Sent from my Epic Android using Tapatalk
  5. charger1993
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    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    i know burfict could cause alot of problems, but if we got a really good LB coach, and he could teach Burfict to keep his head on, he could be a very good OLB, But i wouldnt touch him at ILB
  6. Duffman57
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    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    I think that would be on the guys like Spikes/Phillips than on the coaches. I think if we could pair him up with Spikes, he could play with that same craziness that Spikes would play with early in his career (he still plays with it, but just doesn't have the athleticism he used to).

    And as for the Locker room stuff. Thats not a concern with Burfict. The guy's a complete class act off the field. I have a friend that was on the ASU team, up until last year, and i talked to someone on another forum who knew a LB on the team, and we both agreed that our friends said that Burfict is a really nice guy, and is REALLY quiet off the field, complete opposite as he is on the field. Basically my friend said that the last two years he stayed in his room and played madden and some other video games with some friends. Has never, or doesn't (i'm not sure which) drink or smoke, and rarely if ever parties.

    All we would have to worry about is the concerns on the field, and i think that letting him sit behind Spikes a year or two, and he's an elite LB by the time he hits the field IMO.
  7. Lance19
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    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Don't be so rough on Vontaze...nobody's burfict!
  8. Buck Melanoma
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    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Nice to have that inside info. Thanks.

    I love the kid's aggressive play, although I'm not at all sold that he's particularly adept at play recognition. Athleticism certainly makes up for a good bit of that on the college level. In the pros? All depends on how he receives instruction & if he's devoted to film study.

    Kuechly has BY FAR the better football IQ at this point in time. I think Philly will snag him.

    Something tells me that Perry could well be on our radar. I'm for going BPA in the 1st at the least, but who knows? Perry may end up grading out there.
  9. AnteaterCharger
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    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    1. OLB - must find some pass rushers, three down LBs
    2. OL - Depends on Gaither/Mcneil situation & Dielman, not to mention looking less likely a tackle will be available or DeCastro
    3. SS - One guy, maybe, Barron
    4. WR - Depends on if we resign Jackson, but could also see us replacing him with someone in FA like Meachem
  10. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    If we don't draft Winston Guy Jr. from Kentucky AJ Smith is the biggest idiot of all time..

    this kid is so underrated its not even funny, he will fall in the 3rd round so we can get the needs that we need in the first two, but certainly SS is a NEED.. and Guy will be a dominant safety in this game guranteed..

    heres the scouting report:
    that blew me away!! 120 tackles and 14 for a loss.. ridiculous.. DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT
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  11. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    That stat doesn't mean a ton other than that he's a finisher on his tackles (not saying that's a bad thing, but TFL's don't mean a ton for a safety if he's being constantly played up on the line like Joker Phillips did with Guy).

    Look, I like the guy (not as much as some other guys, though I do like his mentality and attitude) but we ask our safeties to do a lot more than just play the run (or god forbid blitz, Manusky you unemployed SOB!), so just judging his TFL's and tackles doesn't tell us enough. To go a little further in depth on him, he's not a traditional SS, but he's a quality dual-function safety (similar to Weddle in that respect); he's not a ballhawk, he's not a brick-layer, but he's a does a little bit of everything well and nothing fantastically.

    Honestly, if you're looking for a current player comparison, he reminds me a lot of former Oregon Duck, current Cleveland Brown TJ Ward with a bit less pop on his hits (he's more of what my DB coaches always referred to as "a doberman" in that he latches on and you can't shake him, he will eventually bring you down but he's not necessarily going to lay the big wood like a pitbull or rottweiler). I wouldn't say AJ would be "the biggest idiot of all time" to pass on him since there are a few comparable prospects to him this year, or ones that can have as much of an impact in our defense (also because I think Weddle is talented enough to play alongside an above-average paired safety and make the guy look better provided the guy doesn't get beaten deep badly; thus SS really should be a position we look to FA in some capacity for help even if for a stop-gap that's less brittle than Sanders was). But Guy is a good prospect who should definitely be given a look.

    And hey... Kentucky's not a 1-AA program, but AJ might think it is.
  12. AnteaterCharger
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    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Hopefully he's a better Kentucky safety product then the last one to join the Chargers - Marlon Mcree

    Spoke with Tom Krasovic on twitter he wonders if Gilchrist could be moved to safety opposite Weddle, not sure he's be a great addition there. I do like Guy and think the best pairing for Weddle would be someone like Mark Barron - he can cover in a short zone, he has some ball hawking ability, and can lay the wood on people good. Guy would definitely fit the bill in addition to not praying for him to fall to us in the second round. I know LBC your not a huge Barron fan but think he'd be a great addition to the secondary

    Now the advantage is that this is a very good class of safeties and corners in FA. Players include Laron Landry, Michael Griffin, Tyvon Branch & a guy I like in Tom Zikowski. It's even better with corners with players like Cortland Finnegan, Brandon Carr & Tracy Porter. We could definitely add a decent running mate for Weddle and someone to replace Cason in the backfield.

  13. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    It's not that I'm not a huge Barron fan, I just don't value him where some people seem to (as a 1st rounder). He's a 2nd-3rd round grade safety who can play the short zone just fine, but he struggles over the top. Basically, he's a better version of Oliver. I wouldn't invest a 1st round pick in a guy that's only a better version of Paul Oliver.

    The other thing with Barron that seriously worries me is something one of my buddies and I have come to call the John McCargo Factor. John McCargo, for those that don't remember, was selected 26th overall by the Bills in 2006 and proceeded to do exactly squat. The guy was a product of all the talent around him in the NC State defense, particularly his defensive linemates Mario Williams and Manny Lawson. I have the same concerns about Barron that I had about Christian Ballard last year, that I think his ability is being magnified and made to look better than he actually is by the talent around him.

    I'd also much prefer someone who I could trust further deep for us than I do Barron (I do NOT like him on jumpballs with taller receivers), like Markelle Martin (reminds me of a poor man's Nick Collins), George Iloka, or even a CB-to-S convert in Trumaine Johnson.
  14. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Guy lays some big hits though, I've seen some of his play, and I think he fits into what we work with, Weddle is the ball hawker and if we get Guy he is the blitzer, that eighth man in the box and a great tackler.. the same for Weddle, he's a great tackler as well.. I think those two together would compliment each other well..

    Guy isn't bad in coverage either.. I think he's an upgrade from Gregory and Oliver don't you think?

    And I'd rather use our money in FA looking for a pass rusher, I like Ahmad Brooks, Anthony Spencer, Jarret Johnson, D'Qwell Jackson, Manny Lawson, etc.. cause God knows we need one, cut ties with English; draft a middle linebacker to compliment Butler with in the future..
  15. Duffman57
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    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    Mouton and Spikes dont compliment Butler?????

    D'Qwell Jackson isn't a pass rusher. You should add Quentin Groves to that list. Though he's really raw, he's an incredible athlete and if we get him some work, he's gonna be good (was supposed to be the next DeMarcus Ware when coming out of college). I'd Prefer either him or Ahmad Brooks over the rest of the list. Those two have the highest potential as pass rushers. I have no interest in Lawson or Johnson TBH, both are pretty bad as pass rushers.
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  16. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Mouton will be good.. but he has shown early one already he might have trouble staying on the field, and Spikes will be a year older and his body might not be able to take the snaps, Diggs wasn't good enough even though he was a rotation player and we need some depth at that position, Butler, Spikes, Mouton, and a top ILB would be good to have and especially a guy like Jerry Franklin he will be an absolute beast in the NFL..

    I was thinking Groves, but haven't seen much of him... D'Qwell is an excellent tackler though..
  17. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    I have issues with anyone who craps out of the Raiders as a pass-rusher (which is basically all Al ever drafted front 7 guys to be good at), as I'm fairly certain Groves did (I could be wrong, he could have spent his whole time with Miami, but I'm pretty sure he did time... heh... yeah that fits... in the Bay). Anthony Spencer is just bleh... there's a reason the Cowboys would opt not to retain him when they really don't have any option better than Barnes-quality behind Spencer. Same with Jarrett Johnson - except he never could solidify himself in any one role. He's OK against the run, average-at-best as a pass-rusher, and pretty bad against the pass. Lawson would be a great guy to have if this was a year from now and we had some (unknown as of yet) stud weakside pass-rusher the likes of what Merriman used to be and we were trying to either replace or ease the load on Phillips.

    DQ is an interior guy, he's playing well in Ceveland in their 4-3, looked pretty overmatched in the 3-4 they ran, and he's only a year removed from some pretty gnarly surgery.

    There are very few safeties in this class I think can come in and start Day One... especially if they're asked to cover TE's as a large part of their duties. That's something that's going to take coaching and strength-training before they're ready for. Not saying they can't contribute, or eventually be quality starters but the top safety in this class doesn't even really have William Moore's, from two years ago, ceiling.
  18. FCBolt
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    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    SS and OLB need to be NFL-ready Week 1. It's not easy to draft a SS that's ready to go in his rookie year, which makes that position a key target in FA imo. Not sure how high the bidding war will go for Tyvon Branch, but he's a candidate. Also could try to trade for a guy like Yeremiah Bell who's in the last year of his contract. Probably cost us the dreaded 2nd rounder though. If you want to look at a partial reason for our depth problems, look at recent years where we were bereft of 2nd round picks.

    OLB has to be round 1. We're not going to get a stud OLB in FA, so unless Barnes and Phillips are our starters by Sept. 2013, OLB has to be it.

    If we play it BPA in round 1, we'll be left hanging at OLB again.

    I know that's a crazed apples in one cart strategy, but what else are we going to do at that position?
  19. Duffman57
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    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    Um, so he played the last 2 years at Oakland. And he never played for Miami (though he did play for that other Florida team in the AFC). But he was never actually used as a Rush LB... He was used as a DE in Jacksonville, under a coordinator who was horrible. But he isn't actually used to rush the passer AT ALL in Oakland, he's a regular 4-3 OLB (or i'm sure he does rush some, just not regularly). I think if we let him be a Rush LB here, i think he can be pretty good.

    By the way, that ENTIRE bolded part kinda confuses me...lol
  20. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Whenever Al drafted any DL or LB it was always for their pass-rushing prowess - hence why the Raiders were loaded with front seven players for years that couldn't defend the run to save their lives.

    Actually, rather than Groves who is raw (and raw coming from having worked with Mike Waufle - one of the premier DL coaches and the guy who coaches up Strahan, Osi, and Tuck in NY isn't a good thing at all), I'd much sooner take a flier on someone like Trevor Scott (remember when he used to abuse us?) who the Raiders moved from DE to WLB and was flourishing as a pass-rusher (and even showed some promise in coverage). Then he sort of fell off the map when Shaughnessy and to a lesser extent Lamar Houston broke out (also because they didn't have Kirk Morrison to defend the run as well as he used to for them).
  21. Duffman57
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    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    He never worked with Waufle. He's strictly a LB in Oakland, so i wouldn't think that he works consistently with the DL Coach. :/

    He's never really gotten a chance to be a 3-4 OLB like he should be, and is still one HELL of an athlete with great burst/explosion/whatever you want to call it, coming upfield. He's got more potential than Scott IMO, but i'm not too sure about Scott (dont really remember him TBH)
  22. FCBolt
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    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Mouton is going to need some coaching if he's going to be good. Seemed like he would miss gaps and angles at Mich. He can hit like a Peterbilt when he lines everything up right, it's just whether he lines up right.

    OLB in round 1. Looking forward to Senior Bowl week, but it seems like round 1 3-4 olb prospects are all going to be juniors (aside from Upshaw who will be gone by 18).
  23. The LBC
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    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Upshaw may well still be around by 18. The hype he's getting online, from what I hear, is not necessarily reciprocated by the actual scouts. He's got mid-to-low 1st round stock right now because he simply doesn't have the ceiling that prior prospects like Von Miller and Aldon Smith had. Assuming he has a good combine, which he should, Nick Perry likely gets drafted ahead of him as a 3-4 OLB, then comes the real question... because inside of the Top 15 (from everything I'm reading from guys who attend the Senior Bowl and Shrine games regularly and talk with pro scouts, so I trust their opinions) Upshaw is viewed as a reach. At #18 he might even be viewed by some as a reach, but given our need and recent woes and instability at the position it might be a justifiable one (because it would be only by about 2-3 picks or so).

    If we end up picking Upshaw at #18 I won't be disappointed or upset, unless we leave better value on the board. He doesn't have quite the gamebreaking ability when projected to the pro's that he has at the collegiate level, but he's got an incredibly high floor and would stand a great chance to be a Week 1 starter. What concerns me is he's a bit undersized for our need - we need a strongside guy, he's the size of a weakside rusher. So either we swap him and Phillips - which is doable - or we run with him being undersized and bite the bullet on run-defense until he has a chance to add on what bulk he can to his frame.

    Mouton has a future with this team, as to whether it's a starter's role or whether it's as a much larger (as in size, not role/priority) Siler-type player I can't be sure. And by Siler type player I mean 3rd, rotational ILB whose true value comes in on goal line packages and as a nickel LB. If we'd already taken an OLB in the 1st round and we had a chance to snag Oklahoma's Travis Lewis in the 2nd, I'll admit if I was making the picks I'd have a hard time passing on Lewis, because pairing him with Butler would have Top 2 league-wide ILB potential in 2-3 years and for many years to follow - it would hark back to the days of Ray Lewis and Bart Scott (except a bit more evenly divided in terms of talent between the two of them) and would certainly be the most talented pairing we'd have had since Donnie/Godfrey.
  24. ThunderHorse17
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    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

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    I like this guy as a later 3rd round pickup... Good #s compared to Barron, I just started lookin at Ss so I dont know everything about him but his first year starting he started and played in every game but 4. Was 3rd on the team.... i think or 4th. Oyea and he was moved to LB for half of 2010 and still played well there. Gotta love Dynamic players. Belicheck sure does anyway.

    3 Harrison Smith [​IMG] Notre Dame 6-2 215 4.55 3-4

    Draft Scout Snapshot: 2010: Started all 13 games in 2010 ... ranked second on the team 93 tackles, including one-half tackle for loss (1 yard) … led the team with seven interceptions (54 yards) and seven pass breakups ... ranked fourth in the FBS in interceptions per game (0.54) … made 13 tackles, registered a pair of pass breakups and collected an interception against Pittsburgh ... made six overall tackles, registered a pair of pass breakups and collected an interception deep in Irish territory with only 36 seconds remaining that clinched the victory over USC ... Registered school-record three interceptions in the first half alone in the Hyundai Sun Bowl victory over Miami (Fla.); selected by ESPN.com to its all-Bowl team. 2009: Started all 12 games, the first six at safety before moving to strongside linebacker for final six … ranked third on team with career-best 69 tackles and tied for third on Irish with six and a half tackles for loss … added four pass breakups and forced one fumble … recorded team-best 11 tackles at Michigan, including one and a half tackles for loss … led Irish with nine tackles at Pittsburgh, added one tackle for loss and one pass breakup. 2008: Played in all 13 games, started nine contests … ranked fourth on the team in tackles with 57 stops on the year, led the squad eight and a half tackles for a loss … tied for team-high honors in sacks with 3.5 and tallied second-most pass breakups with seven … took two fake punts for 58 yards during the year … registered seven tackles (five solos, two assists), a sack and two pass break-ups against Syracuse … credited with five tackles (all solos) and had two pass breakups in Hawai'I Bowl victory. 2007: Did not see the field as a reserve safety his freshman season.
  25. ThunderHorse17
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    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

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    Harrison Smith 2010 Sun Bowl


    Another Harrison vid, and Manti Te'o holy crap can we get this guy at ILB?? Havent looked at where hes ranked or projected but if its late I like takin the chance. HS highlights start at 2:55
  26. ThunderHorse17
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    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

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    Oh Manti is returning for his senior year. Maybe if there still a ILB hole next year.
  27. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    I was not aware Burfict has many problems off the field or with work ethic, his issues are just between the lines when he gets carried away.

    That said you are right, I think we could even get him with our 2nd round pick because he had such an underwhelming junior season. At that point it'd be hard to pass up on a guy with that kind of atheltic ability and the killer mentality the Chargers so lack..
  28. charger1993
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    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    thats what im screaming to man, i want manti
  29. charger1993
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    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    i agree with you for the most part, but the only reason i would want Burfict on the Chargers is for the fact that he is kind of a Shawne Merriman, He could potentially scare the offensive line, and rack up sacks if we moved him to OLB. Idk he would be a major reach because of his tenacity on the field, but think about if he could control that, he Could likely pass merriman sack numbers for the first 3 years, minus the juice
  30. Buck Melanoma
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    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Someone more in the know (Duffman, I believe?) shared some insight into his off-field demeanor & you're right- it doesn't sound like he has a problem there. It still concerns me of how much of a firm hand he'll need to keep himself in check. If he's immature, handing him an NFL paycheck could be like pouring gasoline on a fire. I'll leave that part up to the pros to assess.

    I wouldn't take him at 18 for sure. Not sold on his ability to read plays well enough to spend that pick on him. Yeah, if he's around at 50 then I'd be more prone to give him a hard look. With the exception of a couple of positions, I'm pretty sold on the idea of BPA at 18.

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