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The combined Marty angst thread.

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Boltdiehard, Oct 1, 2006.

  1. BFISA

    BFISA Well-Known Member

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    Me and ViewFromView22 were at the first Charger game at Balboa Stadium.
     
  2. Thread_Killer

    Thread_Killer Well-Known Member

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    I'm tired of you Marty defenders bringing up the mistakes by Dielman, Rivers, and Special Teams.

    The Ravens had MORE miscues than we did; a killer fumble in the red zone, two picks, and a dropped TD pass, among other things.

    That is more than a wash. We lost to an inferior team because Marty's scrotum contracted into his body with a freaking six point lead.
     
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  3. PhillyChargerFan

    PhillyChargerFan New Member

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    That is the problem, this is Marty's MO. If we're sick and tired of it imagine how the players feel :no:
     
  4. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man New Member

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    The team was prepared and in the position to win the game. The players failed to close escrow.

    When the head coach is screaming "make them bleed" and the players do not get it, then there is a "lack of heart"
     
  5. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man New Member

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    The players have to check themselves first before they look for scapegoats.

    That is a sign of a champion and not school girls giggling about who has coodies.
     
  6. Thunderstruck

    Thunderstruck BoltTalker

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    Exactly. I think the reason it seems like Chargers haven't been able to execute in crunch-time has been all about coaching. Marty put us in a position where 1 or 2 mistakes could cost us the game.

    Repeat: MARTY put us in the position where only by playing near-flawless football could we win.

    Why did the Ravens get away with so many mistakes? Because we weren't making them PAY for their mistakes. And the reason we weren't making them PAY is that we STOPPED attacking!

    They knew we'd stopped attacking which made them even MORE aggressive. If you're 100 feet behind in a marathon with a quarter-mile left, and you see the leader ahead of you walking, you're going to run as hard as you can to catch up. But if the leader's ahead of you and still running hard, you're not going to be able to find that well of energy.
     
  7. Thunderstruck

    Thunderstruck BoltTalker

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    The sign of a championship coach is that he doesn't put the shackles on his players with 30 minutes of football remaining. Marty's a ****, and his lack of confidence carries over to the players. His whole attitude is, "Man, I don't know how we're beating this team, but we better get the hell outta Dodge as soon as possible."
     
  8. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man New Member

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    I saw the replay of the game last night and our gameplan was deadnuts sound as hell. The players failed to get it done plain and simple.

    There was one bad call I saw offensively and it was to lateral to LT. The rushing game was killing the Ravens. Our series of errors were not caused by the coaches but were caused by the players.

    Culpability is not soley the head coaches here and the players need to be held accountable.

    When I saw the replay of the missed pass from Rivers to Jackson which would have been a TD on a slant play, I cringed. Sure Mason dropped one and he was wide open as well but at some point the players need to take inventory before the witch hunt begins.
     
  9. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man New Member

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    The Chargers were relentless in the ground formations which nobody cares to admit.

    In the third quater, the Ravens had to call a timeout because of our offensive run formations. The reason they called a timeout was because our TE was lined up at tackle. :yes:

    On another play, the defense was stimied when Shane Olivea went to a jumbo left side package and we ran for killer yardage. We made their defense looked like buffoons by our motion and alignment packages and it was working well into the second half. The defense was confused.

    The fake reverses opened up the backside running lanes all day long. That was the greatest psych job that Cam ran yet no one acknowledges it which let us torch and shread the Number One rush defense to ****.

    Oh and Marty did not tell Uncle Wade to rush three on the last play as well where Merriman fails to wrap up.

    This one falls squarely on the shoulders of the PLAYERS.

    I do not buy this Marty witch hunt which seems to be en vogue now or then.

    It is almost like everyone is rushing out to buy bell bottoms because they are back in style.
     
  10. Bored At Work

    Bored At Work BoltTalker

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    You know, I think I agree with you completely on everything you wrote there. Except the part about being there for the very first game. I'm just not that old.
     
  11. Bored At Work

    Bored At Work BoltTalker

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    There were key mistakes at the end by the Chargers. And that definitely led to the loss. But since Marty teams have 20+ years of failing in the clutch, how much of that is attributed to having the coach clench up? His attitude rubs off on the team. Players start to get tight and make mistakes. Instead of playing aggressive, they get passive. Stupid **** starts happening.

    Either that or God hates him. How else do you explain 20+ yrs of playoff losses and strange 4th quarter collapses?
     
  12. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man New Member

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    Marv Levy is a good parallel here.

    Dude goes to all those Super Bowl with the Bills and gets worked yet he sucks or is a choke artist or insert whatever diss you want ?

    When Marty is screaming "make them bleed" do you think he means pulling an Albert Haynesworth by stomping someones melon ? Its not too early to go to that card is it? :icon_shrug:
     
  13. Thunderstruck

    Thunderstruck BoltTalker

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    Actually, I'm very happy we were able to run against the Ravens. But it only was effective for so long and then it wasn't effective any more. And you know why. Because the Ravens eventually figured out we ONLY run from those formations.

    I was stoked with the fact we started grinding out yards on the ground at the start of the second-half, but 7 straight runs? We need to be able to throw out of those same formations or they're not going to be effective very long. And the success we were having with the rush proves exactly what I've been saying... play-action should be a weapon for us, but a bullet can't kill anyone from inside the clip. You have to pull the trigger--and more than just a couple times on plays with a low-chance of success.

    You're also ignoring the concept of a QB getting out of rhythm by going long stretches without throwing the football. ALL great QB's talk about offensive rhythm, and how it's hard to re-start an offense after you've gone into "eat-clock" mode.

    And finally, the running game is great when you have a realistic chance of getting a first down with it. But on 1st-and-25 we RUN twice to set up 3rd-and-18? On third and 7 we RUN? On 1st-and-20 we RUN three times and punt?

    THAT'S the problem I have with how this game was coached. In the second half we went into "please don't beat us" mode. We gave the Ravens 5 opportunities to take the lead and they finally took advantage of one of them.
     
  14. PhillyChargerFan

    PhillyChargerFan New Member

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    But at least Levy got them to the Bowl!!!!
     
  15. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man New Member

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    The Ravens NEVER stopped us from being effective because we were still moving the ball and getting into situations where we could score and even in the second half. The plan was WORKING so why deviate ? Hindsight is always 20/20 but even reviewing the game later, it was a great game plan which shreaded the number one rushing defense. The fact we dominated the stats further reinforces the game planning was sound. There is no culpability on coaching here.

    Cromartie was even inserted in the return game for a 16 yard return and we were in firm control at that point yet no one sees this adjustment being made to get more aggressive ? Nada. Why ?

    I saw Cro go in and I am thinking "cool here comes more heat" yet everyone seems to think we just "gave up".

    Losing stings and especially losing a game we had dominated and should have won but the facts remain, the players play the game and they were prepared.
     
  16. Bored At Work

    Bored At Work BoltTalker

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    Exactly. I loved that we ran on them. You know what running does?

    It opens up the passing game for PA. Yes, play-action passing. I think this concept was developed back in the 50's, maybe earlier. I think it has been around for a few years. Maybe we should try that, would be an interesting experiment, and so cutting-edge.

    I've never played QB, other than playing with friends. But every time I watch a football game on TV, you hear about a QB getting in a 'rhythm'. I've heard this perhaps 10,000 times over the yrs. This 'rhythm' thing seems to be important. Apparently QB's find it is easier to throw when they don't go through long stretches of not throwing the ball. Who knew?

    They did, however, pull the novel concept of not passing when expected. Most teams pass in third and long situations, but they bucked that trend last game. Why do what everyone does, Chargers do their own thing. 3rd and 18, 3rd and 7? RUN.
    1st and 10 RUN
    2nd and 8 RUN
    3rd and 7 .... why stop a good thing, let's run again.
     
  17. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man New Member

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    Yeah but he is tabbed a choke artist - loser - never was able to win the big one. Dude it is the same ****.
     
  18. PhillyChargerFan

    PhillyChargerFan New Member

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    Not by me. Hey, at least Levy could get out of the playoffs.
     
  19. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man New Member

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    It goes back to the old tried and true cliche:

    You have to run the ball:

    http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-RUSHING/2006/regular?sort_col_1=7

    &

    You have to stop the run:

    http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-RUSHING/2006/regular?sort_col_1=4
     
  20. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man New Member

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  21. Bored At Work

    Bored At Work BoltTalker

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    We all know what happened in the Giant game. In fact, I wish Parcells had lost that game, since he basically pulled off the only incident of Martyball ever being successful.

    I don't remember what the Redskins did to them, but I'm fairly sure it wasn't pretty.

    The Cowboys teams of the early 90's were stacked. That is when they were just coming into their prime, and the salary cap wasn't in effect yet. The Bills were just out talented in that game. In fact, until the Salary cap came into effect, it was only the NFC winning.

    As Charger fans, we should be very aware of how strong the NFC was in those days. There is a memory from Jan 28 95 that I think I've suppressed. Either that or I couldn't see clearly through the tears. Whatever.

    To bring up those Bills teams isn't really fair.
     
  22. PhillyChargerFan

    PhillyChargerFan New Member

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  23. Bored At Work

    Bored At Work BoltTalker

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    Yeah, we did both.

    And lost.

    That doesn't upset you?

    And we won the turnover battle.

    None of this pisses you off? None of this frustrates the hell out of you?

    It frustrates the f..k out of me. And you know what else f..king kills me? The fact that I'm going to see this same f...ing **** played out 3+ more times this year.

    That is the **** that really kills me.
     
  24. Thunderstruck

    Thunderstruck BoltTalker

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    We had 2 scoring opportunities in the second-half. On the first, we settled for a FG attempt which Nate missed.

    The second opportunity we had in the second-half was set up by Donnie's pick. After we got into 1st-and-25, we ran the ball twice. Why no screen? Why no swing to the RB on the flats? We couldn't get more than 7 yards to put PR into a difficult 3rd-and-18?

    Look at this lovely sequence:

    Code:
    1-10-SD3	(4:42) L.Neal to SD 5 for 2 yards (J.Bannan). FUMBLES (J.Bannan), touched at SD 5, recovered by SD-A.Gates at SD 2. A.Gates to SD 6 for 4 yards (C.McAlister).
    2-7-SD6	(4:28) (No Huddle) L.Neal left guard to SD 10 for 4 yards.
    3-3-SD10	(4:04) (No Huddle) P.Rivers pass short right to L.Neal to SD 28 for 18 yards.
    1-10-SD28	(3:15) (No Huddle) L.Tomlinson right guard to SD 28 for no gain.
    PENALTY on SD-K.Dielman, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at SD 28 - No Play.
    1-20-SD18	(2:49) (No Huddle) L.Tomlinson left guard to SD 20 for 2 yards (R.Lewis, B.Scott).
    2-18-SD20	(2:02) (No Huddle) L.Tomlinson right tackle to SD 26 for 6 yards (K.Gregg).
    3-12-SD26	(1:18) (No Huddle) L.Tomlinson left guard to SD 29 for 3 yards (B.Scott).
    4-9-SD29	(:44) M.Scifres punts 46 yards to BLT 25, Center-D.Binn, downed by SD.
    Dielman gets a penalty to put us in 1st-and-20. What do we do? Run THREE STRAIGHT TIMES and punt??? What kind of wuzzy playcalling is that?

    We moved the ball on the very first drive until we got into range where we could threated the red-zone, and then the Ravens stopped us. Would've been nice to see a couple passes once we crossed mid-field, especially since we'd picked up good yards on 5 straight runs.

    The fact that we dominated the stats means nothing without the "W." What kind of logic is that Trumpy? We rushed for a 150 yards so we shouldn't be ticked with the loss? We only threw for 105 yards while the game was still within reach, and that's pathetic.

    The game-planning was sound, but the game-management was crap. Why do you stop doing what's working? We built our lead in the first half by being balanced. We stopped being balanced and scored 0 points thereafter.

    Who cares? He looked like crap on that return. And no, we weren't in firm control at that point. We were down by 3 with about 39 seconds remaining, and the crap field-position his return gave us hampered any real chance we had to move into scoring position with no timeouts.

    Why do you assume Cro's a great kick-returner? And, amazingly, we got aggressive again AFTER we gave up the lead.

    The coaches also coach the game, and they made the decision to try to nurse the team across the finish line.
     
  25. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man New Member

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    Granted the Collective Bargaining Agreement or the CBA changed the landscape of the NFL but do you really think Scott Norwood (the Bills kicker who missed the winning SB FG) will hide behind the CBA as an excuse as well as Marv Levy ? Please. It is a fair analogy.

    This is not comparing the passing game to yester-year when stick'em was allowed or forearm shivers. Those comparisons lose perspective due to rule changes.

    I do not feel it is a stretch to make this comparison regardless of era.
     
  26. Thunderstruck

    Thunderstruck BoltTalker

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    And if you accomplish both those things and STILL lose, you have to ask yourself how we are somehow bukcing the trend. And then you remember the axiom: "You have to be able to throw in the modern NFL." You know who said that, right?

    Marty Schottenheimer.

    I guess he forgot his own advice.
     
  27. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man New Member

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    Lets turn this around....

    If you asked a Offensive lineman which one he thinks as being aggressive or OFFENSIVE versus DEFENSIVE, which one of the following do you think he choses:

    A. Pass Blocking
    B. Run Blocking

    It is a matter of perspective young jedi master !!! :bolt: :icon_banana:
     
  28. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man New Member

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    In all of this rant I see no accountability to the players. None. Zero. Nada.

    The stats showed we dominated yet you refuse to acknowledge it was the mistakes caused by the players which lost the game.

    The only solution is for this team to score 40+ point to make you and everyone happy it would seem and guess what, it does not always happens.

    .........Nor does the fact we run no-huddle for an entire game or 50/50 football games.

    This also means teams will need to learn to close out the close games and if they do not learn to do it while dominating the stats, then a huevo check of the players is in order and not the coaching.

    If the team was accused of appearing unprepared, then that is a different ball game yet no one has mentioned this fact.

    I see serious discrepancies in most theories presented. They have zero basis for the most part.
     
  29. Bored At Work

    Bored At Work BoltTalker

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    I just wanted to quote Shamrock again. I think he hits it all right on the head.

    We all want Marty to be successful. We all would love to be wrong about 'Martyball'. We'd all love to see him finally get that Superbowl ring. I think we all have a vested interest in this.

    The problem is, most of us don't have confidence in him to make the requisite gameplan adjustments to allow this to happen. This is why we're frustrated.

    If you have faith in him, and you think this style will work, then I hope you're right. We all hope you're right. But those of us that have been paying attention just don't see any evidence of this ever happening.
     

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