Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Concudan, Nov 12, 2012.
Here's one...Bruce Arians. Done yeomans work with Indy while Chuck Pagano has been treated for cancer.
If Pagano makes a full comeback I'd have to think Arians would be a strong candidate to get a head coach gig. He had a great run in PIT as OC as well.
Wonder how he would ever be able to get out of Indy or be allowed to get out of there considering what he means to that organization
It will be someone who nobody expects......Mike Tomlin or BB or if AJ get canned too, make way for the return of Marty
Out of Chip Kelly and the rest, David Shaw would actually be my current "most likely to actually work out" selection - but like you, dunno if he is ready to leave Stanford quite yet.
Here's an honest question for people, because it's such a subjective term I see just arbitrarily thrown around.
I always see people say that the coach they want hired is a "proven winner," but what exactly proves to you that they're a winner? Does producing highly competitive teams that amassed successful records but never translated that into a Super Bowl win or appearance count? Is a Super Bowl ring a requirement? (seems kind of dumb to limit your talent pool that greatly, particularly when no HC in the modern era has won a Super Bowl with two different clubs) Is winning in spite of lesser talent on his previous team a factor?
Literally flesh this out. Because I get the feeling that too many people are pining for some pipe dream HC that either doesn't exist or simply isn't an option (because he's already employed as a HC by someone else), and in many cases they're refusing to see the forest for the trees.
Evidence of innovative, rather than derivative coaching
Evidence of overcoming adversity (Harbaugh made SDSU a quality football team. He made Stanford a force again)
Evidence of success adapting to challenges
Evidence of successful game management / in-game adjustments
I place no emphasis on "achievement", i.e. Championships. I want to see how the coach's team plays, and how the coach manages the game. How do the players look? I'd take a HC who takes mediocre talent to an 8-4/7-5 college record while looking good doing so over a HC who takes exceptional talent to an 11-1 record.
If we're picking a coordinator from the NFL, I think that all four factors are the same. Also, can I call his plays? Probably the most frustrating thing about Norv is that I can tell what the Chargers are going to do, and if I can do that, so can opposing coordinators. I would like a HC who brings an air of mystery and surprise to the playcalling. Not "I can't believe they just did that, idiots" surprise, but "wow, what a perfect playcall, I didn't see that coming" surprise.
I want Chuckie or Cowher. I want a mean, take no bullshit type of coach. I'll be happy with anyone not a OC or a dumb college coach that rarely hits big.
If our new coach is a current Offensive Coordinator the only name that even comes to mind is Bruce Arians, he seems to be doing a pretty good job as the interim HC and OC in Indy, plus he was the coordinator for two Pittsburgh SB teams. Plus we could probably keep Pagano as DC since he seems to have a pretty good repartee with his brother over in Indy.
From the Defensive Coordinator side of things Zimmer(Bengals), Bradley(Seahawks), and Fewell(Giants) are all guys who lead lights out defenses that are about due for their shot to take the reins of a whole team. Bradley especially since he seems to have a speciality for developing/coaching secondaries and let's face it that's been our weakness the last few years.
Chuckie = handed a pretty damn good team and got to play a dream opponent, a team he had just coached. Knew their playbook and his defense was calling out the Raiders plays during the game. Would he have won that Super Bowl against anyone else, who knows? Team rapidly declined, he got canned.
Cowher = Basically Marty, fans screaming for his head for several seasons. Finally won when the refs gift wrapped a Super Bowl for him against the Seahawks.
Not too excited about either of these guys.
OK, an odd name to throw out there to some maybe. Though I think it makes sense from Dean's perspective, in that he won't break the bank, and though I realize some people are going to immediately want to dismiss him... what about Eric Mangini?
The guy has yet to get a fair shake while a HC, and in both instances was fired without much of a justifiable reason. In New York he had "Grandfather Time" Brett Favre shoved down his throat by Woody Johnson and Mike Tannebaum, after managing to get that team to the playoffs consistently and even win there with Chad Pennington and a middling defense. In Cleveland, he had them on the upswing before overzealous ownership decided to hire Mike Holmgren as "Football Czar" and cut Mangini's legs out from under him. For all that people want to praise Gruden for his ability to break down game strategy, stop and listen to Mangini analze play, the guy gets it. Thus far, he's the only Belichick discipline to find any kind of success as well. His first year in New York, he took a team that was one year removed from going 4-12 under Herm Edward to a 10-6 record... and a road win over us in the playoffs (Thanks a lot, Nate!). This is a guy who was fired because his 9-7 team (who really only faded because the infirm QB that the owner pushed upon him, didn't have it in him to hold up a full season and faded down the stretch) didn't make the playoffs due to tiebreakers.
I'm just trying to think outside the box This is an intelligent coach whose gotten a bit of a raw deal in the past. Hell, he's even got that chafing personality that some people here seem so insistent that our next HC have (though by and large it's been proven in the modern era that it takes more than just being a hard-nosed disciplinarian to get players to buy in and produce - Mike Singletary was a hard-nosed disciplinarian, but he was a God awful head coach).
I'd be very intrigued if we did hire Mangini- people do forget that he had Favre shoved down his throat in NY and he really wasn't going to be able to turn Cleveland around in 5yrs let alone one season
Whoever the coach will be, it will be someone that has no power.
What coach is going to want to have daddy's boy running player personnel and not get a say in what player is drafted?
You can forget about a Gruden, Cowher, or Reid.
Who says they're going to have no say in what player is drafted? Despite the fact that so many were wholesale selling that AJ was the be-all/end-all of draft room decision-making Norv's input was heavily considered in the war room, as was Marty's (it was widely known that he did more than just sign off on Rivers, he lobbied for him), as did Charlie Joiner (the Vincent Brown drafting, even at a position considered slightly premature by some folks).
Let me rephrase... I meant final say. Those guys want to shop for the groceries. They can give their input but final say would go to baby Spanos. No way a strong minded coach is going to put themselves in that situation.
Based on this line of reasoning(which I think is pretty sound) what would everyone think of Chris Peterson(Head Coach of Boise State)? I've looked through this entire thread and don't see any mention of him anywhere. He's definitely taken a historically unsuccessful and overlooked team and made it a force that doesn't look out of place playing against anyone in the NCAA.
He gets the most out of the players he's given, just by it's nature Boise isn't a premier recruitment destination but he's definitely coached some quality players( Doug Martin, Ryan Clady,Quintin Mikell,etc). He was even able to control Titus Young, something that the entire Detroit Lions organization can't seem to do.
He's managed games well enough to have a .912 win percentage, which is difficult no matter what division you're playing in. We've all seen that he has the capacity to draw up that game-winning out of nowhere play (Fiesta Bowl). Best of all he's only making 2 million per year right now, I'm sure even Deano wouldn't mind giving him a raise to bring him here.
In my mind if AJ is out then it will come down to his replacement to hire the next HC and not knowing who that is makes it difficult to even think of. I'd pick a defensive minded HC that way he'd have to rely on a true offensive coordinator to run that side of the ball.
I like Pag's and wouldn't mind seeing him promoted and somehow feel as though he could be our coach Noll that got away. Noll was left to leave and turned that Stiller organization around and a few other Bolt coaches have done the same thing, Madden, Gibbs, even Al Davis. It's time this organization stop feed the NFL with greatness and keep it all in the family, even if their last name is Spanos. It worked for the Rooney's no reason it can't work here home of the most successful coaches to win Super Bowls, they just did it in other cities.
I'd be ok with a defense oriented HC but we'd need a really amazing OC. At this point, I think our offense needs a lot more work than our defense does.
1. Bruce Arians
2. David Shaw
3. Jay Gruden
4. John Gruden
5. Chip Kelly
I'd take either #1 or 2 and hope they retain Pag's but I still hate to lose him down the line.
If we lose Pagano then my top choice for DC would be Rivera followed very closely by Ryan. Both I think might be fired and both I think would be a great addition to a young D full of talent and swag.
I wouldn't want Rivera back as DC, I wasn't impressed by his work here during his last stint. Ryan would be interesting as the DC but my first choice would be Keith butler especially if Pags got the nod as HC.
Cam Cameron just got axed
Keith Butler isn't leaving Pittsburgh unless it's for a HC'ing gig. He's effectively Tomlin's right-hand man, and is the tabbed successor to Dick Lebeau as DC for the Steelers. He's already turned down coordinator positions in the past (and ones that would have had him working with former Steelers staff-members), so unless he get an offer for "the big job," I highly doubt he's a realistic candidate.
If this collapse by Arizona gets Whisenhunt canned and Ray Horton isn't made their new HC, he's a viable DC candidate. Jim Tomsula, the DL coach in San Fran, is another guy long overdue for a promotion who has 3-4 familiarity and a solid coaching-pedigree.
Top coaching candidates..
1. David Shaw - What this guy has done at Stanford speaks for itself. Learned under Harbaugh, came in and didn't miss a beat. He set records as a coordinator. Helped the development of Andrew Luck, developed Toby Gerhart's game as well, and he has had stints in the NFL as QB's/WR's/RB's coach as well. An impressive, low scoring win against Oregon this year is giving him buzz. His teams play smart, physical football. He's an offensive guy as well, so it's not like he doesn't know how to play-call. San Diego is also his hometown.
2. Jon Gruden - I don't care if he won with a team that Dungy built. He built a Raiders team that they faced in the Super Bowl as well. He still got his team to the big dance, and won it. He had an impressive 2 seasons at Oakland in which his teams got screwed over twice, and lost to the eventual Super Bowl winners. He made Oakland relevant again. He puts together a great staff as well. I'm sure his brother, Jay Gruden, would join him, so that's a plus.
3. Rich Bisaccia - Special Team coaches have done wonders in the league before. John Harbaugh, Bill Belicheck, etc. Coaches have been speaking highly of Bisaccia recently. And you see the improvement with this ST's unit. 2 blocked punts was a glitch, but it was corrected. Has a team scored a ST's TD against us? I don't believe so since he's taken over. He's assistant coach as well this year. So I'm sure he has familiarity on how to call plays on both sides of the ball.
4. Chip Kelly - Now I've heard great things. And I've heard, some so-so stuff as well. Obviously, if Chip is here he won't run the option. But, I've heard he does a great job at executing his team's strengths. He works with what he has. But, I've also heard he has a great football mind. A genius on the offensive side (And no, not Norval 'genius'). But not all college coaches have success in the NFL.
If one of the four of these guys become our HC, I'll be happy. But then again, depends who the GM is. Hopefully it is Jimmy Raye.. Cause I think he will turn to a college coach (ex. Shaw, Kelly)
I just hope guys like Pagano, Bisaccia, and Joiner are retained. The rest, I could care less.
If I were a betting man I'd say this is what Dean will do.
(Pokes head out of office)
"Hey Jimmy and Rich congratulations! you both have been promoted"
(goes back to playing solitaire on this computer)
If I was a billionaire, I'd have an assistant who I would tell which cards to click while I lounged on a giant recliner and drank scotch.
I hear Norv may be looking for a job next year
Keith Butler as HC and Pags as DC/AHC and I'd give Joiner the first right of refusal at OC. This is what I would do but dean should give it some serious thought.
Separate names with a comma.