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These are your choices

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by MasterOfPuppets, Apr 12, 2013.

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Which of these round 1 and 2 combos would you prefer?

  1. Lane Johnson, Larry Warford

    63.2%
  2. Chance Warmack, Terron Armstead

    15.8%
  3. Chance Warmack, Menelik Watson

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Jonathan Cooper, Terron Armstead

    5.3%
  5. Jonathan Cooper, Menelik Watson

    5.3%
  6. Other

    10.5%
  1. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Again he dominated over the center at 311. He'll gain weight in an NFL strength and conditioning program if he isn't already. Utah had him listed at 320 prior to the start of the season. If anything this helps with his versatility. He's strong enough to play NT at the NFL level in a 3-4. Thats all that really matters.

    Ziggy Hood plays over the center at times for Pittsburgh, he's 300 pounds. Some members of the Super Bowl winning Baltimore Ravens, Arthur Jones, Pernell McPhee, etc all under 320 played over the center at times for Baltimore too.

    Its not unheard of, if your strong enough to play the position, he'll only get stronger to dominate it.

    Even if we do go OL the first 2 picks, there will be growing pains. Philip Rivers won't have a clean pocket every snap.

    I think the OL will be significantly improved whether we draft heavy there or not, we have significant improvement in a coaching staff, and seems to be a better game plan that will be installed by Mike McCoy and his staff, who will work around his players and their strengths.
  2. SuperCharger92
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    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Who said he has more upside though? The media? Cause they're always right about everything draft related.

    Terron Armstead has started 37 games on the offensive line. There is no detailed information where he played prior years, but in 2012 he played 12 games at LOT.

    But, funny fact, we drafted Courtney Van Burne in the 3rd round out of.... Arkansas Pine Bluff [insert comparison here]....
  3. DenverBolt67
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    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Playing over the center at times and playing there all the time, which he would need to do in order to justify drafting him, are totally different things.

    Taking a guy who will rarely play at DE who can only play over center "at times" is an utter water of a draft pick

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
  4. SuperCharger92
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    Means we address our needs at NT and ILB with prospects a top of their positional rankings, while getting a guy who is proven to play LOT at the NFL level, while not reaching on a guy in the 1st round and only giving up a 3rd or 4th rounder.
  5. SuperCharger92
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    LOL.

    You were acting like play over the center has never been done before at Lotulelei's weight. I was just proving that players can play there.

    Again, Star Lotulelei can play over the center all the time. He only needs 9 pounds to be labeled as a "true NT".
  6. DenverBolt67
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    I was pointing out how ridiculous it was to compare him to a guy who is 30lbs heavier and 2" shorter. That is a huge difference to try and compare them.

    As for Star, as I said previously, I have no idea if he can play full time NT, but if not, then drafting him would be a stupid move. And even if he can, we have huge needs on the offensive side of the ball. We were able to fill the need at NT last year with a guy who was nothing more than just a body at the time he was signed. We could and should do the same thing this year while using the draft to fill holes that are not as easy to fill

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
  7. Riff Raff
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    Oh I'm sorry ... I suppose the smiley here at the end of your statement is meant to be you thoughtfully assessing your response?


    Terron Armstead was recruited by larger FBS schools due to his ability. he made a different choice, The athleticism that these recruiters saw in him was, IMO, shown in his limited performance during Senior Bowl week & the combine. I don't see Lane Johnson, with is limited reps at LT, as any more NFL-ready than Armstead. Do I believe Johnson will succeed? Yes. Would I take him at 11 if available? Most likely - provided Fisher & Joeckel are gone? Do I see him as the likely BPA at 11? Most likely not - but we have a need.

    You may not see yourself as a condescending prig, but you certainly can come across that way.
  8. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    The previous post was me trying to be ironic, regardless of the fact that they may have the same physical talent they sure didn't have the same coaching, much less play against the same caliber of players. It is common sense to assume the growing pains will be worse stepping up from what amounts to a D-3 school.

    I'm not trying to be condescending, just explain why everyone has good large gap between Johnson and Armstead. It's not like you're the only one that knows Armstead was recruited by bigger schools or that Johnson was moved across the formation from time to time.
  9. Boltjolt
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    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    So 320 is the official label for a true NT? I do go to a few different Charger forums and could be wrong but arent you the guy a month or two ago who kept saying we need a NT to be in the 350 lb area to be effective and thats what you wanted us to get?

    I very well could be wrong and it was someone else.
  10. SuperCharger92
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    Nope.

    But I'd say so, you don't have to be 320, but that's where most nose tackles play around. Antonio Garay, Domato Peko (plays in 4-3, but plays over the center), Sione Pouha, Casey Hampton, and even Aubrayo Franklin, who played very effectively for us was only 317 and others.

    Somebody suggested a rotational guy that was 350+ and I said he had to get his weight down significantly (the prospect they were suggesting was in the 360's).
  11. SuperCharger92
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    2 inches and 27 pounds isn't a big deal at all. If you watch tape on both players they played very similarly against similar competition, that's how their similar. The measurements may be a little off, but the the work out numbers are very similar once again.

    Results: Ngata -- Lotulelei
    Bench: 37 -- 38
    Vertical : 31.5 -- 30
    3 cone: 7.97 -- 7.76
    20 yd shuttle: 4.69 -- 4.65
    40 yd dash: 5.13 -- 5.31

    But last year we got lucky with Aubrayo Franklin. He had a dreadful 2011 with the Saints under Gregg Williams, and he wasn't getting much attention in Free Agency, we signed him in July to play NT and he played great.
  12. DenverBolt67
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    2" shorter and 27lbs heavier is a huge difference. Again, I am not saying Star can't play NT, I am saying it is ridiculous to compare 2 players that are so different physically. You wanna compare him to Jay Ratliff who has played NT for the Cowboys for several year, and played pretty well (Up until last year), at 303lbs, fine. Or even to Jamal Williams who came into the NFL at around 310 if I remember right.

    But there is a huge physical difference between Star and Ngata, even when Ngata came into the NFL
  13. Bolts4lyfe
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    The Sideline View's Lance Zierlein tweeted there will be teams trading into the top 10 to target an offensive tackle.
    "That almost feels like a lock," Zierlein added. He also mentioned that DJ Fluker will go higher than many expect. We think there's a chance Fluker is selected at pick No. 11 by the Chargers, but trades can obviously change everything. These tackles will fly off the board.


    I know it Won't/Can't happen but I'd expect Telesco to quickly hand in his resignation if he took Fluker at 11.
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  14. Ikeman83
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    I just want to talk for a second about how wildly different 2 inches is when you're talking about 30 lbs.

    Ngata, at 74" and 340 lbs weighs 4.59 lbs/inch. Star at 76" and 310 lbs comes in at 4.07 lbs/inch. As far as talking about Star being able to just "bulk up" another 30 lbs, I have to wonder if you lift. I mean, legitimately, do you lift weights? If he puts on 30 lbs in a time period less than 2 years, it's going to be at least 50% fat, if he can put it on at all. Building lean muscle mass without the use of steroids, hgh, and insulin is incredibly difficult, especially once you start getting over 225-250 lbs.

    Look at Ngata:
    [​IMG]

    He's in the 20-25% range, so he already weighs more and has lower body fat than Star. Star is at least 4 years of natural lifting behind Ngata, and even then, he'd still have to overcome his 25-30% body fat, which would go up while he was running a caloric surplus.

    I mean, if you want to say that Star can get fatter or weigh more, I'll believe it, but don't conjecture that he's going to add 30 lbs or anything close to that of muscle upon entering an NFL lifting program.
  15. Bolts4lyfe
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    To be fair, in the comparisons department, they both have beards.

    There is no doubt that Star is a good player, but to say he is remotely close to the level Ngata was coming out of college is absurd. If so teams would be leaping at each other to take that kind of talent.

    I believe Jay-Z said it best "Don't compare me to NObody ... I rather not be mentioned ... I'm offended"
  16. SuperCharger92
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    Everyone had him going number 1 overall a few months ago, prior to the heart condition.

    There pretty similar, I wouldn't say there exactly the same type of player, I'm simply saying, both of them have qualities in their game that are very similar.

    Haloti Ngata went 12th overall as well.

    Also, I am not saying Star Lotulelei needs to gain 30 pounds at all. He simply needs 9 pounds, which he can easily gain in an NFL strength and conditioning program. He actually lost weight in preparation for the combine in order to improve his speed in drills.
  17. Ikeman83
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    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    He lost fat. If you think it's going to be easy for him to put on 9 lbs of lean body mass when he already weighs 311, you're nuts. Maybe in a year and a half he'll add 9 lbs of muscle. Again, I don't think you lift weights.
  18. Riff Raff
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    I've never said I was. I'm pointing out that it wasn't merely his performances at the Senior Bowl or the combine that indicate his abilities, but rather confirm that they are real.

    And your common sense comment really isn't applicable. If the kid has ability & sound fundamentals, a good coach can bring him up to speed pretty quickly. They both need work on getting stronger & anchoring. Neither is simply a plug-and-play type of player who won't have struggles.
  19. SuperCharger92
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    He's a professional football player.

    If he nutritions right, and has a consistent routine, which I'm sure he will in an NFL strength and conditioning program he should be able to gain lean muscle in 8 weeks or so.
  20. matilack
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    matilack #therealagent47

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    Sure whatever, but what I'm saying is the player I'm willing to bank on being ready NFL first (based on quality of college coaching and competition) is Lane Johnson....hence higher draft status. If you can find one pundit or scout who has these two going shoulder to shoulder in the draft I'd love to hear about it.
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  21. Bolts4lyfe
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    Toby? Toby Wong. Toby Wong? Toby Wong, Toby Chung F@#$ing Charlie Chan.

    I got Stars fat % coming out of my left ear and Terron........I don't know what coming out of my right.
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  22. Ikeman83
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    Wow. You seriously think that you can gain 9 lbs of muscle in 8 weeks? I mean, come on. This isn't about being in an NFL strength and conditioning program, this is about the basics of human biology and the way muscle development works. If he was 6'4 and weighed 150 lbs I'd believe gaining 9 lbs in 8 weeks, but he's not. It becomes exponentially more difficult to add additional muscle mass as you move to more and more advanced stages of lifting.

    The only way he's putting on 9 lbs of muscle in 8 weeks is if he starts pounding steroids, HGH, and insulin.
  23. Bolts4lyfe
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    ESPN's Adam Schefter expects each of Luke Joeckel, Eric Fisher and Lane Johnson to come off the board in the first seven picks, and "maybe sooner."
    Where it once appeared Johnson may fall into the No. 10-12 range, it's become increasingly clear it won't happen. Johnson thinks he could go at No. 4 to the Eagles, while the Lions will certainly give him strong consideration at No. 5. If the Dolphins are interested intrading up for the draft's No. 3 tackle, they're going to have to pay a heavy price.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Here's hoping one of these guys are wearing a lighting bolt on their hat come April 25th
  24. SuperCharger92
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    I don't believe this.

    Taking a project at LOT in the top 10 is such a reach. Not saying he won't turn out to be a great player, but elite players are taken in the top 5-6 picks.
  25. Bolts4lyfe
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    Aside from Joeckel, Fisher, Warmack, Cooper there are no players termed with the "Elite" tag

    As Teleseco said in past drafts you get a feel who's going to be picked 1-10, in this draft you have no clue who the picks 1-15 are going to be.

    This draft has no real elite players on defense with the exception of Milliner being a tier ahead of the 2nd and 3rd best CB's but still isn't close to Patrick Peterson, Joe Haden, or even Mo Claireborne.

    Dion Jordan (who I love) is said to be the best 3-4 OLB with 5 sacks last year, Ziggy Ansah is said to go in the top 10 even top 5 and is still learning not just the position but the sport. That's scary as S#%T!!!!! There is no clear cut best QB, The best WR's are between a guy who isn't a great route runner but, makes plays after the ball is in his hands and a 'Slot" WR, those again are scary as S#$T.

    At this point I would not be surprised to see all 5 O line men go in the top 10 (at least top 2 OT's and top OG's) because they are in fact the "Elite" and "Safest" picks. I don't think that is going to happen but since there is truly not one guy high above the rest, anything's possible.
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  26. Boltjolt
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    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    This draft doesnt have any that stand out as clear cut top 10 picks let alone top 5. Im sure teams picking there want to trade out in the worst way but wont be able to.
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  27. Ikeman83
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    Basically, if you're picking in the 20s then this is a great draft. The talent drop off 15-25 compared to 5-15 is almost null. We're just right in that garbage range this year where we're too low to get an elite prospect, but will still have the dilemma of selecting which of the next 15 roughly equal remaining prospects is the best, in spite of that player likely not being at a premium position.
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  28. LT-Express
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    I mean it's like I have said before. I have seen guys like Lotulelei, Dion Jordan, Ziggy Ansah, Bjoern Werner, Barkevious Mingo, and Jarvis Jones all as high as #2 and as low and #20 for a couple of them. No one knows what this class is made of.
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  29. Boltjolt
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    Yeah, and me, for our team, i dont care for Mingo or Jones. Werner i see as a 4-3 DE and i didnt see one BYU game this year and havent watched any of Ansah's video so i dont have an opinion of him. For OLB, i really like Jaime Collins potentual. He is still getting bigger and has only been a LB for two seasons.
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  30. SuperCharger92
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    I'll give you 5-6 elite players now,

    1. Eric Fisher
    2. Luke Joeckel
    3. Dion Jordan
    4. Dee Milliner
    5. Chance Warmack
    6. Star Lotulelei

    But I do agree, that this draft is weak at the top, I just feel like there are 5-6 elite players in this draft, but some teams will not be drafting them due to their needs or because there crowded at the position.

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