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Where do you want us to end up?

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by LT-Express, Apr 17, 2013.

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What do you want SD to do with their #11 pick this year?

  1. Trade up and pay a kings ransom to get one of the big 3 OT's?

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Stay put at #11 and possibly take Warmack, Cooper, or someone else?

    58.8%
  3. Trade down, gather picks, and take BPA at that slot?

    41.2%
  1. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    What do you think we should do in the first round of this years draft? New regime usually brings new ideas, or strategies. What do you think TT, and McCoy will do with this pick?
     
  2. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    B or C. If the guards are there, B. If not, C
     
  3. Moses

    Moses Yeah Buddy!

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    Considering the depth of the draft and the wider array of needs that we have for our team, I think a second rounder can also get us a quality player.

    With that in mind, it makes the idea of trading up (and likely losing that second rounder to do so), not very appealing.

    I know the flip-side of that is the importance of a legitimate left tackle to protect Rivers, but when you can honestly say you have 4 spots on your OL in need of upgrade, are missing a starting CB, could use another pass rusher, only have 1 NT, wouldn't mind a SS, could need a RB, I don't think you can afford to give up multiple picks to get 1 player.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I think that we should probably try to trade down. I think that we will probably pick the BPA at our "natural slot"
     
  5. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    The way things are shaping up I want 100% to trade down. I think we could trade down, and still land one of the guards, and pick up one of the tackles in round 2. Depends on where Warmack goes I suppose whether or not we should trade back.
     
  6. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    What does Warmack have to do with it? He's a piss poor value at 11 regardless, and if a team in the top 10 wants to take him I will be ecstatic that we dodged that horrendous value bullet.

    If Lane Johnson is gone we need to do our best to trade down, preferably only a few spots at a time.
     
  7. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    It's pretty simple actually. If Warmack makes it out of the top 10, and we trade back it's much more likely depending on how far we go back, on whether or not we get one of the 2 guards.

    It's highly unlikely that Lane Johnson at this point makes it out of the top 7 let alone the top 10. And if he did fall there is going to be someone trying to move ahead of us to get him. So by trading back if Warmack does fall, we could have the ability to trade back and still get Oline help.
     
  8. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    There will be a high % OLman at 11. Stay put.
    And if there isn't a high % OLman at 11, it's not like that's the only position of need. If enough of the 10 teams in front of us run at OL, there will be DBs, pass rushers, and DL. We gotta stick at 11 at least while maintaining the picks in lower rounds to shore up lack of starters and depth.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Warmack is not the last starting guard in this draft, FAR from it. That said Terron Armstead may damn well be the last capable rookie starting left tackle, and he's not going to fall to 45.

    Why not take Armstead in the mid-late 20's, and take Jones, Winters, Tretter, Watford or Bailey down the line? All of whom can start day 1 like VASQUEZ did.
     
  10. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    If we miss out on the top 3 tackles staying put at 11 and taking Warmack or Cooper is better value for us IMO than taking a gamble on a Larry English type pass rusher.

    As soon as the rookie wage scale went into effect, premium value went out the window. It's not like years past where signing this kid to 20 million a year hurts a pocket book. It won't set you back anymore. Taking what is said to be "The Best Player in this entire draft" at 11 while getting an impact player on our O line is a very good pick.

    Sure OG is not premium, and sure you can find guys later on, There is a reason these 2 players are ranked a full round above Wardford, Tretter, Bailey ETC.

    Another things that's is being tossed around is that the value scale on a pick at 5 vs 45 is not far off from each other.

    Why not get a pro bowl type/ day one starter in the first? (that's what every team is looking for anyways.)

    Then cash in on

    OLB Okafor, CB Slay or Hayden etc. etc.

    I can tell you one thing, at some point valuable players are going to drop in the 2nd or 3rd due to the run on QB's

    I would be a hell of a lot more pissed losing our value defense picks in the 2nd-4th rounds trying to fill a need on the o line (who may or may not be an upgrade over the guys we already have, Dunlap, Rinehart) than getting a sure fire upgrade, not sexy yet solid pick in getting an elite guard.

    Mike Lupati or Larry English who would you rather have? Because A lot of these later pass rushers have a better chance on being a "healthy" Larry English type (1 or 2 sack ) than Warmack or Cooper have in not being Lupati
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    You have a better "Chance":whistling: putting points on the board going "safer" trying to hit those doubles or singles than you would trying to swing for the fences every at bat


    Again Im not saying we don't need a LT or RT because we surely do, but If we lose out on a top 3 LT, I'd rather get a top OG than a "just good enough O line" in the later rounds.

    Again the question that should be asked again for Rivers, What hurt worse, The loss of McNeill or the loss of Dielman?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

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    All depends on who is there at #11. If the 3 Tackles are gone before pick 8 and both Warmack and Cooper are there at #11 we might be able to slide down and possibly grab Cooper. Having said that I'd be comfortable with either at #11. In fact for me Cooper might end up being the better player. I can see him becoming the next Courtney Hall or even Dermontti Dawson.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Dude maybe I am not explaining this very well. My point in the original post is that I want us to trade back, and take some form of Oline help. But I wasn't talking about moving back to the mid 20's, I was more referring to the 15-20 range, and if we could did go back that far than Armstead would be a much better pick. So what I am saying is that our odds get much better to grab TOP TIER line help if Warmack does make it out of the top 10, while still trading back. To be honest if the top 3 LT are off the board and lets say we don't strike a deal to move back (which I hope we can) then what? Do we reach for Armstead who has a 2nd round grade at 11? Or take either Warmack, or Cooper even though according to you the value is piss poor?

    I think the two above me may of explained it better than I did. Sorry.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    And I guess my main point is saying we need "O-line help" is a broad stroke. What we NEED is a LT first and foremost, and there are very few of them thanks to Lewan and Matthews going back to school. OG is probably 3rd or 4th in our list of needs, and as I said you can find day 1 starters in the 3rd and 4th round.

    So why not trade down a 2nd time and take Armstead at fair value, get rid of out biggest need, while adding more day 2 and 3 picks in the process?

    JMO Warmack is not good enough for me to overlook the supply/demand of LTs.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I have been pressing for a LT all offseason. However, with the fact that all 3 are likely to be gone by pick #7 then it's likely if we want one of them we would have to move up to get them. With that said, there is no guarantee that we can move back which I 100% want to do. Especially to the mid/late 20's. Most of those teams aren't going to want to pay what it would cost to do that unless they have few needs and a plethora of picks to unload. So if we can't get good enough compensation to move back and end up staying at 11 then what? Reach for Armstead because he is the last "possible" remaining LT on the board that can possibly start? Take BPA from another position OLB/CB/DT? Take one of the guards? JMO is that guard is still a position of NEED, and it's better to take one of the two safer picks at that spot if we have to stay, than to reach at 11 for a guy that's has a second round grade and is extremely raw.

    Trust me dude I want nothing more than to take a LT in round 1, I have been saying it for months, and I would prefer to move back to and still be able to do it. I just don't know if we are going to be able to get a deal done to move back far enough to make Armstead a better value. Not to mention if teams see us go back to a certain spot, and trade ahead of us to take Armstead then we end up with neither Armstead nor Cooper/Warmack. Then I will be pissed. I just want this fuggin line to be fixed, and it's an opinion of how to start doing it. Nothing more.
     
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  16. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    I'm willing to bet that in 7 days one of these 4 will be a Charger

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Just to add more to what you said about the OG position, they're still valuable, they still pass protect, they help tremendously in the run game. Taking one of these solid picks at 11 to me is more valuable than finding a trade partner (which Telesco already mentioned is made or mapped out before the draft even begins) Move back, and maybe get Terron Armstead who may or may not be an upgrade over Dunlap right now.

    Dunlap did quite well last year in pass protection, it was his run blocking he had issues with, Enter Potential Pro Bowl caliber Guard, Philly fans hated Dunlap but they also Booed Santa Claus so I take their word with a grain of salt. My friend who is a die hard Philly fan actually thought Dunlap was great in pass protection.

    If we miss out on getting one of these top LT's, I say we take a Guard, from there go with BPA at OLB, NT, CB etc. Even WR or QB for all I care. At this point no sense in really trying to find that LT in rounds 2 through 7 unless you want them to develop for a year.

    Then once the draft is over we have a Great pick at OG, Hardwick at Center who would produce a lot better with help to the left of him, Rinehart who graded out fairly well in his short playing time, Dunlap at RT because Clary sucks.

    Then you work your magic bringing in McKinnie. Sure it would be a band aid but would be a massive upgrade from the past couple years.
     
  18. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    The Atlanta Falcons are supposedly trying to trade up from 30, I wouldn't mind taking a 2nd round pick and a later one from them as well.

    There honestly a prime team to do so, there only a piece or two away from making another playoff run like in 2012.
     
  19. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Who are the other 3? ;)
     
  20. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    So if the draft indeed looks like,

    1. KC - Luke Joeckel OT
    2. JAX - Dion Jordan OLB/DE
    3. OAK - Shariff Floyd DT
    4. PHI - Lane Johnson OT
    5. DET - Eric Fisher OT
    6. CLE - Dee Milliner CB
    7. ARI - Jonathan Cooper OG
    8. BUF - Geno Smith/Ryan Nassib QB
    9. NYJ - Barkevious Mingo OLB
    10. TENN - Chance Warmack OG

    So our draft options are.

    Kenny Vaccaro S
    Zeke Ansah OLB
    Jarvis Jones OLB
    Star Lotulelei NT

    I would only take Star Lotulelei if he fell there, and possibly Kenny Vaccaro. But, my first option would be to trade down.
     
  21. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    uhhhhh Larry, Mo, And Curly????? I only said 4

    If the hype train is correct that all 3 Lt's will be gone in the top 10 (some even saying top 5) I think we still have a shot at getting one of these guys. Star or Cooper more likely.

    Star to help out on the D line, Is married with 2 kids, McCoy seems enamored with that about his player, Also being a fellow Utah player himself may lean towards his roots.

    Cooper for his versatility, his immediate upgrade on the line, and because G@#%^&&*# I want him on our team.

    Any way you look at it, although some may not be as premium or sought of than others, there is no arguing that all four would not be BPA at 11. Considering on most boards at least two of them *cough* Guards *cough* are ranked the best two players in this draft.
     
  22. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I 100% do not want Star at 11. Nothing about his ability, I just do not want to spend another season with our OLine in the toilet. I agree with Matty in the fact that if we are able to trade back as far as the mid 20's and grab Armstead I am ok with that. If we stay put I want one of the guards if the LT's are gone , otherwise I say move back as far as you can and take BPA.
     
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  23. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Again though, Can Armstead contribute right now? or is he going to be a project we have to develop?

    I'd rather get one of the guards right now who potentially can come in and be an All Pro right away, and would rather get an athletic developmental LT in the later rounds like Quessenberry, Nixon, or Fragel.

    The first 3 rounds NEED to be players who can come in and contribute day 1
     
  24. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Lol, dude you and I agree on this. It just depends are where we pick. If we drop down we may not get one of the guards. Hell we may not get one of the guards sitting still at 11. This draft is crazy. And for the first time in a long time we have a regime that HOPEFULLY takes beef up front in the early rounds, and now the talent pool is limited.
     
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  25. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    This offensive line was crap last year.

    What has that got to do with 2013? 2012 is in the past, but we do need to improve this offensive line. We have a new coaching staff, and new gameplan. I have full confidence Mike McCoy will adapt to his teams' strengths unlike what Norv did here.

    King Dunlap, was a good signing, great in pass protection, not the best run blocker though.
    Chad Rinehart, was a good signing, excelled in Joe D's system he ran with the Bills in pass protection and the run game.

    Expect that same exact system to be ran here in SD. We're going to have some solid OG play from guys like Chad Rinehart, Johnnie Troutman, Steve Schilling, Kevin Haslam, Rich Ohrenberger and even Mike Harris and Colin Baxter. 2 of those guys are going to contribute as starters. I really liked Steve Schilling in 2011, when he started against the Chicago Bears, handled Julius Peppers and co. very nicely. Then of course, I like Chad Rinehart.

    We can draft an OG in the later rounds, whether its David Quessenberry, Earl Watford, etc.

    At LOT we have a need, but we don't need anybody to step in right away. I think King Dunlap will be able to hold it down.

    Again, Lane Johnson will be as much as a project as Terron Armstead. That's why I do believe he fits Chip Kelly's system in Philly the best out of teams with a pick from 1-12, his weaknesses might be hidden in that up-tempo system.
     
  26. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    That other "later" pick would have to be a good one to move up 19 spots in the first round. Their second round pick isn't until #60 so the value is somewhat lessened.
     
  27. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    This year won't cost as much to move up. But 19 spots, we might get a 2nd and possibly 4th. Or, 2nd and 6th. I don't see us getting 3 picks from this draft.
     
  28. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    It's not always about the value chart. I am assuming you are basing your the picks on what we gave up to move up from 28 to take Mathews right? I doubt we would consider putting ourselves in a situation moving back all the way to the end of the first round to not have any of the 3 LT's, Cooper/Warmack and putting us likely out of the range of Armstead unless Atlanta made us a ludacris offer.
     
  29. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Additional 2014 pick maybe?

    That may be a little far back to move for my taste, but rather do and address the OL with #30 and #45 if one of the OT's isn't there
     
  30. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Hmmmmm Very interesting


    NFL.com's Ian Rapoport "hears" the Vikings want to trade up in the draft and could be eyeing West Virginia WR Tavon Austin or Tennessee WR Cordarrelle Patterson.
    The Vikings have two first-round picks -- No. 23 and 25 overall. Rapoport thinks it's doubtful Minnesota would trade both, and he'd "bet" the Vikings keep the 25th pick. The Chargers are mentioned as a team wanting to move back from the No. 11 slot if one of the top three offensive tackles doesn't fall to them, so there could be a match. Austin is looking like a sure top-15 pick next week.
     

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