1. Welcome to San Diego Chargers NFL Football Podcast and Forum!
    Bolt Talk is one of the largest online communities for the San Diego Chargers.
    We host a regular Chargers podcast during the season.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Create an Account or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!

Who should be the next Charger HC?

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by rickochey, Nov 21, 2011.

  1. Lance19
    Offline

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,001
    Location:
    Wherever these Valkyries drop me...
    Ratings Received:
    +1,363 / 36 / -16
    I don't think Occam's razor really applies to such a small sample. By this reasoning,
    Tim Tebow is a beast and extremely good at this job, and is a lock to be a successful
    NFL quarterback.

    I like Harbaugh's early results, but I'm not ready to develop an irrational
    man-crush based on less than 2/3 of a single season. But then, I'm a "show me"
    kind of guy. Heck, I didn't even get excited when this kid 'Leaf' won his first
    two Charger starts...
  2. Ride The Lightning
    Offline

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    10,691
    Location:
    Chula Vista, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +1,531 / 7 / -2
    Well, so far Tebow and Harbaugh have both proven to be successful as a QB and HC respectively, both in college and the pros.
  3. Lance19
    Offline

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,001
    Location:
    Wherever these Valkyries drop me...
    Ratings Received:
    +1,363 / 36 / -16
    Wow! I sure wish I could reconcile your account of this glorious warrior
    with my memory of Harbaugh the Sloppy Interception Machine
    "leading" the Chargers to embarrassing loss after loss in 1999 & 2000.

    I know re-writing history here is commonplace, but geez, Harbaugh stunk up
    the joint right here! Right in front of our own eyes! I praise his early coaching
    efforts (without pretending we know he'll continue to be successful),
    but that doesn't change his unfearless, sorry performance in a Charger uni.
  4. Ride The Lightning
    Offline

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    10,691
    Location:
    Chula Vista, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +1,531 / 7 / -2
    FWIW the whole team was completely terrible.
  5. Lance19
    Offline

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,001
    Location:
    Wherever these Valkyries drop me...
    Ratings Received:
    +1,363 / 36 / -16

    My point exactly!! If you think a guy has a good chance of being a successful
    NFL quarterback by routinely leading his team to a single TD (against mediocre teams)
    then you're expecting something that's never happened in the modern game.
    Yes, the Tebow-heads buy into the Timmy fantasy, but few who actually know the
    game expect it to last even as long as the wildcat.

    While I think Harbaugh has a much better chance of long-term success than TT does,
    the point is that sweeping conclusions based on such a short NFL track record just
    don't make sense. Time will tell if JH is a great coach. But it's waaaaaaaay too
    early to jump to that conclusion yet. At least the Rex Ryan hype is slowing...
  6. Lance19
    Offline

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,001
    Location:
    Wherever these Valkyries drop me...
    Ratings Received:
    +1,363 / 36 / -16
    Overall, it definitely wasn't a good team...(although Seau, Harrison, Carney, Parella,
    Bennett, etc. undermine any "the whole team was completely terrible" claim)
    but Harbaugh also was simply not good. Just keeping the narrative in line with the facts.
  7. Brundlefly
    Offline

    Brundlefly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2009
    Messages:
    2,123
    Ratings Received:
    +259 / 4 / -0
    Not every good coach (including Super Bowl winners) are with the first NFL team they've coached
  8. Scott the Rock
    Offline

    Scott the Rock BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    608
    Location:
    Mountain View California
    Ratings Received:
    +75 / 1 / -0
    You have a point.
  9. BoltsFanUK
    Offline

    BoltsFanUK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,110
    Location:
    Kettering England
    Ratings Received:
    +847 / 1 / -0
    Cowher- General Manager
    Gruden- Head Coach
    Dungy- Offensive co-ordinator
    Billick- Defensive Co-ordinator
  10. scratchnz
    Offline

    scratchnz BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2009
    Messages:
    904
    Ratings Received:
    +50 / 2 / -1
  11. nickelbolt
    Offline

    nickelbolt Fuggedaboutit

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    6,167
    Ratings Received:
    +886 / 0 / -0
    Lance... You don't get it. His results as a player in a Chargers uniform has nothing to do with his performance as a coach. Which is why I didn't mention his playing days. But if you want to go there try looking at his body of work as a player in both college and the pro's. He definitely was not the most talented guy, but he made himself successful by working his azz off. Which is what he requires of his current coaches and players. He's also had enough experience as a player at both levels to be able to relate to all levels of player. Did he not lead the Colts to the AFC Championship Game and nearly win NFL MVP? Oh, yeah... and of course he was the QB when the Chargers went 1-15. So what?

    Basing his competitiveness on his final two years of NFL football when his skills were at their lowest is simply ignorant.

    Go ahead and bathe in it if you want.
    • Like Like x 4
  12. HollywoodLeo
    Online

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    13,664
    Ratings Received:
    +1,567 / 27 / -1
    This makes sense since AJ is in charge of hiring and firing the head coach.
  13. The LBC
    Online

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,023
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +937 / 15 / -1
    And I'm back... quite frankly the way the season has been going, I really was just hesitant to visit any forums other than the ones I mod at for fear that so many had taken up the same mantra of the CMB (DotCom) of "Trade Rivers," "Draft Barkley," yada yada yada.

    Look Norv's - maybe in a way - doing us a favor this season. We're failing so miserably that we may finally get the culture change in this organization that we've needed for a long time. I can't say I've been a Norv defender, but I've been a realist in the past that barring an epic collapse, Norv's job was safe - well, gents, that collapse has more than 75% happened. When you've even got Acee - the ultimate Norv and AJ apologist - conceding that Norv's and even AJ's jobs are far from safe, you know things have finally about jumped that hump.

    As to head coaches... please, dear sweet Jesus, NOT JON GRUDEN. He's Norv with a personality... literally, Norv has already "Gruden'ed" this team, we hire Chucky and we're destined for the return of the Beathard/Gilbride days. Gruden rode the coat-tails of Monte Kiffin and one of the historically best defenses in the league in Tampa while gradually degrading a functional offense into obscurity. I literally HATE (with a passion) Jeff Fisher, because he's a scum coach who sends his players out to injure the opposition (which this team has suffered firsthand multiple times), and I'd still take him as an at least competent HC over Gruden.

    Conc hit it on the head... retreads were fired for a reason. Unless they're guys whose situation presented them with little to no opportunity to succeed, like Dave McGinnis in Arizona under the cheapskate Bidwills or Dom Capers with an expansion Texans team (who had one of the worst OL's in NFL history), there doesn't seem to be much grounds to base giving these guys another crack... it's not like retreads have a particularly stellar success rate.

    Top of my list is Vic Fangio (SF's DC... yeah you know, we took Manusky off their hands and they ended up with someone good). He's got NFL experience (was on the Ravens staff as a special assistant the HC for several of John Harbaugh's first years of tenure). He runs a Capers/2-gapping 3-4 which is much more suited to our personnel. And he's got ties to quality assistants (which dear lord we need like nobodies' business!).

    Zimmer's a close second. And Capers a not-too-distant 3rd.

    Like I said this team needs a culture change something fierce. That doesn't mean a drill sergeant but it does mean someone who flat out believes in his players - which I'm not convinced Norv does - and someone who has the respect around the league to be able to pull in quality assistants and positional coaches who are able to develop and mold talent - something Norv has utterly failed at in any instance that didn't include positional coaches willed to him by the previous administration. The perk to Capers is that there's a distinct possibility, since he'd be likely calling and setting up the defense from Day One, that he might be able to bring Kevin Greene along with him as a DC to groom - and that's a guy who brings the mentality that everyone on our defense needs. Worst case scenario, whoever we hire needs to be on the phone to Junior and get his butt in as an LB Coach - he's capable, he needs to be re-associated with this team before he goes into the HOF, and again... he demands that intensity of those under his charge that this team has lacked for some time.
  14. The LBC
    Online

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,023
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +937 / 15 / -1
    Add to what Leo said... that there aren't going to be a ton of "big name" coaches that will be biting and clawing to work with AJ. The plan, from what I'd read, was for him to retire and pass the job along to John Spanos in 2014, but it's possible given what's going on that rather than see himself get canned, he works out a deal with Dean to "retire" in order to save face - while still effectively having his contract bought out at a rate in some capacity. This of course leaves us with the boss' kid as the GM in waiting... not something I'm particularly pleased with consider I think our scouting staff has been lacking considerably. But if Spanos accepts a role that is primarily in charge of scouting with final personnel decision-making being in the hands of whoever the new HC is then we're in probably the best realistic shape we could end up in.

    AJ's got 2 seasons left on his contract and then he's off to Hawaii, I don't think he's got quite the influence on the new hiring as he previously did in Norv's hiring; if anything I think the new HC might have pretty substantial influence (depending on who it is) as to whether AJ stays depending on how much personnel control homeboy demands.
  15. HollywoodLeo
    Online

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    13,664
    Ratings Received:
    +1,567 / 27 / -1
    I don't see why fans feel the need to group Head Coaches into classifications (Coordinator, "retread", college, et al) and then decide which group they want to hire from.

    Every group imaginable has failures and success stories and fans that favor a particular group will always cherry pick the ones that make their argument fit.

    For every Norv Turner/Herm Edwards/Joe Gibbs part 2 retread there's a Bill Belichick or a Tony Dungy that got it done.

    For every Wade Phillips/Norv Turner/Mike Singletary coordinator that failed there's a Mike Tomlin or a Ken Wisenhunt that's seen success.

    For every Steve Spurrier and Nick Saban college coach that's failed there's a Barry Switzer or a Jimmy Johnson, (Jim Harbuagh is looking good early on.)

    The ratio is obviously not the 1:1 that makes it out to be. In fact, there's probably more failures than successes in each category because that's how sports work. But the point is, there's successes and failures in each category and it makes no sense to me to say "I don't want a retread!" or "I don't want a college coach!" or "I don't want some inexperienced coordinator!" because that's too wide of a group regardless of your taste.
    • Like Like x 3
  16. The LBC
    Online

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,023
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +937 / 15 / -1
    Except that Billick was/is an offensive-oriented coach hired off of Denny Green's Minnesota staff. And Dungy was a defensive-oriented coach who, like Gruden (offensive coach but he still shared in this like Dungy did) rode heavily on Monte Kiffin's coat-tails.

    Also... we'd need a new owner if this all went down. Because it would cost upwards of $25M to buy-out the combined contracts Cowher, Gruden (the most expensive of them all because his contract's with Disney/ABC/ESPN), Dungy, and Billick from the networks they've signed with long-term.
  17. The LBC
    Online

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,023
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +937 / 15 / -1
    Well... I'll come really close to saying I don't want a retread if only because, short of Dom Capers and maybe Mike Mularkey, I don't see a retread I'm particularly fond of for the job. Not gonna go that extent with the other categoris. But Fisher is scum. Guys like Cowher, Gibbs, Parcells, etc. are far less likely to actually come back to coaching than people seem to believe they are. (Cowher's comfortable as hell with where he's at, he's in no hurry to come back to coaching now... if ever). Heck... the one retread I'd love to have because he'd bring exactly what this team needs is just flat out too old to have any interest and that's Dick Vermeil!

    College coaches - low success rate but there are some guys who are available I could honestly see succeeding as pro coaches if they had a GM willing to really and truly work with them.

    The Coordinator/Asst route - there are some viable contenders, but it's not as deep as it used to be to be honest.

    Personally, I'm fearful that the Spanos' are going to go after someone who they feel is a "big name" but who in reality is just a retread junker with a spotty history at best, as a means to try and sell tickets (someone like Del Rio or Wade).

    BTW... Leo... I do NOT approve of your new avy.
    • Like Like x 1
  18. HollywoodLeo
    Online

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    13,664
    Ratings Received:
    +1,567 / 27 / -1
    There's that *** talk we talked about.
  19. The LBC
    Online

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,023
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +937 / 15 / -1
    Much better.
  20. JoeRockhead
    Offline

    JoeRockhead BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,233
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Ratings Received:
    +85 / 0 / -1
    I would say he was about at the end of his career, and those Chargers teams weren't exactly full of talent.
  21. JoeRockhead
    Offline

    JoeRockhead BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,233
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Ratings Received:
    +85 / 0 / -1
    I seem to remember him being a good QB at Michigan, Chicago and Indy. He had a lot of fire as a player.
    I grew up in Michigan and saw him on TV a lot. So I don't know what the crap your talking about. His got the Colts a long way in the playoffs and beat a pretty good Chargers team in the playoffs. He was no superstar, just a good hardnosed QB.
  22. Aggieman
    Offline

    Aggieman I bleed blue and gold

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Messages:
    2,363
    Ratings Received:
    +194 / 0 / -0
    If you want to see Chuck Pagano's schemes in action, watch highlights from the 49ers-Ravens game. Pagano and John Harbaugh are putting on a clinic, but so is little bro Jimmy and Fangio.
  23. The LBC
    Online

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,023
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +937 / 15 / -1
    It's two-gapping 3-4 defense at its finest. It's what we should have been running for some time now as our players are better fits for the scheme - well... minus the fact that other than Phillips we don't have another consistent edge-rusher (Barnes has his flashes, but Pagano's/Fangio's scheme call for either edge-rusher to be capable of dropping into zone on any given play that they're in - hence why Aldon Smith isn't seeing as many reps in the SF rotation right now, and Barnes isn't the picture of consistency)... and even worse we have the hot garbage that is Travis LaBoy in place of that.

    Give me any of the DC's from SF, Baltimore, or Green Bay (Dom Capers being Vic Fangio's mentor).
  24. HollywoodLeo
    Online

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    13,664
    Ratings Received:
    +1,567 / 27 / -1
    Just throwing the name out there with little to no personal insight to offer: Rob Ryan?
  25. AnteaterCharger
    Offline

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    18,111
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +2,423 / 19 / -4
    One thing for those who want bill Cowher to be our coach to take note of;

    Cowher idolizes Marty Schottenheimer. He was in the coaching tree, he admired him a great deal, he thought the world of him. Does anyone think he would work for the guy that so thoroughly, right or wrong, dissed his friend and mentor? Would he ever work for the general manager that forced his mentor out of town after an incredible 14-2 season?

    And for the record Dom capers was the coach for the expansion texans for a few years, I do not think he would be a great fit here. Now him as our DC with Winston Moss as HC I could tolerate nicely.
  26. The LBC
    Online

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,023
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +937 / 15 / -1
    Capers' only two HC gigs in the NFL were in both instances for expansion teams. Go back and look at that Texans roster - more specifically the OL - it was wretched; and rightfully so, it was comprised almost entirely of guys that other teams really couldn't have cared less one way or another if they lost or not (kind of how the expansion draft system works). He had a QB who set the NFL record for most times being sacked in a single season and up until McNabb in 2007 for the Eagles held the record for most times sacked in a single game. When given the proper tools there's no doubting what Capers can do - want proof, go back and look at the Panthers when they started out as a franchise under him... they were one win away from a Super Bowl... with Kerry freakin' Collins as their QB and Brad Hoover as their leading rusher.

    I don't mind Moss as much, I just don't know that he necessarily has the play-calling/designing acumen that Capers does.

    I do agree with you on Cowher. I don't think he'd have any interest in working with/for AJ Smith; I even think he'd take issue with working for the Spanos' given how devout to Marty he's been. Then throw in the fact that he'd cost a ton of money to employ (in terms of buying out his network contract to free him up and then paying his salary - and I just don't see Dean and A.G. being terribly enthused about having to back a Brinks truck up to deliver a coach), and I just don't think he's a realistic option at all. I also don't believe Cowher's in any rush to come back to coaching. Same with Dungy, though I give Dungy much less likelihood of coming out of retirement.
  27. Pointyearedog
    Offline

    Pointyearedog BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,920
    Location:
    Golden Hill
    Ratings Received:
    +766 / 5 / -0
    Let Chargers management buy a slip in the docks for Jimmy Johnson... But seriously, you can wish for whatever you think this organization needs, then it has to pass the desk of AJ Smith. Who do you think he would approve?
  28. HollywoodLeo
    Online

    HollywoodLeo Trevor Phillips Enterprises

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    13,664
    Ratings Received:
    +1,567 / 27 / -1
    Can soembody clear up the matter for me on whether or not AJ can hire and fire a head coach?

    I'm sure his opinion carries weight, but as far as I know that's Dean's call.
  29. The LBC
    Online

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,023
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Ratings Received:
    +937 / 15 / -1
    Pretty sure that you've got it right. Thing is it's hard to pinpoint because no two organizations are the same. In some it's very clear that management works for ownership and ownership (particularly in staffing situations) makes a point of having their influence/final say in the hiring processes. In others, ownership is content to sit back and let management do what they "trusted" them to do when they hired them.

    Really, I think we'll see a lot of what Dean's motives actually are in how this all plays out. When you've got even Acee saying that AJ's job isn't the lock that it once was - with KA being the ultimate AJ apologist - you've got to suspect something may be teeming beneath the surface. What I suspect (this is purely opinion, but I'm just piecing together things from a theory that Dean isn't going to completely scrap previous long-term organizational plans) is that A.G. and John are going to be heavily integrated into the process since the plan was (correct me if I'm mistaken) for A.G. to take over the business end and John the team management end of the team by 2014 when AJ sets sail for Hawaii. This last little bit might be more hope than anything else, but I'm starting to wonder whether or not AJ isn't sort of supplemental to the process. Dean likes him and I think Dean values his opinion, but I also don't believe Dean (who is far more of a "business first" guy) is going to put AJ before the business. If AJ Smith is the impasse between getting a HC and staff that will give Dean a boost at the gates and in season ticket sales (which are about the only things he can hope for to try and make a SD-local new stadium look enticing to potential investors - or the cheap skate city council), then AJ becomes an expendable asset. It might end up as something that's a more long and drawn out process than just outright firing him - like starting out by "tying a hand behind his back" by scaling back the degree of AJ's universal personnel control and giving that over as a means to entice a more hands-on HC candidate, which could ultimately end up in pressing AJ to "retire" early (i.e. testing the resolve of AJ's ego as to which is more important: Going out on his terms and saving face or forcing Dean's hand to outright fire him in order to recoup the remaining money due on his contract).
  30. SD Charger Fans in Austin
    Offline

    SD Charger Fans in Austin BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2011
    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Ratings Received:
    +15 / 0 / -0
    I could get behind Fischer. I also would support a string defensive mind like Rob Ryan. However, I feel that AJ Smith is a much larger problem than Norv. If Norv gets the boot and AJ stays, then the move is only symbolic and nothing will change.
    FIRE AJ SMITH!!!!!

Share This Page