Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by SuperCharger92, Nov 24, 2012.
Philip Rivers disagrees with your assessment of sideline faces.
I'd say it's neck and neck and you and Philip are right.
I was just saying, Gruden was handed a great team and took them to the Super Bowl. Some of it has to do with coaching. It's not all on the players. Norv was handed a great team here as well, and didn't do much with it.
The Patriots should of been defeated in that 2001 "Snow Bowl". That call turned literally everything around for New England. Oakland was in the driving seat.
Well, you said after that Super Bowl year, he made it to the playoffs and lost games and missed the playoffs. Well let's look at his QB's after the Super Bowl?
2003: Brad Johnson
2004: Brian Griese, Brad Johnson
2005: Chris Simms, Brian Griese
2006: Chris Simms, Bruce Gradkowksi
2007: Jeff Garcia, Luke McCown
2008: Jeff Garcia, Brian Griese
He had 3 QB's over 32 for 6 years. And some of them played great football under him in 2005, 2007 and 2008. And look who he had at QB. None of them played a 16 game season, cause of injuries or poor play. There was just no continuity. Also, In those years he went 29-19 with them taking them to the playoffs in 2005 & 2007 losing the wild card games. In 2007 they lost to the Super Bowl winning Giants..
He also endured a team who's owner bought Manchester United, and really had no interest in the Buc's after the Super Bowl winning season. He endured a cap heavy team and no 1st rounders or 2nd rounders for the following two years after the Super Bowl. What was he supposed to do? Tampa wasn't and still isn't a very attractive place to play unless you offer a good amount of money. Which Gruden never had at his side come free agency due to the cap hits he took on. He also had to deal with older players starting to wear out as well.
Listen, I'm not saying he's the best option. I was just wondering what people's thoughts were and if he could fit in San Diego. I'd much rather have a guy who's been in the league the last few years too.
Another note from TB time:
He was left with many bust from the GM McKay. They also spent the least money in the league between 2004 and 2009.
Peps forget he made the Raiders relevant again and aside from the cheap shot atomic elbow drop by Siragusa on Gannon vs the Ravens and the 'Tuck' vs the Pats he may have taken the Raiders to 2 SBs.
I would welcome the change. The team is flat. Uninspired.
So Marty had a hard time winning in the playoffs...at least his teams consistently made the playoffs! Also his teams experienced their fair share of bad luck in the playoffs.
If Marlon Mcree had only gone to ground instead of staying on his feet and fumbling the ball...it may have been a different future for the Chargers.
Despite all martys faults...I really enjoyed the type of team we were under Marty...
...Tough...mistake free (for the most part)...motivated...hard to beat
Consistently made the playoffs? Between Norv and Marty only one made the playoffs in consecutive years. Hint: it wasn't Marty.
And if you're going to let Marty off the hook because of McCree you have to let Norv off because of Cromartie.
Look. Im not trying to paint Norv as a good coach. He's not. But we dont have to paint Marty as a great head coach when his resume is stained with multitudes of playoff failure just because he's the guy who came before Norv.
Last post was referencing his tenure with the Chargers. Just realized you meant overall.
Even so, Marty is unduly and vastly overrated by Chargers fans just because he looks great in contrast to Norv and the dubious circumstances of his departure (of which he's not innocent in. It takes two people to argue).
With ya Dave ......................Gruden isn't coming to San Diego, not now, not ever as long as Spanos owns this franchise.
Not sure he'd be a good fit for this group anyway ..................... he'd have most of these pussy's cryin' in the corner with the home truths he'd be blasting them with.
To many on this squad are too mentally soft and couldn't/wouldn't handle his style and I doubt that his intimidation factor could even awaken the jellyfish spine of the likes of a Cason for example ......................... if a player lacks hardness in his game and makeup, no amount of yelling and screaming is gonna suddenly convert that guy into a Ronnie Lott type.
I want a team that will win a super bowl. You only want a team to make the playoffs. Having the #1 seeded team and leaving the stadium with another playoff loss is getting old!
I call BS.
It's all about coaching. The players on this squad are mentally soft primarily BECAUSE of the coaching they're playing under. Give them a real coach and they won't be mentally soft.
I cite the multiple examples of players going elsewhere and not playing soft under other coaches as proof.
Sure, there's likely some stubborn exceptions that'll be soft no matter what. But I highly doubt we managed to consistently piece together a roster full of those types year after year when there's one constant in the bunch.
It amazes me how many Chargers fans hold Marty to such high regard for his 2006 season when Norv had practically a mirror image of that season in 2009.
We don't need to paint Marty as the greatest coach who ever lived just because he was fired under dubious circumstances and was replaced by Norval.
Under the Norv/AJ Era, which players did the Chargers let go to other teams that became stars, better players, or all-pros after they left SD?
Wes Welker and Drew Brees come to mind
They both left when Marty was still here.
But Darren Sproles is at the top of my list.
And from the looks of Thursday night, you can add Steve Gregory to that list. I know, because I saw him eating a turkey leg on TV...
LT doesn't quite fit your criteria.
I guess you can argue that he was slightly productive, and therefore better than the 3.3 ypc crap in 2009, but I'm not buying it, lol
Since the fan-base ran a: 14-2 coach, a super bowl caliber QB and RB, and the greatest Charger ever to the Patriots , running them all out of town, it's only a matter of time when the team itself is run out by the fanbase. Who here thinks they'll play in Anaheim? Los Angeles Chargers of Anaheim sounds a bit odd. Pasadena Chargers?
I mis-understood the question the years had to be when AJ and norv were together?
and who thinks you are a POS?
That was how I understood it
Hey! Just a legitimate question that's all. Bright side of it all, at least the Aztecs would be filling more seats in years to come. Poinsetta Bowl Champs!
Yes, during the Norv/AJ era only. I'm sure that there may be a few questionable ones like some that went from our practice squad or those who have only had mild success with other teams. D Flo, Legedu, Tim Dobbins, Greg Camarillo, Jamal Williams, Kassim Osgood, and Igor Olshansky come to mind.
One of these thing is not like the other one.
Marty's teams continuously shot themselves in the foot and came up short of their own accord in the playoffs. McCree not going to ground is a product of McCree being a moron - and to a small extent not having had it drilled into him by his coaches the proper move in situational football. It had absolutely nothing to do with luck.
Drayton Flagrance headbutting a Pats player had absolutely nothing to do with luck; it was blind stupidity.
Nate Kaeding missing field goals in New York had nothing to do with luck.
And quite frankly, you really don't want to bring "luck" into this discussion. Because true instances of bad luck (as in had Tomlinson and Rivers not injured their knees in consecutive playoff games) there's a pretty damn good chance that the "undefeated" Patriots go down at Foxboro and a Norv-led team goes to the Super Bowl to face Eli and the Giants.
Going 14-2, when your coordinators are doing most of the work and you're effectively a cheerleader with a clipboard, does not give you carte blanche to throw the hissy fit Marty threw when he wasn't given the extension he felt he deserved on account of never having produced a playoff victory for this team (in spite of them going 14-2).
Now c'mon Leo, you can't seriously tell me that players are soft because of WHO coaches them ?
Ultimately come the end of the day, every single player is totally responsible for "his" own performance on that particular day, nobody else, not even a guy who has shown a lack of HC ability like Norf.
If you need someone else to get you mentally prepared to play a hardened sport like Football, then I'd suggest you're in the wrong line of work, plain and simple.
Desire, heart and intestinal fortitude, you are either born with or not, very rarely have I ever seen it "taught", regardless of the sport involved.
It's not 100% nature just as it's not 100% nurture. I would contend that once a player is lost for an extended period of time he's pretty much a lost cause for his career; that there is a point of no return. What we've had is guys who might never have been tough as nails, but they certainly weren't made from cotton candy and marshmallow fluff when we got them either. However, years of being coddled have taken their effect. And these guys have been allowed to believe that underachieving and failing to meet perfectly reasonable benchmarks (assuming benchmarks were even set, which is an entirely separate conversation) was acceptable (because obviously no repercussions like loss of guaranteed spot or demotion was a realistic outcome from poor performance), and that when the going gets tough we just roll over and die and move on to next week. That's on the players (both the locker room leaders and the ones fielding the poor performances themselves) and the coaches and the front office and ownership that allows faulty practice to continue.
You say that a lot, but never say why. How did Marty 'flush his team down the toilet come playoff time'??
Um, Jim Harbaugh anyone? Here is a coach who turned the mentality of that team upside down. They are not "soft" anymore. There quite the opposite. It matters from Day 1. The intensity and energy you bring from Day 1, through practice every day, pre-season, and throughout the season carries over til the last game. He turned a 4-12 team into a 13-3 one last year. Turned a turnover God in Alex Smith into one of the most safest QB's in today's game when it comes to turnovers, and also has made him mentally tough as well. Alex Smith lost his job atleast 100 times.. and yet he still bounced back last year and had a fantastic year.
What is Marty's playoff record? And how many times has he had the #1 seeded team, only to lose thier first game in the playoffs?
Separate names with a comma.