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You're The GM

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by Bolts4lyfe, Mar 20, 2013.

?

Make a case for these players

  1. OT Lane Johnson

    85.7%
  2. OLB Jarvis Jones

    7.1%
  3. DT Star Lotulelei

    7.1%
  1. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Sitting at 11, No trading up, no trading back. You have 3 of the biggest needs to patch up.

    Lane Johnson: You see a lot of potential in this kid, You see him having the highest ceiling out of any tackle in this draft. Still, You know going into the season he may be a project, but feel he can come in and start Day 1. Keeping Rivers up right is the top of your priorities.


    Jarvis Jones: Arguably the best pass rusher in this draft. Had a Spinal issue in college that scares you, although medical records give him the green light suggesting he's healthy and his spinal chord is fine. Outside of our 2 D linemen, and Ingram, we have no one who can put pressure on the QB, and outside of that NY Jet game we had the worst sack numbers out of any other team in the league. Phillips who isn't coming back led our team with 9 sacks, Liuget finished 2nd with 7. Although he isn't as explosive, But it's close. This guy could be your Von Miller

    Star Lotulelei: The only reason you're considering Star at 11 is because his "heart scare" was a concern to the 10 teams in front of you. Star has the talent and potential to go number 1. You see him as a true 4-3 DT but feel his value is too great to pass up and feel he can play NT and solidify one of the youngest, most talented D lines in the league. You take this pick solely on BPA.
     
  2. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Personally I'm a bit torn on the first 2. Although I wouldn't completely hate taking Star, I feel we need either Johnson or Jones before any other position should be addressed.

    Only because we still have Gaither on our roster, we have Dunlap who could play back up and or take over the RT spot so we can get rid of Clary. As of now I'm going with Jones, I'm sure that will change daily.
     
  3. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    Lane Johnson: You take him because of biggest need. He's clearly an elite level athlete, but at the same time, he's never going to be truly elite at anything other than pass protection. He's got a bigtime mean streak, but isn't necessarily very powerful. He's very raw and can get beat by guys who are just as, or more athletic than him, since thats really most of what he brings to the table.

    Jarvis Jones: I would have no reasoning to take him here. Its one of our top 3-3 needs, but what he brings to the table is college production. His athleticism is average, and he's very small for a pass rusher at 6'2" 240. With those types of guys, you need to see elite athleticism/quickness, which he doesn't show. He's highly technically advanced as a pass rusher, but isn't a guy that will dominate in the NFL. Pass rushing today, upside is the name of the game. I pass quite easily on Jones.

    Star Lotulelei: He's BPA plain and simple. The heart scare and scheme fit is an issue here. He's a true 4-3 1 Tech, with extreme athletic ability and power for such a big man. Dominates the point of attack. If healthy, he's one of the top 2-3 players in this draft, nearly without question. He can fit as a 34 NT as long as your playing him as a 1 gap player, or do something along the lines of what Baltimore does with Ngata, let him move around the DL, playing DE to NT in any given game. With the loss of Franklin, NT becomes one of our top 3-4 needs, and this could be a great pick to solidify probably the best 3-4 DL in football for multiple years.

    At this point, I'd be torn between 1 and 3. Jones just doesn't do it for me, he seems like a Robert Mathis type at the next level, will put up solid numbers, but isn't that explosive #1 pass rusher that you bank on consistently. I'm not a huge fan of Lane Johnson, he just looks like he plays weak, and just seems like he will get eaten alive for the first year or so, espcially by the Suggs type rushers, but our need for quality OL is so desperate and is so far in front of any other need that i'd consider him, but i'd rather hold off until the 2nd round, where i feel Kyle Long/Menalik Watson can be just as good in a year or two.
     
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  4. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    In our current situation, you can't justify passing on Lane Johnson for anyone, and I sure as hell wouldn't take Jarvis Jones at 11. He's a late 1st early 2nd round pick.

    Only player other than Johnson that would even raise my eyebrow is Dion Jordan, and I expect both to be gone at 11.
     
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  5. Chico Andy

    Chico Andy BoltTalker

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    My ranking is:
    1. Johnson
    2. Star
    3. Jones

    Trading isn't an option in this scenario. But I'll put it this way. If Star was still available (and assuming the 3 LOT prospects are gone), I would be happy to take him even if trading was an option.
     
  6. Chico Andy

    Chico Andy BoltTalker

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    Good summary! I have nothing to add.
     
  7. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Jarvis Jones, no thanks. I can't see him even going top-15 really, unless Michael Lombardi of the Browns is that obsessed with him. Possibly the NYJ at #9, because Rex is calling the shots.

    Again, we'd have the most versatile DL possibly to ever play the game if we drafted Star Lotulelei. Reyes, Lotulelei, and Liuget all can play NT or DE, and their pass rushers as 3-4 DE's. Against spread teams like the Broncos, we could possibly rush 4 players and still get to Manning or collapse the pocket. All 3 are very strong but quick.

    That's if he checks out physically and all 3 OT's are taken already, which I fear is more and more likely. But with EJ Manuel's draft stock rising, we could possibly see 2-3 QB's taken in the top-10, and if Fisher is there at 11, I promise you there will be no discussing that pick.
     
  8. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    Im telling you with our pick the BPA would be Star. Out of the 3 players listed he is the only one who can make a huge impact the first year, He has the best potential to be a pro bowler every year. Lane Johnson doesnt do it for me, he is extremely athletic. but sit back and watch the tape, does he really have what it takes to be elite, or is he the best tackle left according to Draft experts?? we fell inlove with ryan matthews and he was the wrong pick, The Charger origination wanted to replace LT and WE wanted the next LT, but we got someone who is injury prone and fumbles, the exact oppisite of LT. in the 2010 draft we could have taken
    earl thomas, Jason pierre paul, mike lupati, maurkice pouncey,. its not always about taking the position that needs to be addressed the most when the prospect might fail you in the long run.
     
  9. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Who's says Star Lotulelei will even be around? He might be picked up by the Jaguars, Raiders, or Eagles. But if he is, I'd consider it.

    In 2010, with Norv and AJ, it was a 'win it now' type scenario. We had no time for a raw prospect like JPP, who doesn't even fit our scheme anyways, Maurkice Pouncey? We had Nick Hardwick, good thing we never did that cause after his 2009 season he hasn't missed a game since. Earl Thomas, plays almost the same exact role Eric Weddle has.

    I agree we don't have to draft just to our need, but Philip Rivers has been sacked 80 times the last 2 years, and hit probably tripled that. Its time we protect him, Lane Johnson was nearly flawless at the Senior Bowl against top competition, not to mention the competition he faced. He shows versatility too, playing on both sides, and his an athletic freak with a mean streak. He has pretty good technique as well, and thats key.

    This team gets as far as Philip Rivers can lead them, bottom line.
     
  10. Chico Andy

    Chico Andy BoltTalker

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    What other "If you were GM questions" can y'all come up with?

    Here's one. Would you trade our first pick, #11 for the Rams 1st #16 and their 2nd round #46 prior to the draft? How about if it was during the draft and you know that Lance Johnson is available at that spot?

    Feel free to discuss this, then add your own question.
     
  11. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Prior to the draft? No. If Lane Johnson doesn't fall to us we should be begging teams to trade with us. And yes I would take that deal without a doubt.

    Theoretical situation....

    Miami trades with Buffalo up to 8 to take Lane Johnson, Buffalo moves to 12.
    St Louis in an attempt to secure Alec Ogletree trades up to 11 before Buddy Nix can take his next workout warrior. Do I believe we'd get a 2nd round pick for that? No, maybe a 3rd.
     
  12. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    I really just dont understand what all the hype is about with Lane Johnson. He's a great athlete who's got a mean streak but thats about it. He's got quick feet, but his footwork is awful, his playing strength is really bad, he's a project, that will get absolutely manhandled by NFL caliber players for at least a year or two, so at that point, why not just wait till the 2nd round for Watson/Armstead, even Kyle Long, or if we want to wait even longer, Chris Faulk/Xavier Nixon are worse versions of him, but better strength (though slightly less athletic, way less in Faulks case)
     
  13. NYCharger

    NYCharger BoltTalker

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    I'd be all over that.
     
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  14. Whooki Mane

    Whooki Mane BoltTalker

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    Id take lane johnson out of those 3... too many question marks with jarvis jones for me to take him at 11 between the medical and his extremely unimpressive workout.. hes an undersized olb in the 3-4 and to couple that with the lack of explosiveness he displayed is a red flag to me
     
  15. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Chris Faulk scares me. He is 330+ and he is coming off injury, and still rehabing.

    Menelik Watson, some scouts say is 2 years away from playing, but very bright. But also is older, will be 25 towards the end of the season.

    Terron Armstead might not be there by the time we pick at #45, Kyle Long is a OG without a doubt, Xavier Nixon has the raw skill set, but lot of mental issues on the football field, technique and penalties are a killer, but very athletic.
     
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  16. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    After the top 3 its like flipping a coin. I would be all for taking a raw product like Armstead and waiting if Philip Rivers were 24 years old.
     
  17. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    I want to see more on the "mental issues" from Nixon and where its stemming from, because on the field, lack of work ethic is not an issue in the slightest bit. I dont think his technique is all that terrible. Hand placement is bad, but footwork is incredibly good, as is his leverage, and punch (though sometimes he'll get caught lunging). I dont think he got any penalties in the two games i saw him (Georgia/TAMU). Only thing i find wrong with him is bad hand placement and the occasional lunging, which are relatively easy fixes. Mental side of it may explain a lot, but it really doesn't seem like he has issues with his play on the field. A good OL coach like ours would be the perfect fit though.
     
  18. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    I just feel like Lane Johnson is just as far off as some of those guys from being a good player in the NFL. He just seems like he'll get eaten alive vs NFL DE's who can match his athleticism with burst off the line, and/or have any sort of a bull rush.
     
  19. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I've read over his career (22 starts) he's had a combined 24 penalties. Most false starts, and that whole Florida Gator's team had a problem pass protecting.

    There 2 biggest plays of this season were wiped out by holding penalties from Nixon.
     
  20. Moses

    Moses Yeah Buddy!

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    I take Lane Johnson, for the following reasons:
    - OT the biggest need
    - Has the least health concerns of the 3 mentioned
    - NT by committee has seemed to work ok for us in recent years, and even if that isn't the case, I don't know if I buy Star as a dominant 3-4 NT.
    - Jarvis Jones has nice upside, but I'd be perfectly happy spending a later pick on someone else, or even trying to pick up a bargain free agent after the draft, even bringing back SP for a year.
    - As we have just cut the Big Lazy Gaither, OT is the logical place we go, and I'd be perfectly happy to take Lane if he's there at 11, whereas I'm not so keen on the other 2 in this poll.
     
  21. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    My 7 Most wanted

    [​IMG]
    Lane Johnson OT Oklahoma: Simple as that, Rivers needs protection, Johnson does not have a lot of experience at tackle but his upside is sky high, Could end up as being the best tackle in this draft class. He has the awareness and athleticism you look for in a top left tackle and during the senior bowl he showed off his blocking skills against top defenders and showed to be one of the most impressive prospects in this class. I think even if Lewan and Mathews decided to declare for this years draft Johnson would still be a top consideration.

    [​IMG]
    Jamie Collins OLB Southern Mississippi: Jamie Collins was a good player on a bad team, Like Johnson his athleticism is off the charts, he completely destroyed the Combine. Big , Fast, Physical, Collins can take his college skills to the next level and come in as a pass rushing specialist, whiles contributing on stopping the run as well as dropping into coverage. Collins may be @ in the 3rd but I'm a firm believer in if you want him you take him because he may not be there next time.

    [​IMG]
    Jon Bostic ILB Florida: OK this may be my one of my favorite players in the draft, If Spikes and Cooper got together, had a couple drinks, 9 months later had a baby, it would be this kid. His football IQ and instinct are his greatest strengths, meaning his ability to get his defense lined up to where they need to be as well as calling audibles picking apart what the offense is calling. He is a vocal leader on the field and in the locker room, and also leads by opening up holes to help his teammates by taking on blockers so they can get to the ball carrier. He's also a very powerful hitter, If anyone saw that Teddy Bridgewater hit he laid in the Bowl game knows what Im talking about.

    [​IMG]
    Alvin Bailey OG Akansas: Bailey has a lot of talent and versatility, He was a RG in college but was often switched to the LG side to match up on which ever side the defense's best pass rusher was lined up on His best trait is his strength but he is also capable to get low enough to anchor and can line in multiple schemes Power or Zone. Bailey was rated the 6th best OG to come out in 2014 but opted to come out early. I believe he can provide tremendous help on our struggling line.

    [​IMG]
    TJ Barnes NT Georgia Tech: Question what weighs 350 lbs and runs a 5.19 40? Give up? This Behemoth. Barnes isn't the type to probably play all 3 downs, and most likely won't end up on a ton of stat sheets, but what he does really really well is eat up blockers and takes on the double team which typically what NT are suppose to do. Having Thomas and Barnes rotate would keep both fresh and add the ability to take up a ton of space opening up holes for our DE's and OLB's

    [​IMG]
    Michael Buchanan DE Illinois: This pick would strictly be for depth on our D line in case of injury, He's not your typical 3-4 DE but I expect we could use him as a hybrid DE type pass rusher. or could be used as another OLB (typically a throw in)

    [​IMG]
    Zeke Motta SS Notre Dame: Didn't impress at the Combine, Didn't impress during his pro day, he won't be like Harrison Smith. After saying all of that, the kid can play football. Again this is one of those depth fill in type picks that still add value all over
     
  22. CoronaDoug

    CoronaDoug Well-Known Member

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    Enough said.
     
  23. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    Because when AJ reached for need, that went over REAL well...

    We need impact players here, and Lane Johnson is a reach at this point. The media hype he's gotten really is the only thing going for him. His athleticism is overrated (on the field, Eric Fisher is easily a better athlete than him), and he was bad at the Sr. Bowl (go watch it, people raving about him obviously didn't watch him play in it...). He's going to take just as much time to play well as the next tier of OT's, and his playing strength is awful.
     
  24. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I don't see that much of a difference between Lane Johnson and Terron Armstead anymore. I was biased towards Johnson at first, but Armstead played 37 games at OT over his career. He has far more experience than Johnson and both are very similar.

    I wouldn't say Lane Johnson has poor playing strength, I just think he will have trouble anchoring. Same thing with Armstead, which is why we shouldn't reach at 11. But we need to trade out of 11, acquire a few picks so we can take Armstead, because I have a feeling he won't last til 45.

    And even if he does, we took Marcus McNeill in the 2nd round pick #50, and he started his rookie year and he had a solid career. Just unfortunate he had the spinal issues.
     
  25. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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  26. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I just don't see a difference between him and Terron Armstead. Both are athletic freaks, but have trouble anchoring. Say what you want about the competition Armstead faced, but he has far more experience than Johnson.

    That being said, I see it as a reach to take Lane Johnson at 11.
     
  27. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    I look at it as this, both may be similar right now, which may be very true, and if that being the case that Armstead is in fact more experienced, right now. How do we know Armstead hasn't reached his peak, while Johnson's ceiling shows room to grow? Not saying that is the case but to me I'd rather go with the guy with the higher ceiling.


    In a situation like we're in, Realisticaly, who are 11 players you'd rather have at 11 instead of Johnson? I honestly can only think of 2 maybe 3 I'd rather have or settle for and be somewhat happy
    Dion Jordan (Over)

    Star Lotulelei (Settle)
    Chance Warmack/ Johnathan Cooper (Settle)

    Unless their name is Joeckel, Floyd, or Fisher. Every other guy could be picked apart.
     
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  28. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Where was Lane Johnson before Taylor Lewan and Jake Matthews went back to school? He wasn't even considered a top 5 OT. He's still learning the position, and as you watch his tape, he was getting bull rushed back just like Mike Harris was this past season.

    The fact zero OL coaches showed up for his pro day seems a bit worrying. They don't want to fall in love with his athleticism, they know he's gonna tear it up like he did at the combine. He's just an athletic freak. They rather resort to the game tape.

    I say we trade back. But, then that means someone has to trade up. And it will be hard to believe a team will want to trade up in this draft with no elite guy after the top 5. It's a deep class so that means a lot of players will drop.

    Terron Armstead and Lane Johnson, to me are similar. We can get a guy in the 2nd round, rather than the #11 overall pick, not reach, and probably get the same exact production from both. Joe D saw him up close, so hopefully he liked him.

    11 other players at 11? Don't know about that, again rather trade out, but I'd rather have..

    Arthur Brown ILB - Looks like Patrick Willis, who was taken with #11 overall pick by the 49ers in 2007. After his pro day, some are saying he is a top 10 talent now. He reportedly "blew it up."
    Jonathan Cooper OG/C - Could one day replace Nick Hardwick, but as of right now, he looks like he'll be an all pro OG. Rare blend of balance and quickness, also very durable, which this team has lacked on the OL.
    Star Lotulelei DE/NT - Can play in any scheme really, most dynamic DL in the draft right now. He does have the heart condition, which was detected by NFL doctors, college doctors can say what they want, it will effect his draft stock. He did recently work out and interview for the Eagles, so I don't know about him, he's a toss up.
    Chance Warmack OG - Again, another guy who is a great OG. Did play in a zone-run scheme, but wasn't asked to pull much, cause he does lack that short area quickness.
    Kenny Vaccaro FS/SS - Would anybody be apposed to having 2 Eric Weddle's playing the safety position? This guy can play both safety spots exceptionally well. He loves contact, and is a great tackler. Can play in the box, also tracks the ball well too. Was asked to line up in the slot at times and was effective there.

    I'm not saying Lane Johnson isn't going to be a great player in this league, but I'm not gonna say he isn't a reach at 11, because he is.

    Still holding onto the fact Eric Fisher falls to us. But not even sure if Lane Johnson is around at 11 anymore. Miami signing Brent Grimes, could mean there willing to trade into the top 10 to select one of the 3 LOT's.
     
  29. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Lane Johnson was always in the late 1st early 2nd round discussion, but obviously supply and demand is his best friend here, not that his game tape is bad at all. There are two big differences between Johnson and Armstead.

    1) Playing at Oklahoma vs Arkansas Pine-Bluff. We know Johnson can hold up against NFL prospects, where as I don't believe Armstead played against a single NFL prospect last year...and thats scary as hell considering he'd have to block Tamba Hali this year.

    2) Johnson is hands down the better run blocker.
     
  30. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Armstead blew up the East-West Shrine game, and he performed really well at the Senior Bowl.

    Armstead still has 37 starts at OT, while Lane Johnson has 22, and only 11 at LOT.

    Both are athletic freaks, both are gonna have trouble anchoring in the NFL. Lane Johnson would of been a late 1st rounder after his combine, but before that he was a 2nd round pick for sure.
     

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