1. Welcome to San Diego Chargers NFL Football Podcast and Forum!

    Bolt Talk is one of the largest online communities for the San Diego Chargers. We host a regular Chargers podcast during the season. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Create an Account or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

2013 draft a good start for telesco

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by mettadown, Jan 15, 2016.

  1. mettadown

    mettadown BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2010
    Messages:
    114
    Ratings:
    +29
    Telescos 1st draft was in 2013, now 3 years are in the book lets have a look at his picks:
    Rd1 D.J. Fluker
    Rd2 Manti Teo
    Rd3 Keenan Allen
    Rd 5 Steve Williams
    Rd 6 Tourek Williams
    Rd 7 Brad Sorenson

    I was just reading through Bucky Brooks 2013 draft redo and saw that he put Keenan Allen as 15th overall, D.J. Fluker 25th and Manti Teo 30th. 3 1st rounders means the chargers got significantly better than other teams as a result of that draft.

    Combine that with Jason Verrett making the probowl, rehiring Ken Wisenhunt and I'm pretty much the opposite of Chaincrusher right now.

    You can say things like what does Bucky Brooks know, and what about free agency busts like Derek Cox but Telesco has so far nailed his drafting, something we didn't have the years before he got here. Let's see what he does with some high picks.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. ETicket

    ETicket Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,050
    Ratings:
    +367
    Chain...?
     
  3. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    17,105
    Ratings:
    +3,556
    Listen I'm a homer and all, but calling DJ Fluker and Manti Te'o first round values after 3rd years is a bit ridiculous.

    Both players literally just had their worst year in the NFL so far. DJ Fluker lost the job we drafted him for (RT) which was inevitable to anyone who's ever studied college players, but he's only been a mediocre guard so far. And Te'o just gets washed out in this 3-4, although I give him a bit of a pass because our DL is so bad.

    Steve Williams is meh passable, Tourek Williams is worthless (I gave the pick an F on draft day), and Brad Sorenson has pretty much washed out. Allen is the only one who's panned out.

    After 3 years, I give it a D+.
     
  4. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,322
    Ratings:
    +302
    Yeah, it's coming.
     
  5. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,322
    Ratings:
    +302
    I disagree.

    Fluker was selected with the #11 overall pick in the 2013 draft. In a competent re-draft, there is no way that Fluker would go anywhere in the first round at all. Fluker was so poor in pass protection at RT that we had to move him inside and he really has not blossomed at RG either. He's not a total bust, but he clearly did not carry first round value.

    Te'o was the worst pick in the 2013 draft for us. Alabama did us the favor of exposing Te'o's weaknesses before the draft for an entire nation to see. And not only did we ignore what millions of people could see, we actually traded up to get Te'o when there were 4 similarly rated ILBs on the board at that time. Teams like Minnesota were drafting better ILBs than Te'o in the 4th round of the 2013 draft. Te'o is not a starting caliber NFL player. He represents bad second round value.

    And to put the cherry on top of the Te'o clusterf*ck sundae, Arizona took our 4th round pick and flipped it to the Giants, getting the Giants' 4th and 6th round picks by only moving back 6 spots in the 4th round. There was still good value on the board in the 6th round as RBs like Ellington and Latavius Murray were still on the board and we needed a #2 RB at the time. Latavius Murray in particular would have been a great late round flier pick with his physical gifts (6'2", 223 pounds, 4.38 40 time) that would have given us the bigger back that we were missing that could have combined with Mathews and Woodhead.

    Allen was a very good pick, but I also think that we as a Charger fans group overvalue Allen somewhat. He is very good and great value for the third round, no doubt about that, but part of his statistical success has come from there being an absence of other good WRs since Allen's arrival. It is no coincidence that Allen's worst year came when a then still productive Floyd and Royal were healthy for most of the year.

    As noted previously, Telesco gets an F for the 4th round since he completely unnecessarily pissed that pick away, a pick that would have turned into two picks as it turned out.

    Steve Williams as a reserve CB carries about average value for a 5th round pick.

    Tourek Williams was a terrible pick from the outset. The only thing he can do is contribute some on special teams. He was below average value for that point in the draft, but the pick was even worse because Murray and Ellington were both still on the board and we needed a RB.

    Sorenson was a wasted pick. We are not likely to find even a quality #2 QB in round 7, so why bother with picking a QB there? Had we picked Nicholas Williams, we would not have needed to trade away our #7 pick in the 2015 draft to get Lissemore.

    With the notable exception of Allen, there were two common themes in Telesco's first draft. One was that he tended to get below average value, especially in light of the players then available and the second (a theme that has continued throughout all of Telesco's drafts) was the idiotic management of draft picks and generally stupid draft strategy that could have been avoided with even a little bit of critical reasoning and common sense.

    Apart from the 2013 draft, Verrett was/is a good draft pick. He can cover people. The only reservation about him is his durability, which is why, contrary to the suggestion of some, his small nature does matter. Well, that and the occasional being bodied off by bigger receivers and giving up receptions on higher passes.

    From day one, while Telesco has made some good moves for which he does deserve credit (Woodhead, Dunlap, et cetera), his rate of error has been too high in terms of letting good players walk, FA busts and bad re-signings. This rate of error increased sharply in 2015 in particular where the bad moves far exceeded the good moves.

    Overall, the team is far worse than it was when he took over, especially on defense where Telesco has proven that he just doesn't get it. Teams like Arizona that had worse talent than we had and were picking ahead of us in the 2013 draft have gone on to become SB contenders while we are only the presence of Philip Rivers (who was already here when Telesco arrived) from being the least talented, worst team in the NFL. Hell, we are the third worst team in the NFL even with Rivers. So how good of a job could Telesco really be doing?

    And A.J. Smith scored more Pro Bowlers in each of the draft plus UDFA periods for 2003 and 2004 (five and six, respectively) standing alone than Telesco is likely produce in his entire career as our GM at the rate he is going.
     
  6. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,919
    Ratings:
    +162
    Chain you're being a little harsh there man. Fluker was never who i wanted, if we go back we can see that i said if we go o line i want chance warmack " who still woulda been a ****** pick, but thats if we went o line", Fluker had a good rookie year, then quickly fell off, but we cant write him off as a guard yet, he might show up next season and be a probowler from here on out, lets atleast give the man 1 more year to see if he can play guard.

    Teo pains me to say but he's no more than an average lb, who can cover decently, it pains me to see him take on blocks, and just be late while a rookie came in and has shined better.

    Allen, i dont think we over value him, of course his worse years are gonna be when everyone is healthy, the ball gets spread out more, but keenan is the type of dude who puts the team on his back, ala denver when he hurdled one guy then truck his way into the end zone. Allen is better than anyone could have predicted, and it can be easily said he and hopkins were the best wrs of that draft.
     
  7. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,322
    Ratings:
    +302
    I have not written Fluker off as an OG. I think there is a pretty big range between a draft bust (a write off) and not being worthy of a first round NFL draft pick (what I said about Fluker) and that Fluker falls within that range. I said that in response to OP's post that suggested that we got three first round value players in the 2013 draft.

    The reality is that Fluker is below average value for a first round pick; Te'o is horribly below average value for even a second round pick, much less a second round pick plus a 4th round pick; Allen is considerably above average value for a third round pick; S. Williams is average value for a 5th round pick; T. Williams is below average value for a 6th round pick; and Sorenson is below average value for a 7th round pick.

    I do not agree that Te'o is an average ILB. I think he is below average, a kind of player that has a place in the NFL as a reserve. Even Perryman as a young developing rookie completely outclassed him. In any event, Te'o obviously does not have the value of a first round draft pick. That's ridiculous.

    I do not see how 1 very good pick, 1 average pick and 4 below average picks, including below average picks in the first and second rounds represents a strong draft.

    I do not see how Telesco can be said to being a good job when he has caused the roster to become much worse than when he first arrived and has put together a bottom 3 quality roster due to his many, many mistakes.
     
  8. mettadown

    mettadown BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2010
    Messages:
    114
    Ratings:
    +29
    You are missing the point. That draft was terrible, remember Eric fisher n Luke joeckel who went 1 and 2 overall? For you to say we should have picked up Andre Ellington is like asking why didn't anyone choose Tom Brady or Richard Sherman. We picked 3 first rounders as per an outside source hence we did better than the other teams in that draft. I too can look at which players who were drafted after our spot and say I know better, just like I can pick every Kentucky derby winner for the last 20 years
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,322
    Ratings:
    +302
    You are the one missing the point. The outside source you cite is obviously wrong. There is no way that Allen, Te'o and Fluker are first round picks in a re-draft of the 2013 NFL draft. That thought is ridiculous. Only Allen would be a first round pick in a re-draft.

    There are 15 Pro Bowlers and Allen, so that means both Te'o and Fluker have to be in the top 16 of what is left to make the first round. They aren't and it isn't even close.

    Further, my take on Telesco's performance is not some sort of unfair hindsight. The Te'o trade was stupid the moment it was made. You do not trade up when there are 4 similarly rated ILBs on the board and there are only 7 picks to be made ahead of you. I would expect any mathematically sharp high schooler to understand that.

    Moreover, your Richard Sherman and Tom Brady examples are very bad and inapplicable. Sherman and Brady are physically limited players based upon measurables. The value that they carried entering the draft was not readily apparent. Teams passing on players with that kind of profile get a pass. The numbers do not cry out for the player to be taken in those cases.

    Latavius Murray was the polar opposite case at draft time. At 6'2" and 223 pounds, Latavius Murray ran a 4.38 time and he was still on the board in the 6th round when we took Tourek Williams and we specifically needed a big back (which was why we signed a fading Ronnie Brown) to play as the #2 RB behind Mathews with Woodhead as the 3rd down RB. Murray's measurables screamed out for him to be taken.

    In sharp contrast to Brady and Sherman, his superior physical gifts at that point in the draft stood out like a sore thumb. His known physical gifts made him a perfect late round flier pick--no real loss if he doesn't pan out, but with numbers that say "big reward" if he does.

    And if Telesco didn't know about Latavius Murray when I did at that time, then Telesco has no business whatsoever being our team's GM.
     

Share This Page