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2014 free agents

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by DenverBolt67, Nov 25, 2013.

  1. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Well, if we're back to the "receiver" issue, again, you've got to wonder why
    --between 3 different offensive coaching staffs--Seyi has 7 catches in the last 3 seasons.
    Obviously coaches aren't as enthusiastic as fans are (today, at least).
    For a while in 2010, most of us were super-excited about the guy…but the Chargers
    didn't see enough to keep him…nor did the Panthers…and here he's been on the team
    since August…and the new coaches have chosen a struggling Vincent Brown instead,
    and hardly played Ajirotutu. I mean, maybe all of that means nothing…
    but it usually means something.
     
  2. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Tutu has shown his value, and a #4(5)WR/ST player won't cost a bunch of money...... no reason not to keep him.
     
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  3. nflhof

    nflhof BoltTalker

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    What has Butler done this year? I'm not saying let him go but has he really made a significant contribution this season? He's an interesting situation, I say resign him but he's not worth big numbers IMO.
     
  4. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Has been injured, so if anything this knocks his price down. Again, he won't get Sean Lee/Brian Cushing money, but he'll make a decent amount, maybe little more than half. I think Telesco did the right thing to wait it out til the end of the year, if he truly wants to stay here he will. And for Butler's reps, with all the time he missed he couldn't afford to have on bad game (Miami) where he got steam rolled and missed a few tackles.

    But Te'o certainly isn't his replacement and we don't need to add another need to the team by letting him walk. I'd probably draft or sign another ILB to have behind him just because that groin has nagged him last 2 years.
     
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  5. Joy Division

    Joy Division Slightly-known Member

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    Going by the game against KC only, Pagano wasn't playing off coverage any more than he was playing tight with his DB's.
    Rewatch the game. To be more specific, Wright was often playing up close on his guy while Cox did give much more of a cushion. Even with that cushion though, Cox is showing us why Jacksonville didn't put up much of a fight to keep him...slow hips. The first two Chiefs scores were directly associated with Cox not getting turned in time and then basically having the best seat in the house on long passes to wide open receivers. Pagano adjusted and in came Marshall. No more bombs to a wide open split end. Marshall plays closer to his guy and Shareece seems comfortable playing close or back (when asked I assume).
    Cox is a man to man guy? That's what was advertised, but that's not what shows up on Sundays. Maybe he kicks arse in practice, but it's not translating to gameday.
    Addae should be strictly run support...as in we all know he can hit and maybe that's about it.
    Tackling issues I've never quite understood. You're a professional player on Defense and you can't tackle? That's the first thing you're taught since Pop-Warner. Still don't understand it. There's much I don't understand, I do know that... :)

    Go Bolts!:chiefssuck:
     
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  6. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Very nice analysis...
     
  7. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Yeah I have to get around to it, haven't had time to. But I've re-watched other games, and more specifically Cox has been playing off coverage, which is probably his weak point because like you said, he isn't smooth when turning the hips.

    When he has played good man to man coverage though, we didn't have a pass rush, receiver comes back to the ball, Cox has done a nice job following and reading the route, but when the receiver makes his way back or alters the route after it was covered and QB has all day, Cox is beat, almost every CB in the league would be.

    When Wright plays off coverage, he sits on the route and at the sticks, he's been decent this year without a pass rush. Again, I rather see Marcus Gilchrist as a CB than a SS, Addae sucks in coverage, don't understand it, like you said he should be strictly run support. Don't know how long we're gonna wait for Brandon Taylor to get a shot. I'm guessing he keeps Addae because he can serve a a decent back up but also he's a ST's contributor, where Taylor probably isn't.
     
  8. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Precious little to work with? Are you basing that purely off this season or off of last season as well? Because last season we were among the bottom three in the league in giving up 3rd-down conversions (up a whopping two spots from the previous year under Manusky when we were the worst in the league). The man simply isn't aggressive enough for my taste. Sadly, I think he's precisely "not-aggressive" enough for Mike McCoy's taste (he is a John "Play Not to Lose" Fox protege after all).

    Could Pagano be a serviceable DC with gobs of talent? Maybe. Does that mean he gets a pass? Sorry, but no. This league is what have you done for me lately, not what can you maybe do for me if all the pieces fall in the right way and come together. I'll be honest, I'm certainly not worried that if we fire Pagano at season's end that he's going to go on to become some stud DC on another team that we're lamenting letting walk - the way that some people still revere players like Brees and V-Jax.
     
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  9. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Certainly anyone can be replaced, but unless you have someone better to replace them with, it's simply change for change sake.
     
  10. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff BoltTalker

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    and I'm just saying that I've heard the rationale for us moving to a 4-3 many times before. IMO, the determining factor will be if we stick with Pagano or move to another DC who is more comfortable with a base 4-3. Because guess what? We are seldom in a vanilla 3-4 scheme these days - no more than any team is in a vanilla flavor of either. A really clever DC disguises his looks & moves his joker pieces around.
     
  11. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff BoltTalker

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    It's a combo of both. I'm willing to see what Pags can do with a deeper skill set, but he's made some bone headed decisions as DC as well so he doesn't get let off the hook scot free on the AJ excuse.
     
  12. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff BoltTalker

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    I feel pretty certain that we CAN find someone better & that it wouldn't be all that difficult. See Joe D as an example.
     
  13. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    I can list easily 3 candidates not in current DC positions (and then another 2 current DC's who could well be unemployed come January) who are as qualified and who I am confident can do a better job - even with limited personnel - than Pagano has. And none of them are first time DC's.
     
  14. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    We can? Sorry, but you're fairly mistaken here, if for no other reason than the single most difficult position to fill in a 4-3 is the single most important: RDE. The NCAA is producing far, far more undersized pass-rushers who can reasonably convert to playing out of a 2-point stance and rush as a 3-4 OLB than they are guys who are big enough, strong enough, and athletic enough to be impact players as a weakside pass-rusher who has to line up directly over the top of the new breed of long, athletic LOT.

    You're experiencing "grass is greener" syndrome.
     
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  15. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Do you want a gold star, or are you going to give Deano a call?
     
  16. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Ah Blue Blue in his natural state...confused and acting like a dick to compensate.
     
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  17. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Which, aside from the Indy game, I haven't seen all year.

    Pagano is too up and down for me, I was one of the people here screaming to keep him, but now that I've gotten a 2nd look at him, and also the coaching tree he's fallen from, think I'm all set and ready to move on.
     
  18. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Well, name a NT prospect outside of Louis Nix III that can come in here and start and be effective day 1? We can go the FA route, but that hasn't done us much, getting into a bidding war with another team and overpaying for underachieving performances.

    I feel Liuget and Reyes would be better set as DT's, let guys like Freeney play RDE, but draft one in this up coming draft, and play JJ and Ingram on the strong side.
     
  19. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    What do you think of Teddy Johnson? LB's coach for the Patriots, if Mike Nolan gets fired from Atlanta I would be very interested.
     
  20. Dominion Bolt

    Dominion Bolt BoltTalker

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    I'm tired of the "bend but not break" philosophy. Wouldn't it be great to watch a Bolts D that puts pressure on their opponents and pops the ball loose a couple of times a game? I know, easy to write, but it's doable. More players and a change of scheme will be necessary to get there.
     
  21. Joy Division

    Joy Division Slightly-known Member

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    I'll bite. Feel free to "list easily 3 candidates...and then another 2 current DC's..."
    that fit the prerequisites you outlined.
    I'm only asking to see if any of them match my short list...
     
  22. Joy Division

    Joy Division Slightly-known Member

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    Agreed. We saw a team like that not too long ago during Schottenheimer era that had Wade Phillips as the DC.
    While Schotty placed great emphasis on not turning the ball over, he also instilled a team culture (I assume with the aid of
    Wade) that placed immense pressure on opponents and created many take-aways by teaching every player on defense to
    go for the ball/strip it.
    Yes, it would be nice to see that kind of Defense again and we know we won't see it until, like you said,
    we get more players and a change of scheme. Not sure if a change of "scheme" is entirely needed, but a change in
    locker-room culture and believing that you will win the turnover battle every game...would go a long way.

    p.s. was always a fan of Marty's "Gold Zone". That mentality...needs to return. Stat.
     
  23. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Current Position Coaches:
    Jim Tomsula - Current 49ers Defensive Line Coach, former Rhein Fire HC & DC, former Berlin Thunder DC
    Jim Leavitt - Current 49ers Linebacker Coach, former Southern Florida HC, former Kansas State DC (back when Kansas State had perennial defenses that were in the top 5-7 of college football - i.e. the Sproles days)
    Rocky Seto - Current Seattle Passing Defense Coordinator, former USC defensive backs coach, Pete Carroll's effective apprentice

    Current DC's who could be unemployed come 2014:
    Wade Phillips - Kubiak has one foot out the door at this point, unless Bob McNair is as horribly forgiving as Spanos is. It's 50/50 as to whether a new coach will retain Wade or not.
    Mike Nolan - Atlanta's defense has gotten shredded this year for lack of proper personnel to run Nolan's schemes. He's not a sure-fire bet to get canned, but it's certainly possible and his contract may be up anyway.
     
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  24. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    No NT prospect comes in and starts Day One - the size/strength differential between college and the pro's is too great; even the best NT's rotated their rookie seasons (Hampton, Wilfork, Raji). But it's idiotic to rule out a prospect simply because he can't do that. If there's an NT with a high ceiling though, you certainly don't pass on him if he's got good value in the position you're picking in because "he's not a Day 1 starter."

    Guys who are fringe 1st rounders right now who could certainly play their way up and look capable of growing into the 3-4 NT/0-Tech role with a season's-worth of development: DeQuan Jones, Daniel McCullers (who probably has the least strength/size differential to overcome, but needs the right coach to work out some conditioning issues), I could even see some coaches wanting to turn Ra'shede Hageman into a J-Wall type 1-gapping NT (it's just a matter of getting him to add bulk so he can improve his anchor without him further weakening his conditioning). A 2-gapping NT's go, Washington's Danny Shelton is a really interesting sleeper/late-riser if he declares as is Arkansas State 5th-year-senior Ryan "Hulk" Carrethers.

    Starting-capable veteran NT's actually aren't that expensive on the FA market - mostly because teams are rarely terribly eager to invest length contracts and big guaranteed money to guys who rarely hit their strides until their late 20's/early 30's at which point their bodies are much more at risk of breaking down from the wear and tear. Ryan Pickett is an FA who could likely be had on a cheapish one-year deal once he finds out the market isn't great for a guy his age. Same with Randy Starks who the Phins have yet to extends after franchising this year (could end up in a situation similar to where Aubrayo Franklin ended up with the Niners). Kenrick Ellis got beat out for his starting spot this year by Damon Harrison in New York and could become a cap-casualty as the Jets seem to be constantly in cap-Hell.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2013
  25. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    You really think he'd listen to me? Because I don't. I'm simply saying, don't defend someone on the basis of "Well, until they're replaced and we see whether or not an alternative is better, we can't know for sure." Is that a factual statement? Yes. Is it still semantics and rampant poltroon behavior (yes, I'm using big words now... where's my damn gold star? :devilish:)? Absolutely. The same statement could have been made about Fat Teddy or Manusky or Steve Crosby's special teams unit that cost us Rivers' best offensive season to date amounting to nada. Doesn't change the fact that it was rather apparent there were better options available.

    Believe me, if I thought Dean Spanos actually valued the opinions of fans that put in the effort to be quite informed and who speak regularly with individuals who have worked in NFL front offices and still have contacts in those front offices (thus are able to give informed opinions on how certain individuals are viewed in a league context), I would. Dean only really cares about Dean's opinion though. Dean was the one who made Pagano's retention contingent on the hiring of prospective HC candidates (not the first time he's allowed something like this to happen either) out of some sense of "loyalty" to a coach that has been with the club since the Marty days. I can appreciate his idealism, but idealism alone doesn't fix a team.
     
  26. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Wait........... I'm sure I had one lying around somewhere....... OK, here it is........

    [​IMG]
     
  27. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I like Danny Shelton as a rotational guy, DaQuan Jones will be gone by the time we're picking in the 2nd. And Daniel McCullers intrigues me, but I have to watch some tape on him.

    I think we need an OLB/OT/CB more than a NT, though. I think if we can draft one later on, and sign a veteran in FA that would be the ideal situation.

    Paul Soliai is my favorite on the FA market, along with Randy Starks and Earl Mitchell (restricted). But would the Jets really cut Kenrick Ellis to save just under $800K? I like Ellis as well, but I don't think he'll be a cap casualty in NY.
     
  28. Joy Division

    Joy Division Slightly-known Member

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    3 matches from my short list.
    Nolan/Leavitt/Phillips. My preference/rank order...
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2013
  29. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    And we'd be in the same situation we're in right now or were last season. Late(r) round NT's by and large do not develop into starters. It's a huge rarity - much like mid/late round QB's doing so. Size/speed/strength come at a premium that you have to pay if you want to get them. And I wholeheartedly disagree that CB is a bigger need than NT because that is one position you most definitely can unearth capable starters in the mid to late rounds (track record is concrete). Moreover, if you've got a high-end front seven you don't need much more than average CB's - there's a reason why the teams that have said front sevens don't spend massive amounts retaining those CB's - they realize that the pass-rush is making the DB look better than they really are. They'll sign them to team friendly extensions if the guys bite, but they won't pay them Top 10 at their position money. You want to draft an NT that's actually starting quality? 90% of the time you're going to have to a high-ish pick to get one.

    Earl Mitchell is hot garbage - he hasn't done squat in Houston despite playing next to the single most dominant DL in the game (and a not so shabby one in Antonio Smith right next to him). Once Cushing (who was the safety valve in the run-game behind Mitchell) went down, Mitchell's deficiencies in the run-game were exposed (both years).

    Also, I'm hearing rumblings that Louis Nix may have a knee concern that could push him down the order a bit. And for the record, most NT's are rotational guys. If the team doesn't go to more of a 2-downed linemen set on obvious passing downs, more often than not the NT is going to rotate out in dime (and some nickel) packages with guys like Liuget, Reyes, and Lissemore (and Guy if he's retained) manning the DT spots.

    Also, there's no guarantee DaQuan Jones is gone by the time we pick in the 1st (assumedly 13-18 range if we don't make the playoffs). Plenty of folks were projecting Jonathan Hankins and John Jenkins to be gone by early 2nd round this year and both lasted to 16th pick in the 2nd round and 19th pick in the 3rd round respectively. Guys that are viewed as more strictly 3-4 NT's (thus scheme-limited) tend to slide unless some off-kilter 4-3 DC gets a hair up their butt that they can force-fit them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2013
  30. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Hey, I wanted Poe, but (as usual) my guy was gone before we picked. Same goes for Watt the year before. :(

    Of course, if I was like some fans around here, I'd just pray for us to lose the rest of our games to improve our draft slot. ;)
     
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