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2016 NFL Draft

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by JohnnyX, Sep 27, 2015.

  1. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

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    Is there any tank worthy Draft Picks?
     
  2. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Marcus Mariota is a'ight.

    Oh wait. No.

    Depression has me wondering if we should have just traded Philip Rivers and Eric Weddle this offseason.
     
  3. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

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    I like Goff from Cal, Hackenberg from Penn State and Cook from MSU, but my money is on Rivers contract forces we go Oline. I think the window has officially closed for Rivers to win a SB with this team. Some of it is his fault and other parts the management.

    This team is a far cry from loaded 2004-2009 squads.
     
  4. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I just feel bad for Hackenburg. Guy can't get **** for pass blocking, so it's impossible to tell if he's improving or regressing or whatever...because he's just running scared.

    However it's irrelevant because we just paid Rivers. Unless we end up with a top 5 pick, and Rivers just has a horrendous season and we feel the need to draft his eventual replacement, none of these guys are targets.
     
  5. Bleeding Lightning Bolts

    Bleeding Lightning Bolts BoltTalker

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    I'm ok with taking a late round flier on Trevone Boykin
     
  6. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

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    What about DE or NT? The ole miss player Nkeimich is big time player. Or maybe another as Ingram and Attaochu look like straight up BUSTS
     
  7. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    His line can't block but he has absolute crap for feel for the game and internal-clock. He's taking sacks he shouldn't be, because he holds onto the ball too long - which honestly makes me question his intelligence because... dude, it's obvious to everyone under the sun (and probably the mole people underground) that your OL sucks.

    This QB class is relatively ho-hum. It'll be supremely lucky if it turns out to be another 2014 or 2008 class - no real "world beaters" to come out of it, but at least a couple of above-average starters. Sadly, I think Hack may end up entering the league already at that David Carr (or more current example, Eagle Sam Bradford) stage where he's just so skittish about getting teed off on by defenses because of poor pass-blocking that he rushes all of his throws and teased being irreparable. He's certainly not going to be someone who can be depended on to be a Day 1 starter as is the new standard in the NFL.
     
  8. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I'm actually a Connor Cook fan. He has the prototype size and a big arm, but more importantly he's got that "it" factor in the pocket. You can tell he's comfortable making his progressions, and he isn't a chicken **** like Alex Smith, he's not afraid to thread a needle every once in a while. He's also deceptively athletic, he's not a statue in the pocket, although he does get the Philip Rivers happy feet every once in a while.

    His step from 2014 to 2015 looks like it has him playing smarter as well, he's started dropping the ball to his outlets more often and avoiding those costly picks. If I had to make a comparison, I'd say maybe Matt Ryan. I think he could develop into that type of player.
     
  9. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    I think we stand a better chance at seeing a DE than an NT again. I mean... let's face it, despite the fact that we all see it as a need, the front office clearly seems to think that a lineman they're going to rotate heavily (as is done with the majority of 2-down run-stuffers) isn't worth an early pick.

    I also wouldn't call Ingram and Attoachu "busts" - especially Attaochu. Are they Justin Houston? No and few are. We're still lacking a true power-to-speed guy (since Attaochu looks like he may end up being purely a speed-rusher), but those don't exactly grow on trees either. This edge-rushing class is questionable after Bosa and largely dependent on who declares because the seniors are iffy (I've got too many question marks on Floyd out of Georgia to feel comfortable sinking a 1st on him).

    It's a really good year for 5-Techs, and guys who could potentially play the nose in time. Beyond just Nkemdiche, Buckner is reportedly the most highly-thought-of senior DL by NFL scouts (heard this from multiple sources), Robinson out of Alabama, Clark out of UCLA (who I'm lower on than some, but he has the tools so I can see why folks are as high on him), Adams out of Auburn, Zettel out of Penn State, and one of my favorites, Andrew Billings out of Baylor (guy's just a straight HOSS in every sense of the word and athletic enough that he was chasing down RB's from behind).
     
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  10. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    My only worry with Cook is that I don't believe he's got the necessary velocity on his throws to be great. He's very Andy Dalton-esque. A QB good enough to help get you to the playoffs, but not someone who can be leaned on to win you those kind of high-profile games.
     
  11. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    A few players I'd like another opinion on...

    SS/OLB Su'a Cravens - Worth a 1st round pick?
    OLB Myles Jack
    DE DeForest Buckner
    TE Hunter Henry - Is he the next Travis Kelce?
     
  12. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Buckner is a monster.
    Not on the Myles Jack train. Guy has the Marcus Lattimore syndrome.
     
  13. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Cravens, I like him. I don't know that I like him for us unless we swap out Pagano for a DC that runs a 4-3 or a 4-3 Under. He's very similar to Shaq Thompson from this past year's draft, where he's going to feature largely as a LB on most teams unless they've got a top-notch centerfielder type FS.

    Jack's a major project. Now granted, I said the same thing about Anthony Barr and he's done well, but Barr exhibited a better understanding of scheme than Jack has.

    Buckner's a beast who a lot of people are sleeping on because Oregon's defense is largely mediocre this year. But what wasn't talked about by the major media, that should have been, was that in the Oregon/Michigan State game, Buckner spent the majority of the second half straight up bullying Jack Conklin.

    Henry's someone I really like, but I have a lot of trouble seeing this FO spend the requisite pick high enough on this particular position. That said, stranger things have happened and if he slides to the 2nd, we could see an unexpected but pleasant surprise pick similar to Perryman this year.

    I won't be surprised to see us spend an early (first 3 rounds) pick on a WR. Floyd's retiring at the end of the season, we've got Stevie and he's looked good (though ideally suited to be able to line up on the same side as KA allowing them to rotate the X and Z spots to exploit mismatches), but past him Jacoby's been largely a bust, Inman is capped as far as ceiling (good reserve, meh-starter), and you simply can't put all your eggs in the Tyrell Williams basket. I expect them to prioritize getting KA locked up, but won't be shocked to see them draft insurance (as it also might help make it more enticing to KA to stick around - i.e. less attention on him from opposing defenses).

    Also... likely not a Day 1 or maybe even Day 2 look, but I'll probably be really surprised if we don't draft another OT in 2016. Barksdale's been solid but nothing really to write home about - and on a 1-year deal. Fluker's still battling injuries on the regular and they've shown a willingness to move him inside if they feel they have a comparable option to line up beside him. And while we just extended Dunlap, he continues to have concussion issues, we continue to have OL-getting-injured-regularly issues, and keeping an eye toward the future of having Dunlap's eventual successor on the roster would be smart. And frankly, especially given the second item there, I don't think any of us should be upset if draft picks are spent on OL or the trenches, period. Because we're constantly in need of them.
     
  14. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I too think we will take a WR early in next years draft. I am interested to hear what you think about the following:

    Laquon Treadwell
    Josh Doctson
    Will Fuller-


    Late rounders:

    Nelson Spruce
    Josh Reynolds
     
  15. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    I usually put off WR's until last on my watch list because there's a ton of shake out - and I typically like to establish my DB's list first then have a chance to see, where possible, how WR prospects play against the DB's I have ranked highly and the ones who I've identified have clearly exploitable deficiencies.

    I'm not confident Treadwell is a world-beater, he's got some Brandon Marshall to his game but he isn't great at separation. To me he's a much better version of Jaelen Strong from this past year's class (albeit with far superior hands to Strong's), but has some of the same deficiencies (lack of sharpness in his route-running, lacks legit "deep speed", has some effort concerns, can get caught in traffic). If a team can clean-up his route-running, which he has the physical ability to do - i.e. he can sink the cuts, he just doesn't often do it; same goes for selling his fakes - his absolute floor is a rich man's Malcom Floyd, but like I said, he could develop into a Brandon Marshall (maybe a tad slower).

    I like Doctson a lot - he and Michael Thomas are my two top-rated guys - I don't necessarily expect him to get the hype as some of the other guys who are more the "sexy prototype" of a Julio Jones (Doctson ain't no 6'3", 195 like he's billed, probably closer to high 6'1"/low 6'2 and 185), but I liken Doctson to have the ability to continue his development into a better version of TY Hilton (and Hilton was another guy I was way higher on than a lot of people). Detractors are going to call him another Tavon Austin, but that's just a flat out wrong eval (one I'd call ignorant, TBH). He's kind of this whacko mixture of bits of Antonio Brown and Randall Cobb. Definitely not the finished product, but he has that kind of potential if he can continue to fill his frame out and improve his ability to separate versus press-coverage. He's someone I'd feel comfortable taking in the mid/late 1st round, but feel like he'll probably take a Randall Cobb/Devin Smith type slide to Round 2.

    Will Fuller doesn't crack my Top 10 guys - or if he does it'll be at the 10-spot with Dhaq Williams showing himself to be another special-kind-of-stupid player. But that's fine because I'm not convinced he'll declare. Notre Dame has a good track record of keeping players to full-term and I honestly think they stand a decent chance of selling a legit run at a Natty in 2016 to get guys to come back (between getting Malik Zaire coming back and having, IIRC, Ohio State on their schedule - that might be TCU that does and not ND, but I don't recall - they've got selling points for a strong case to the playoff selection committee next year).

    I love me some Tyler Boyd, but I don't know if I love his fit for us. He's got a lot of Keenan Allen in him - particularly with regard to his floor, his pro-readiness, and his crisp route-running. While the idea of two KA's is enticing, typically you do like to have some diversification among your WR corps in case one type of guy isn't finding success against a defense/scheme, I have the odd fear that if we end up with a younger, cheaper version of KA that might just give our FO too much of an excuse to let Keenan walk if he doesn't give a hometown discount.

    For the reasons of fit to us meeting talent, I love Michael Thomas and Mike Williams - particularly over the likes of guys like DeRunya Wilson and Treadwell - just because they're legit deep-threats who show the sense to be able to work underneath and on comeback routes to produce in the short- and mid-level game as well.

    I need to watch more of Spruce - he only came onto my radar recently - but in my notes I do have that he looks more suited to the slot than the boundary as a pro. With carrying KA and Stevie over into next season, unless we're planning for life after Stevie, I'm not sure how great the fit is there, but I'll definitely look more into him.

    Need to watch more of Reynolds too, since most of my tape time for him has been spent on Ricky Seals-Jones (for good reason). For the moment he looks like a JAG - but I'm also quite liberal with that term (often deservedly so). I haven't seen starter-qualities stand out to me on tape yet, and while he hasn't gotten a ton of targets, typically starter traits have a habit of reaching out through the TV, grabbing you by the nosehairs, and pointing your face right at them.
     
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  16. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    What about this kid Demarcus Robinson kid out of Florida?
     
  17. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Another on my list of guys I need to take a closer look at. Hands looks solid from what my notes from last season tell. Speed doesn't look like it's quite what's billed. He has some focus/concentration issues. And I know he recently picked up a character red-flag for a suspension for violating team rules (have to look more into that).

    This whole class is shaping up to have a fair amount of what I'm coming to call "1B" receivers; that being guys who aren't "according to Hoyle" WR1's if you hold to the prototypical standard. But they're guys who seem to be trending more and more in the league of late, the kind who when paired with another 1B or even a true-1 can put up the kind of production you come to expect of a starting receiver. In a different manner of speaking, these are the guys that you expect, when the hit the open market for second-contract time, to get overpaid by less savvy teams thinking that they're getting themselves a WR1 (see Pierre Garcon, Eric Decker, James Jones).
     
  18. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    Keenan Allen isn't that true-1 for me. I mean those guys don't grow on trees, but its quite clear Allen works best out of the slot and that's probably where his future lies with this team. He wins with releases but doesn't have that burst to separate from the defender, especially deep down the field.
     
  19. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    The guy that just keeps growing on me week after week is this Elandon Roberts ILB-Houston.

    The guy is an animal.
     
  20. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I'd say WR is somewhere in our top 5 needs next year, we need a threat to take attention away from Allen. Gates being back helps a little, but the guy isn't going to play forever, and clearly Reich has no clue how to incorporate Green in the same offense even though he's more of a WR anyway. Floyd isn't affective anymore.

    As of today...
    C - Watt and Robinson have failed. Cameron Erving wouldn't have been the worst decision at 17.
    OT - Dunlap hasn't played well and is concussion prone, Barksdale is average, Hairston sucks.
    DE/NT - Could argue this is #1, but I do like Ryan Carrethers every time I see him in the game.
    FS - Unless Weddle is willing to take a discount I think he's gone.
    WR - Need a field stretcher like Vincent Jackson again.

    Flowers is starting to scare me too, it's looking like the Donald Butler treatment might be necessary. SS is another issue as Addae can't stay healthy, and we need a guy who can cover TEs and play in the box because our run D sucks.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2015
  21. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    I like jayron kearse from Clemson. 6 ft 5 as. Fast and can hit and cover. Pharrow Williams from usc. Is a very good return and electric player. Other than those 2 who I really like, I'm still scouting, so I'll post about the draftvlater on in the year. When I have more players I like
     
  22. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I also hate to say it, but OLB is becoming an issue again. Both Ingram and Attaochu are performing like mediocre-sub par pass rushers, and Kyle Emanuel really hasn't been any better. Their only sacks seem to come when coverage is absolutely perfect, or they are left unblocked.
     
  23. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    What's your take on these 2 guys. Not specifically for us. Just in general.


    1) Elandon Roberts ILB/Houston- Guy is a thumper, and makes plays all over he field. Would love to see this guy next to Perryman in the middle of our defense next year.

    2) Carl Nassib DE /Penn St- I could easily see this guy being a hybrid OLB in a 3-4 even though he is primarily suited for a 4-3. He has a great first step, and above average power.
     
  24. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

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    Attaochu is coming to his own and I like Emmanuel as depth. Ingram is straight up BUST and I can't stomach another LB pick. Offense wins games and I would answer the DLINE problems with some F.A and not rookie.
     
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  25. Moses

    Moses Can You Stand The Rain?

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    The silver lining with a couple of tough losses, at least we might land a decent pick. It'll probably be even higher after we needlessly trade up a couple of spots too.
     
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  26. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    Move Melvin Ingram inside ala Clay Matthews? :ninja:
     
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  27. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I don't have the resources anymore for good tape, but the typical youtube video. But as I said above Elandon Roberts is a studs, and might just be a good fit.
     
  28. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    It wouldn't be out of the question for me. But the reality is, with a pair of 2nd's spent on them, I don't see the FO (or coaching staff) for that matter giving up on the Perryman/Te'o combo until it has a chance to fail on the field together.

    That said, I can sooner see the Ingram-moves-inside bit than another remotely early pick being spent on ILB in the near future. Ultimately, I wouldn't be surprised if Emanuel ever saw reps on the interior - as that's originally where I had him projected to play in draft eval. That said (yeah, a lot of these) Clay's playing inside due to necessity (GB's had trouble keeping ILB's healthy the past two seasons) but also because the Pack had two very viable starters on the edge in Peppers and 1st-round-investment Nick Perry, once Perry finally came around.

    Also, I loathe using the term "bust" for Ingram. Has he lived up to his draft status? No. Roughly 50% of 1st rounders these days do that same thing though. Ingram, in the event his lengthy injuries are behind him - which has been the case this season, is what he is... an average starter. That's obviously not what you want out of a 1st round pick, but it's also not a straight up bust. Busts are guys who are flat-out outplayed by guys on the roster who are largely journeymen or base-average late-rounders and beat out for their spot (see Justin Hunter, Antoine Cason, Larry English, Cordarelle Patterson, Trent Richardson, and Brandon Weeden). Ingram fits into that category of a Keke Mingo, Whitney Mercilus, Quinton Coples, or Jarvis Jones where he's just not as good as his draft-position would indicate - as teams are typically expecting standout-level performances from their 1st round selections.
     
  29. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    I have to look more into Nassib. Frankly I stopped watching Penn State tape for a stretch this season because I just plain felt bad for Hack getting sacked as much as he does (though he's almost as much to blame as his OL is for that).

    Pretty sure we (and by that I mean Telesco and Co.) drafted Perryman to be the thumper (hence the whole "hammer" bit) So barring depth purposes, I don't know that they go that heavily looking for more ILB's - plus it seems they like what they've seen from Dzubnar. Butler's likely gone next season - as they can finally get out from under that contract without much, if any, major cap implication - and I'm 50/50 if they let Connor go which means he's likely at least in a position where he's playing for his roster spot in the PS. That said, if we spend any sort of pick it'll be late Day 3. More likely UDFA and we've done a decent job sniffing those out at LB (Nolan's influence I'm betting; he had a knack for that in his time with the Falcons, Niners, and Ravens). It's my own personal belief, though, that they're trying avoid these "limited" players that are only 2-down specialists - for better or worse - due to the increase in teams running hurry-up.
     
  30. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    DraftBreakdown.com is the best resource available to the general public for tape. You've typically got to know someone to get ahold of All-22's. I know a couple that have gotten me some stuff over the past couple years, but that's typically sent on file-transfer and I don't have the resources to host them myself (nor do I want to risk any legal issues of "distributing NCAA material" without consent or whatnot).
     
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