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3-1, Good Start - Lets Not Jump the Gun

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by SuperCharger92, Oct 3, 2011.

  1. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Hmmm...I don't know: losing 13 in a row,
    before 2 recent wins, doesn't seem like they're
    "always" playing all that tough against the Bolts...
     
  2. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    Progress is all I care about and there has been very little of it up to this point. The defense, at times has held their own but I have yet to see a true mean streak develop and I'm still hoping it's yet to come. Philip River's has not played well in this young season IMHO. I would like to see Gates, VJ and M-80 all play at the same time and be as injury free as possible which I do believe would help the whole offense out. Ryanna is doing very well and is ahead of expectations even in the Chargers opinion I'd like to think, he looks to become a serious weapon especially if the rest of the offense can get on the field at the same time. ST is getting better but still have a ways to go, improvement in all three areas would sure help the cause for a championship but it has to start soon.
     
  3. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Then you have stat blinders on. How many of those 13 wins came in the last minute? Or say a OT run by LT? Look at the facts along with the stats. 13 in a row does by no means indicate easy games.
     
  4. setanta74

    setanta74 Well-Known Member

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    I have us 5-2 going into the green bay game and ultimately finishing 11-5 which will be more than enough to win the division.

    I agree with those who say one game at a time though. The chargers have been consistently inconsistent in recent times and it would be foolish to focus beyond the donkeys game. Obviously we can do it but I'm sure the players dont.

    We can only beat what is laid in front of us which we have done with the 3 crappy teams so far. Yeah it hasnt been pretty but I see improvement week on week so Im optimistic.
     
  5. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Wow you go over the top fast dude, I'm just poking a little fun.

    1. I did not say your opinion doesn't matter, I just said it was wrong. And it has been.
    2. Maybe I should have accepted 909's half assed "peace offer" without further discussion, but I can't stand people who sit behind their computer and criticize an injured or fatigued player for not practicing through it, espescially when its public knowledge that the guy has been busting his *** double time to catch up.
    3. Here is the thread in question... solid proof that it was 909 who took it to the next level with the name calling.....pretty much solidifying my image of the guy, and you piling on. My determination to not let 909's archaic point of views of "no pain no gain" go free was not classless, it was you guys cussing me out that was strait trailer park.

    BTW there is no ignore button.
     
  6. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    So my opinion about Cam Thomas has been wrong? Because THAT'S what you said my in-person opinion didn't matter about. Never said that I had seen Mathews nor did I say that he wasn't a good RB. What I said about him was that I wouldn't take him,or any RB from that class, in the 1st round, particularly when we had such important defensive needs.

    I suppose I was also wrong about, as you called him, "fat-***" Terrence Cody? You know, the guy who was gonna eat himself out of the league? The guy who now starts for the Ravens' D, a perennial defensive stalwart, at 335 lbs.?

    Talking trash over players is one thing. Telling me that I don't know what I'm seeing in person is a personal insult.

    I got 2 last words for you .... blow me.
     
  7. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I don't remember the Cam Thomas conversation, but you and 909s evaluation of Ryan Mathews is well on its way to being proven completely wrong. As was the exaggerated stance on him showing up to camp "out of shape."

    Terrance Cody was a slob, but getting drafted by a good organization and playing with superstars like Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, and Haloti Ngata seems to have helped him get his head on strait. Good for him, but I wouldn't have taken the risk, and every team including the Ravens passed on him once.

    I got two words for you...grow up.
     
  8. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    I'm not going to pretend to know what your "stat blinders" are,
    but as I watched the Raiders meekly fold, 34-7 in December of '08,
    I must say, I was NOT thinking:
    "Wow! These Raiders always play the Chargers tough!"

    But if that's tough to YOU, hey, knock yourself out.

    p.s. If those games were so tough, how many of the 13 did
    the Raiders come within a field goal? (Hint: it's less than 1)
    AVERAGE margin of victory? 13.77 points...well over the
    biggest point spread this week...on AVERAGE...
    Damn stat blinders, making me think 27, 27 & 28 point
    margins weren't tough games...
     
  9. Cheapseats

    Cheapseats Loud, proud Charger fan

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    Our division opponents tend to play the Chargers hard...regardless of the win - loss records of either team. Except for last season, the Raiders haven't done well on the scoreboard against the Chargers but they have played a very physical style. (Cheap shots, late hits...the usual) In the 2009 opener a lot of our guys got injured in a 4 point win.

    I am hoping that because the Chargers have not played a truly complete game in spite of a 3 - 1 record, they will stay focused on the team in front of them and beat them on Sunday. In previous seasons I have gotten the impression that the players were reading their own press clippings and buying into the hype...and getting caught flat-footed on game day.

    Just keep improving and beating the teams on the schedule and the rest will work itself out.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. NORV4LIFE

    NORV4LIFE NO MORE NORV!!!!!

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    This Start is horrible. We should be 4-0 and we should have blown out these patriots who had an awful defense.
     
  11. Brundlefly

    Brundlefly Well-Known Member

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    Your trolling is way too obvious. Nevermind the fact that the Pats also have the best offense in the history of the league through the first 4 weeks, that couldn't have to do with it. ******* Norv.
     
  12. NORV4LIFE

    NORV4LIFE NO MORE NORV!!!!!

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    Their offense is mediocre at best. I'd be more scared of this packers offense. Its not the best in history of the league. The 49ers, 2007 pats, greatest show on turf, v98 vikings and many more were better. Besides The vikes and niners played in an era when receivers and qbs weren't treated like pansies!

    Its not trolling either. We should and could have put up 50 pts on that god awful defense.
     
  13. NORV4LIFE

    NORV4LIFE NO MORE NORV!!!!!

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    I'm not trying to blame norv on this one. Maybe he could have called better plays but we lost because of poor execution from players and if that happened no coach could win. Does that have to do with norv? I can't answer that becaus3e i'm notr at every practice.
     
  14. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Well ok, so you dont think much... Noted. Winning games by 4 points, 7 points, six points, etc. clearly is a route in your book. Well ok.

    Stat blinders, as I believe you can imagine are when someone such as yourself simply looks at the final score or final stat and ignores what happened in the game. They dont pay attention to line play, defensive turnovers or anything. You can tell because they will consider a divisional rival a push over because we won 13 straight, and did enjoy some big margines of victory in said winning streak. Fit your bill? I say so.

    See I tend to look at what is happening in the lines, how many times the QB is hit and such, but your stat blinders are happy with the average point total... You go... I will just agree to disagree with you on this one.

    You may go on ignoring the fact that conference rivals play tough against one another and thinking the Raiders will be a cream-puff push over. Lets see how that plays out. I hate the Raiders as much as anyone, but I hope to high hell the team is not dumb enough to casually ignore them as you do.
     
  15. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    [​IMG]
     
  16. bigmike.x.09

    bigmike.x.09 Well-Known Member

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    Shut the hell up :p Not even the highly held Patriots are 4-0. You know who's undefeated? The reigning Super Bowl champs (who I predict will go 6-1 heading into San Diego with a loss at Atlanta this weekend) and Detroit (who I still can't quite figure out.)
     
  17. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Wow! Do you ALWAYS insult people in hopes of hiding that you're dead wrong?
    It doesn't cover it up, you know.

    Do you always throw out stats to accuse someone else of having "stat blinders?"

    Look, the argument that I refuted was simply that the Raiders "ALWAYS" play the Chargers
    tough, which is absurd to any fan who has actually watched every game...
    and when one team team loses 13 straight by an AVERAGE of 2 touchdowns,
    including routs (yes, that's how it's spelled) of 27, 27 & 28 points. Unless you're
    going to stoop to pretending that three 4-touchdown losses were actually tight games,
    you have zero logical grounds on which to attack my post.
    You're just plain wrong.
    Trying to defend that (especially by accusing OTHERS of not thinking) is pitiful.

    P.S. No, I never said "the Raiders will be a cream-puff push over" or that I
    " casually ignore them." YOU typed both of those things...neither is anywhere
    NEAR my position. I (accurately) refuted a bogus claim, that the Raiders always
    play the Chargers tough. I was right. And proved it. Instead of admitting you were
    wrong, you made up stuff and pretended it was my position.
    I'm new to this forum, and you don't give me reason to believe that the
    level of thought here is worth interacting with...
     
  18. starry

    starry BoltTalker

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    You do realise that NFL rules over the last 10 years have meant defenses now are much weaker and offenses can walk all over them?
     
  19. Brundlefly

    Brundlefly Well-Known Member

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    Still doesn't mean the pats offense is "mediocre at best" and that we should've been a lock to beat them. Actually, he said not just beat them, but blow them out.
     
  20. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    As a poster who has but 5 posts, I would ask what your posting style shall be. Are you going to insult everyone then cry when it is returned? Are you going to consider your opinion to be the only one that should be out there? Are you going to be a spelling nazy? Are you going to respond to people in an aggressive manner then play the victim? Perhaps if as a very new poster, you let us know what to expect from you we can be better prepared to not step on your sensitive e-toes?

    Those are the questions that pop up in my mind when you start asking what my posting style is. Clearly we disagree. Your posts have clearly to me painted the picture that you feel the Raiders are cream puff push overs, and to be casually ignored. Else why would you be point to three games in a sixteen game series that were won by a large margin as your evidence?

    So you think I have no ground to argue my opinion... Really, do you feel that changes my opinion at all? I see you arguing and continuing the argument from your stat blinder point of view. Again, you are only looking at the final score of some of the games. Not a very solid ground to argue from in my opinion. However, even in those blow outs, the Chargers did not 'just put the uniform on and win.'

    Next game, try not to watch the ball. Watch the lines, watch what happens in the gaps at the LOS. That will tell you if it is an easy game or not. If your have linemen on either side of the ball being pushed backwards into the players at the next level consistently, then you know that is an easy game.

    Now please feel free to disagree with me, I honestly don't care. But do not expect me to simply agree with you because you roll in here and say "LOOK AT THE SCORES!"
     
  21. Joy Division

    Joy Division Slightly-known Member

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    So I've been reading through here and couldn't help myself from responding at this moment to this obvious miscommunication....and NO, I am not fighting anyone's battles, I just like to interfere... apparently.
    1. Lance19 has not insulted everyone unless by everyone you mean Concudan. (which after re-reading, the real insult is that there really isn't one).
    2. Why would anyone consider their opinions to be the only one out there? Conjecture at best.
    3. The spelling nazi thing can get annoying yes, but correcting the spelling of one word doesn't yet qualify. Personally, I'm the biggest spelling nazi that I know, but I only correct words that can convey more than one meaning...and I try not to do it in this forum or I wouldn't get any sleep.
    4. Passive-Aggressive styles of posting are the norm on this site, so if that's to be the case for Lance19(though I'm not catching that vibe)...then it will make itself well-known soon.
    5. The fact that Lance19 is a new poster doesn't really mean he has nothing to contribute at this point. I still consider myself rather new here and sure there have been some posters that have always argued against anything that I've posted, but over time you get to know those posting habits which makes it much easier to not take any of it personally.
    6. Now Conc, you say, "...feel free to disagree with me, I honestly don't care". I've read this statement so many times in this forum and I do believe that I've used some form of it myself at least once. If we really didn't care, we wouldn't respond by saying "feel free to disagree with me" at all. What we are really saying with this statement is "feel free to disagree with me, since I am disagreeing with you and so logically you must disagree with me. I am taking the high road but I am also letting you know that what you say in response is of no consequence to me whatsoever. You are below me. I will disregard you every other time you post something...except that i won't. You can say anything you want and I will not take it personally, except for I might but I'm too much of a man to admit it (which in a way contradicts itself)".

    Now that I've not cleared up anything, I'd have to agree with Conc that the effin Raiders always (the last 15 meetings) play us tough. Yes, the Chargers have a 13-2 advantage in win/loss, but they've never just "given up" anytime during any of those games. We had Schotty and LT in most of those game and they both took personal pleasure in ruining the moral of the Raiders. Many of those games were close, not just on the scoreboard but "on the lines/ backfield/ etc." I've watched all of those games and never saw the Raiders give up or not play tough (excluding Randy Moss).

    Not that my opinion was asked for, but nonetheless..this is a public forum. I suggest you two go to opposite sides of the room and you can either touch gloves before the next round...or not...it's up to you.
    Anyway, Lance19...welcome to the forum and Concudan...you need a vacation.:broncossuck:
     
  22. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Thank you for posting your views on the topic. Feel free to disagree with me, I honestly don't care. :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  23. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Okay, I give up. You continue to state straw man positions you fantasize me holding,
    though I never said them and clearly refute them.

    You continue to argue that one-sided games decided by 27 & 28 points were
    in fact "tough" games. (I didn't cite just 3, I pointed out the MASSIVE average of nearly 14 points!!) Maybe it's terminology: If you use "tough" to describe 4-touchdown blow-outs,
    then when you say "This Broncos game will be tough"
    I should just understand that you mean 13-10, but also 35-7? (in which case
    describing a game as tough, will just come to be meaningless).

    You insult me for pointing out that you're just flat-out wrong.

    Yeah, if this IS the level of discussion in here (and inability to admit you're wrong)
    then I will spend my posting time elsewhere. If THIS exchange is really indicative
    of your 38,000+ posts, then no, I'm not going to be satisfied here.

    p.s. I had a few thousand very well-liked posts on the old UT system, but
    decided not to continue after their Facebook requirement. I may be new to
    you, but few have followed the Chargers as closely over 4 decades...
    I really don't need rookie advice like "watch the lines." The bottom line is
    that I saw every snap of every one of those 13 straight wins, and more than
    1 or 2 of those games were out-and-out mismatches. And yes, the scores
    often reinforce that fact. The Raiders look much improved this year, and
    should be feared. But that doesn't lead me to re-invent the past.
     
  24. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    I appreciate your attempt at a sober summary...and agree with most of it.

    However, I would still contend that if calling 4 touchdown romps "tough games"
    is to become the norm, the term will soon become meaningless. And if merely
    "not giving up" is to become the criteria, then nearly all NFL games will be
    classified "tough," since these guys are all highly paid, highly skilled professionals
    who play with pride AND an eye on their next contract. THIS year the Raiders
    really HAVE looked a lot scarier than anytime in the last ~9 years...
    but to call some of those 13-game-streak laughers "tough" just to get up for this
    season, doesn't make sense to me. It cheapens the term to the point of it
    being virtually worthless. Just my 2 cents. Oh, and you're right: That I just began
    posting HERE means nothing...long time obsessed fan with thousands of
    (pretty well-received) posts (at UT, PFT etc.) elsewhere. Again, I appreciate the effort.
     
  25. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    So to sum up your position is "If you dont agree with me you are 100% wrong and cant admit is..."

    Right... Keep trying jimbo...
     
  26. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Don't let conc ruin this place for you. He makes a religion out of being wrong. Your statement was dead on.

    The facts back you up.
     
  27. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Love it. I point out your tendency to play the "straw man" card...
    and you respond with...yet another straw man
    (no, your "sum up" is not remotely MY position...evidently you can't HELP makin' stuff up)
    On the UT boards I had a "three strikes" policy for guys who just couldn't
    manage to respond intelligently to me, or resist repeatedly mis-stating my position...
    I do not have unlimited patience or time for such failure. Concudan, this is your second strike.
    Misrepresent what I've posted one more time and I will no longer bother to read your responses,
    never mind respond. It's not hard: just, next time you're typing something made up,
    and trying to put those words in someone else's mouth, stop before hitting "Post Reply"
     
  28. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Thanks, boltssbbound.

    I hope his first posts to me are just an 'off day' and not indicative of the general level
    of discourse here. I did note that his % of "likes" is far, far lower than yours, which
    suggests (though obviously doesn't prove) that his peculiar brand of logic is not
    particularly admired here. A good sign. Your sober post is appreciated.
     
  29. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    No straw man card what ever that is. You have posted in every post, saying that I am wrong, you are saying I am totally wrong and lacking logic simply because I disagree with your opinion. How am I misinterpreting your posts?

    Your position has been that the Raiders were 'easy' games. They did not play us at tough all because three of the sixteen games were blowouts. That is straight from your posts. You go on to say that I am wrong, and have no logic. So my 'sum it up' was dead on the target. I simply disagree with you on the point that the Raiders do not play us tough. What seems to stick in your craw is that I have the audacity to disagree with you. Am I incorrect?

    I like your three strike rule, please feel free to use it. If you dont respond to me that is fine, from the tone of your posts we are not destined to have a lot of meaningful conversations because I don't do 'your way or the highway' very well. You have not built any sort of reputation here that makes me care if you want to carry on conversations. So please, seriously, please consider this my last strike. I will feel no poorer for it.

    If you don't want people reading what you post and telling you what it is you are saying... "stop before hitting "Post Reply"....
     
  30. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    You're right. I'm new here. And yes, it would be wrong to compare your 38,000 posts
    to my 12, or your "Likes" for every 18 posts to my "Likes" for every 6. ;)

    If you don't understand straw man,
    http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html
    http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-straw-man-argument.htm
    then I probably WILL need to put you on the "Don't bother to reply to" post-it of shame.

    I've been on this board less than a week, and already you've bombarded me with
    nonsense "straw man" arguments. Let's look:

    A) You claimed the Raiders "always" play the Chargers tough
    B) I politely pointed out that a one-sided 13-game losing streak is far, far from "always" tough.
    C) You (the one who introduced the "rude") accused me of having mysterious "stat blinders on."
    D) I responded that even if one or two games in a 13 game streak could be stat
    abnormalities (maybe one team scores 14 points at the end of a game, making a close
    game appear to be a mismatch) that won't hold up for 27 & 28 point games, and a
    stunning 13.77 ppg average margin.
    E) You cleverly responded that I "dont think much." Yeah...and you were the one who
    later tried to imply that I was too rude for your delicate sensibilities.

    Then the parade of CONCUDAN STRAW MAN ARGUMENTS:
    1) You said I consider 4 point games "routes."
    [of course I never said any such thing...to disprove "always" you only need 1 example...
    I gave many more than that, a high average, and 4 td routs]
    2) You said I think "...the Raiders will be a cream-puff push over."
    [of course I never said any such thing...that's why you made up your 'cream puff'
    thing, rather than quote me. My ACTUAL position is that the Raiders are the best
    they've been in a long time...so close to the Chargers that home field would probably determine
    who the favorite is]
    3) You claimed that I "casually ignore" the Raiders.
    [of course I never said any such thing...that's why you made it up rather than quote me.
    Again, your imaginary position for me was a lousy, lousy guess]
    4) You then claimed that I "think (you) have no ground to argue (your) opinion."
    [of course I never said any such thing...everyone can advance any cockamamie opinion
    they want. My point was that since the Charger routs of the Raiders are now out in the
    open, the claim that these are "always" tough games is ridiculous (unless we just decide
    ALL games will be called "tough" and make the word meaningless). And that's why you
    resort to straw man arguments. Because your initial comment has been revealed to lack
    merit].
    5) You said that MY position is "If you dont agree with me you are 100% wrong."
    [of course I never said any such thing...lots of things I say in here will be pure opinion,
    and I pop in to hear other peoples' opinions. I have no problem with other views...I
    welcome them. But That doesn't mean that I have to pretend that a one-sided 13 game
    streak wasn't what it was, just because I remember it better than someone else.]
    6) You said that my position "...has been that the Raiders were 'easy' games."
    [of course I never said any such thing...some were some weren't. But in a rivalry that
    the Raiders have dominated, recent history has been the opposite...Chargers not only
    holding their own, but dominating the Raiders to the tune of 13 straight games by an
    amazing two touchdown average. Not a close series this decade, and certainly not
    "always" tough. Not even close.]

    And 2 or 3 other things you've typed about me are simply NOT my position.

    Look, Concudan, I'm more than happy to defend ANYTHING I write in this forum,
    but I do not have the patience or time to defend everything you MAKE UP and try to
    attribute to me. You've already done this over a half dozen times, so maybe you just can't
    help it, but I will not repeat myself over and over ("Concudan, that's NOT what I said!")
    As I see it, you have 2.5 strikes, and are giving me no reason to believe that I can discuss
    anything with you, without having to repeatedly point out you misrepresenting my position.
    Be nice if you could prove me wrong, but right now, no, the King of the Straw Men is
    not likely to get along with this long-time Charger fan (who's spent much of his life teaching Logic).
     

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