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4 Round Mock v2.0

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by Boltjolt, Mar 26, 2011.

  1. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    I know this site is pretty dead which is disapointing compared to what it once was so ill give it a conversation piece. I did this last week and always post it in the KFFL draft section every year to get opposing fans feedback and then put it other Charger forums so (some of you already know this) so lets hear what you think!


    Mock Draft v2.0


    Round 1


    1.Carolina - Marcell Dareus, DT/DE/ Alabama
    This right now is the toughest pick in the draft. No QB worthy here imo and I think Clausen is just as good with a year under his belt. Ron Rivera likes defense specializing in a 4-3 with 3-4 experience to mix it up. Dareus fits the bill. Im just not sold by reports that Newton is looking like their pick at this time. Need more evidence. It is crazy having some QB’s in a draft that have had a lot of pub and a DL go #1 so im not convinced it will happen with the history of GM’s reaching for QB’s in the past but I have one more mock to go still.

    2.Denver – Nick Fairley, DT/ Auburn
    Denvers defense has been in shambles and though I had Peterson here in my last mock, They have sinse resigned Champ where that was a question for me before. I think they could go DL now.

    3. Buffalo – Blaine Gabbert, QB/ Missouri
    Dont think he is #3 worthy and he wont be better than Fitz but teams will go for that potentual franchise QB. Gabbert dont float my boat though.

    4. Cincinnati – Cam Newton, QB/ Auburn
    I believe Palmer is gone in Cinci . They haven’t shown to be a smart organization over the years and though Newton hasn’t come off as the smartest guy when asked basic football questions, it just seems to me that the owner has the final word and is why I think Marvin Lewis is stupid for staying there because it makes him look bad. Newton has some talent, im not saying that but I think it is going to take him some time to be a good NFL QB …if he ever is one.

    5. Arizona – Von Miller, OLB/ Texas A&M
    I truly believe Arizona will get a QB via a trade. Palmer, Kolb, or even Bulger. Then they need pass rushers badly. Joey Porter was awful and is getting up there (34). Miller is undersized but Wisenhunt saw an undersized Harrison do well in Pittsburgh. I think Miller fits a 4-3 best but that’s not to say a 3-4 team wont draft him.

    6. Cleveland - AJ Green, WR/ Georgia
    They have a young WR group but nobody who has star quality. Robiske and Massaquoi are the starters with Cribbs in the mix. Green adds a lot to their group and gives McCoy a weapon.

    7. San Francisco – Patrick Peterson, CB/ LSU
    They could also trade for Kolb or somebody which is a better option than going QB here. Their secondary was not good last season and Clements contract calls for a ton of money the next two seasons in which he is declining. He will probably get released.

    8. Tennessee - DaQuan Bowers, DE/ Clemson
    Just don’t think after what happened with Vince Young that the Titans will draft Newton and his Dad or consider Mallet here which he shouldn’t be anyways this early.

    9. Dallas – Prince Akukamara, CB/ Nebraska
    Could go a couple of ways here. Doug Free could be a FA but of course we have to wait for a new CBA , and Columbo has been unjured a lot and is 32 so OT could be the pick as it was last time around for me. But, Prince is on the board and the Cowboys secondary can use a big boost. Been hearing about concerns with Newman and Jenkins just wasn’t that solid last season.

    10. Washington- Julio Jones, WR/Alabama
    Could go QB but IMO Locker isn’t worth it here and don’t know if Newton is a Shanahan type of guy. They can use a playmaking WR though as Santana Moss is set to be a FA.

    11. Houston- Robert Quinn, DE/OLB North Carolina
    Needing to build a 3-4 defense for Wade, they go with a player who fits a need at OLB. Quinn fals a bit because of the benign tumor in his head even though he has had it since High School.

    12. Minnesota- JJ Watt, DE/Wisconsin
    Another team I believe could be working to get a vet via a trade with Kolb, Palmer, etc. So with Newton and Gabbert gone, they opt for a pass rusher opposite Jared Allen.

    13. Detroit- Nate Solder, OT/ Colorado
    This was a tough one. Too early for the next CB so ill go OT.

    14. St. Louis – Corey Liuget, DT/ Illinois
    Had a hard time chosing a player here. No WR worthy and there are severance l players to choose from. Luiget has been rising and I think he is a bit high here but regardless, I think the pick could happen.

    15. Miami- Mark Ingram, RB/ Alabama
    Everybody’s choice for this pick. Id like to do something different but Ronnie Brown is a FA, has been injury prone and Ricky is heading downhill in his career though he has still been productive. I think Miami will be a team to get a vet QB in a trade. Sparano barely kept his job so he cant afford to start over with a rookie.

    16. Jacksonville – Ryan Kerrigan, DE/Purdue
    Seems Jaxsonville picks a DE for every year. They’ll keep doing it til they draft one that works out for them and Kerrigan should be one that works for them.

    17. New England (from Oakland)- Tyron Smith, OT/USC
    IMO, OLB and OT are the top needs with DE in there someplace but they still have some talent there though Gerrard Warren is a 10 year vet now. But so is Matt Light so im going to give the nod here to Smith who is now at 307 lbs.

    18. San Diego- Cam Jordan, DE/ Cal
    The Chargers have two DE’s under contract and doubt they resign Travis Johnson or Cesaire. Everyone knows I am a big Justin Houston fan so this is quite a dilema for me with him being on the board but with Jordan availbale im going to pick him here with very well knowing that Houston could be the pick as I very strongly believe the Chargers will pick a OLB early in this draft.

    19. New York Giants - Anthoney Canstanzo, OT/Boston College
    The G-Men are a team with no glaring needs but can use a young OT . Kareem McKenzie is going into his 11th year so getting some quality youth is a plus. I had Ayers here last time but think he will fall some.

    20. Tampa Bay - Adrian Clayborn, DE/ Iowa
    I had Aldon Smith here last time and he could still be the pick but ive been reading conflicting reports from different unknown GM’s about what they think of him. Some love him, some not so much. Don’t know where Tampa sits in this but ill give them Clayborn here.

    21. Kansas City - Justin Houston, OLB/Georgia
    Needing a pass rusher on the outside, KC adds Houston who imo is the best 3-4 OLB in this draft.

    22. Indianapolis – Gabe Carimi, OT/Wisconsin
    Polian saying he should of picked an OT instead of Jerry Hughes kinda says they need a OT and their starting LT is Charlie Johnson.

    23. Philadelphia – Brandon Harris, CB/Miami(FL)
    I believe Ellis Hobbs career is over which will leave a hole in the secondary as far as talent goes.

    24. New Orleans- Aldon Smith, DE/ Missouri
    In need of one, possibly two OLB’s but no value here for one so ill put Aldon Smith here and assume New Orleans is one that loves him but I really have no idea ;) I had Luiget here for them last time.

    25. Seattle – Jake Locker, QB/Washington
    OK, I have to say that I don’t think Locker is a first round talent but Hasselbeck has one foot out the door and another on a banana peel. He has a bad back and is 36 but has just enough time to tudor the rookie for a season so im sure Pete Carroll has been in deep contact with his former OC Steve Sarkasian about Locker and me thinks Steve will give a thumbs up so this pick I think is very realistic.

    26. Baltimore – Jimmy Smith, CB/Colorado
    Big CB who gives the Ravens some much needed help. Don’t know if he can win a starting job right away but they really need some talent there. Smith is said to have issues but his college coach says he was never a problem with him.

    27. Atlanta – Derek Sherrod, OT/ Mississippi st
    Atlanta needs a RT and where Sherrod wil start his career. I think DE is a bit of a bigger need but didn’t quite like a fit there but did almost put Jabaal Sheard there.

    28. New England – Jabaal Sheard, OLB/ Pittsburgh
    Needing that 3-4 OLB to help their pass rush, Sheard moves up my board some. Solid player and had a solid combine.

    29. Chicago – Stephen Paea, DT/ Oregon st
    Bears cut Tommy Harris and though Paea is short, he is real strong and a good penetrator and fits better in a 4-3 imo. No OT worth this pick right now.

    30. New York Jets – Cameron Heyward, DE/ Ohio st
    Age at DE is about the only need for their defense. Heyward is a good fit so the Jets just restock another position.

    31. Pittsburgh- Mike Pouncey, OG/Florida
    My two choices here are OL and NT for them. Been hearing rumors of the Steelers wanting to draft their OC’s brother so ill do it here to get the reaction from Steeler fans at KFFL when I post this. Otherwise id pick Phil Taylor for them.

    32. Green Bay- Mikel Leshoure, RB/ Illinois
    Been trying to find another pick here but im coming back to the same one I had before. Grant I been hearing isn’t a lock to return and doubt Jackson or Starks is going to be the starter for them .
     
  2. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Round 2


    33.New England(from Carolina)- Muhammad Wilkerson, DT/DE/ Temple
    Wilkerson is good value here as he has been rising from hype but don’t think he will go as high as most say.

    34.Buffalo – Akeem Ayers, OLB/UCLA
    No OT’s worthy here and imo Ayers isn’t either but some think he is going to be a good player. Im not high on him and think he lacks burst.

    35.Cincinnati – Christian Ballard, DE/Iowa
    Needing to fix their pass rush which was awful last year, they select Ballard who is a better value than any safetyies imo at this point.

    36.Denver- Kyle Rudolph, TE/Notre Dame
    Daniel Graham was the starter who probably will get released now if he hasn’t already and there isn’t much behind him at TE.

    37.Cleveland- Phil Taylor, DT/Baylor
    Not their biggest need but I think the best value to add a DL who can play either NT or DE and give them two big guys with Rubin at either NT or DE though Rubin was the NT last season. My other option here that I was thinking was Marvin Austin.

    38.Arizona – Danny Watkins, OG/ Baylor
    Im still going by my theory that they get a Vet QB instead of drafting one. I believe AZ is for sure one team that does this.

    39.Tennessee – Christian Ponder, QB/ Florida st
    New HC and id think he would maybe want a vet QB so im guessing what they do, so I have them take Ponder who has shown very well during the senior bowl all the way thru the combine and prodays.

    40.Dallas - Stefen Wisniewski, OC/ Penn st
    Dallas has both OG’s and their OC who are going into their 10th or 11th seasons and Wisniewski can play both positions.

    41.Washington- Ryan Mallett, QB/ Arkansas
    So ok, Mallett is a tough one to place. Big arm, big guy, big talent, big headache, big douche. He will go someplace. Just a matter of who will take him that they feel is a good value.

    42.Houston- Aaron Williams, CB/ Texas
    Worst secondary in the league and they need a safety too but Williams is a much better value than the safeties right now.

    43.Minnesota – Andy Dalton, QB /TCU
    Kinda grouping these QB’s together a bit but they wont be around in round 3 and Dalton has rose his stock though I think this is still early for him. I think Minnesota goes for Dalton over Kaepernick only because he is more their style and not so much a runner like Kaepernick is.

    44.Detroit - Curtis Brown, CB/ Texas
    Detroit feels big need at RCB where they picked up scrap heap off the waiver wire to fill it last season.

    45.San Francisco – Colin Kaepernick, QB/ Nevada
    Kaepernick has some big talent, some great speed and a huge arm. Jim Harbaugh used Luck on rollouts and liked to move him out and Kaepernick can do this so he fits pretty well in that type of offense. Will need some work but I think he has some real upside.

    46.Denver - from Miami – Martez Wilson, ILB/Illinois
    Going back to the 4-3 they do need a LB in the middle. Timed well at the combine but didn’t workout well at his proday but he is the top ILB in this draft.

    47.St. Louis – Torrey Smith, WR/Maryland
    They got a couple of young guys with talent with some guy named Danny Amendola leading the way but after that, they didn’t have much at WR to speak of.

    48.Oakland – Marcus Cannon, OT/OG/TCU
    Seems they always need to upgrade their OL and yet they are sticking with Jason Campbell. Maybe Al will just pick the fastest guy at the combine. That is possible but this is a more logical pick.

    49.Jacksonville – Rodney Hudson, OC/OG/ Florida st
    Best value on the board out of their needs at CB, Safety and OC and Meester is 33 so bring in the youth. Havent heard QB mentioned as huge need for them so im not going in that direction.

    50.San Diego – Leonard Hankerson, WR/ Miami(FL)
    The more I think about this pick the more I like it. Hankerson killed it at the combine and ran faster than I expected. I think he could go before Torrey Smith and should IMO but others would disagree. I could go OLB here too but I think Hankerson is better value than Brooks Reed here dispsite writers saying he could be a first round pick. Obviously I disagree since he is still on the board.

    51.Tampa Bay - Davon House, CB/New Mexico
    Ronde Barber don’t have a lot left and they have some young guys but none quite as talented as House. Biggers did start some games last year but they do need to groom another to replace Barber.

    52.New York Giants – Luke Stocker, TE/Tennesee
    Their starting TE is Kevin Boss who in three years just hasn’t been much of a factor. Stocker will be an upgrade.

    53.Indianapolis - Marvin Austin, DT/ North Carolina
    Another year, another need at DT for Indy. Austin has talent, just a matter of who is convinced he is ready to play in the NFL.

    54.Philadelphia – Ben Ijalana, OG/Villanova
    Eagles get a solid guy who was a OT in college to play inside for them.

    55.Kansas City - Jonathan Baldwin, WR/ Pittsburgh
    Bowe being their only top WR with Chambers either in the dog house or just declining and McCluster being just a slot guy, Baldwin brings size, good speed and a terrific vertical leap.

    56.New Orleans –Bruce Carter, OLB/N. Carolina
    In need of some OLB help, the Saints get a player who if not injured, might go a little higher than this.

    57.Seattle – Brooks Reed, DE/Arizona
    I had him going to us before but I move him up a bit here with his performance at his workouts who showed much better speed and agility than expected. Seattle gets a much needed pass rusher.

    58.Baltimore – Randall Cobb, WR/Kentucky
    Im having a hard time picking for the Ravens. Ill give them a WR here since Housemanzadah is getting up there and isn’t what he was and Stallworth always seems to be a 1 year rental while Derek Mason continues to get older.

    59.Atlanta – DJ Williams, TE/Arkansas
    Tony Gonzales cant play forever and his backup is Justin friggin Peele. I picked a TE here for them last time too. Looking at some OL for them but this is a better value pick.

    60.New England - Rahim Moore, FS/UCLA
    Moore didn’t wow anybody at the combine or in interviews but im going on a hunch here because it looks like Brandon Merweather could be going to jail.

    61.San Diego (from NY Jets) – Sam Acho, OLB/Texas
    Had some great workouts with good agility and looks like he can play OLB in a 3-4. Cant say im sold because I haven’t seen him play much but he seems to be a good fit. I had Brooks Reed here last time.

    62.Chicago – Orlando Franklin, OT/Miami(FL)
    They had a bad OL and still went to the Championship game. They badly need a LT and Franklin has played LT and LG in his college career.

    63.Pittsburgh – Ras-I-Dowling, CB/Virginia
    Moving him up a bit here because of his showing he had at the combine before he bowed out with a injury but he has good size and great speed and good potential. Could develop into a very good player.

    64.Green Bay – Jerrel Jernigan, WR/ Troy
    Green Bay fans been telling me they need a WR because Driver is 36 and Jones probably isn’t returning so here ya go boys.
     
  3. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Round 3

    65.Carolina – Dontay Moch, OLB/Nevada

    66. Cinncinati – Quinton Carter, FS/Oklahoma

    67.Denver – Ryan Williams, RB/ Virginia Tech

    68.Buffalo – James Carpenter, OT/Alabama

    69.Arizona – Brandon Burton, CB/Utah

    70.Cleveland – Quan Sturdivant, ILB/ North Carolina

    71.Dallas – Allen Bailey,DE/ Miami(FL)

    72.New Orleans –Drake Nevis, DT/LSU

    73.Houston – DeAndre McDaniel, SS/Clemson

    74.New England – John Moffit, OG/OC/Wisconsin

    75.Detroit – Chris Carter, OLB/ Fresno st

    76.San Francisco – Titus Young, WR/Boise st

    77.Tenneessee - Greg Jones, ILB/ Michigan st

    78.St Louis – DeMarco Murray, RB/Oklahoma

    79.Miami – Lance Kendricks, TE/ Wisconsin

    80.Jacksonville – Robert Sands, FS/ West Virginia

    81.Oakland – Shareece Wright, CB/USC

    82.San Diego – Colin McCarthy, ILB/Miami(FL)

    83.NY Giants – Mason Foster, OLB/ Washington

    84.Tampa Bay – Kendall Hunter, RB/Oklahoma st

    85. Philadelphia – Kris O’Dowd, OC/USC

    86.Kansas City – Jerrell Powe, DT/Ole Miss

    87.Indianapolis - Tyler Sash, SS/Iowa

    88.New Orleans – Jordan Todman, RB/ UConn

    89.San Diego(from Seattle) – Marcus Gilbert, OT/Florida

    90. Baltimore – Kelvin Sheppard, ILB/LSU

    91. Atlanta – Pernell McPhee, DE/Miss st

    92.New England – Shane Vereen, RB/ Cal

    93.Chicago – Clint Boling, OG/Georgia

    94.NY Jets – Jason Pinkston, OT/Pittsburgh

    95.Pittsburgh - Kendric Ellis, DT/Hampton

    96.Green Bay – Johnny Patrick, CB/ Louisville


    ROUND 4


    97.Carolina – Chimdi Chekwa, CB/ Ohio st

    98.Seattle-(From New Eng)Greg Little, WR/ N. Carolina

    99.Buffalo- Jarvis Jenkins, DE/ Clemson

    100.Cinncinati- Will Rackley, OG/LeHigh

    101.Cleveland- Duenta Williams, FS/N. Carolina

    102.Arizona- Kendall Hunter, RB/Oklahoma st

    103.Philadelphia(From Wash)- Jordan Cameron, TE/USC

    104.Houston- Nate Irvin, ILB/N. Carolina st

    105.Minnesota- Marcus Gilchrist, CB/ Clemson

    106.Detroit- Joe Lefeged, SS/ Rutgers

    107.San Francisco- Greg Romeus, DE/OLB/Pittsburgh

    108.Tennesee- Tandon Doss, WR/ Indiana

    109.Dallas- Joseph Barksdale, OT/ LSU

    110.Miami- Buster Skrine, CB/ Chattanooga

    111.St. Louis- KJ Wright, OLB/ Mississippi st

    112.Oakland- Pierre Allen, DE/ Nebraska

    113.Jacksonville- Stephen Shilling, OG/ Michigan

    114.San Franicisco-(from SD)Roy Helu, RB/Nebraska

    116.NY Giants- Lawrence Guy, DT/ Arizona st

    117.Kansas City- DeMarcus Love, OT/ Arkansas

    118.Indianapolis- Niles Paul, WR/Nebraska

    119.Philadelphia- Jurrell Casey, DT/ USC

    120.Jacksonville(from N.O.)- Curtis Marsh, CB/ Utah st

    121.Buffalo(from Seattle)- Owen Marecic, FB/ Stanford

    122.Baltimore- Tim Barnes, OC/ Missouri

    123.Atlanta- Terrence Tolliver, WR/ LSU

    124.New England- Edmond Gates, WR/ Abilene Christian

    125.NY Jets- Ian Williams, DT/ Notre Dame

    126.Chicago- Ronald Johnson, WR/ USC

    127.Pittsburgh- Lee Ziemba, OT/ Auburn

    128.Green Bay- Ugo Chinasa, DE/OLB/Oklahoma st
     
  4. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Its a damn shame, but I think people are underestimating our need for LBs of all kinds. Go back and watch both OAK games, the STL game, the Cincy game, and what do they have in common? Big RBs (Jackson, Bush, and Benson) all breaking 100yds and controlling the game. Even the rookie Anthony Dixon averaged 5-6ypc against us before they took him out in favor of Westbrook.


    Now consider Cooper is gone, Siler got only a 7th round tender, Butler is coming of an ACL, Burnett is up in the air probably until after the draft has taken place....I think Akeem Ayers is very likely possibility as a guy who can move inside in the 3-4, in an extremely weak ILB draft.
     
  5. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    I think Ayers is a potentual bust. Dont like him much.

    Agree on LB's and i picked two out of the 5 picks. I know posters like Casey Matthews too for us in the 3rd but imo he is a 5th and there are many others that are better within the 3rd round.
    I do think Burnett and Siler will be back.
     
  6. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I'm not saying its a good pick. But I wouldn't be shocked at all by it.

    Here is a vid, keep an eye on #10. In particular the play at 3:42 mark where he has his hand on the ground, and at the 4:10 mark where he is playing ILB. Dude is versatile, just how AJ likes them.



    I like that he has experience playing ILB and rushing off the edge.
     
  7. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    I just dont like Ayers. He is a slow reactor and then his agility times were crap at the combine. Still think he is going to be a potentual bust in the NFL. Hope AJ sees that too. Showing a highlight video of course isnt going to show shortcomings. Thats why it is called a highlight video...LOL
     
  8. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I'd rather have Ayers than Cameron Jordan.
    I'd rather have Muhammed Wilkerson than Ayers.
    I'd rather have JJ Watt than Wilkerson.

    Just my thinking right now. And lets not start pretending the combine is a good forum to tell if a guy can play football.
     
  9. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Didnt say it was but it sure shows agility and that is important for a LB. And as i said, when i watched Ayers, i got the indication that he was slow to react to plays and with those slow times, that wont help any. The combine has its place. You cant disregard it and it sire wont show you who is a football player but it does tell you something. But i would take game film over it and game film + Ayers times imo = potentual bust. He didnt rate well in the explosion ratings either.
    He was a good college player as many are but he dont interest me for our team in the NFL. Of the players you mentioned

    Id take Watt over all of them
    Id take Jordan over Wilkerson
    Would take Justin Houston over Wilkerson
    Would take Wilkerson over Houston ONLY IF we trade down and get an extra pick to do it but at #18...Houston
    Dont want Ayers
     
  10. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I guarantee you if we draft a 3-4 DE everyone on this site will be complaining about him for the next 5 years.

    Its like the offensive guard position. Theres not a lot of responsibility, its not that difficult, you don't need to be a physical freak to play it, there are a lot of players who can play it, and if you spend a 1st round pick on one he better be one of the best in the league or it flat out isn't worth it.
     
  11. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    New England disagrees with you. When they had their SB runs, had all first round picks on their DL til they traded Seymore. They still have Ty Warren and Wilfork there who were first round picks. Now they are looking for another DE to replace Garrard Warren who has been lackluster his whole career.

    I agree they need to pick the right one and that is true with every first round pick. If they dont go DE in the first, then imo they will go OLB.

    Ayers has his proday coming up on the 29th and he needs to improve his times. His 7.49 in the three cone was absolutely dreadful, he didnt jump well (31") and only did 18 reps. Again that isnt a tell all but it does tell you he isnt explosive.
     
  12. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Well Pittsburgh (a better defense) would agree with me wouldn't they? Where Aaron Smith was a 5th and Keisel was a 7th. Baltimore where Redding was a 3rd, Gregg was a 6th. (Ngata is a hybrid). And those NE guys you speak of always seem to be battling injury, and yet they seem uneffected? Didn't Ty Warren just miss the entire season and they went 14-2? And in 2007 when Richard Seymour played only 8 games they went 16-0 when Jarvis Green (5th round pick) replaced him?

    Thats the stuff I'm talking about, 3-4 DE is like OG, you lose Luis Vasquez and you plug in joe schmoe Tyronne Greene and make due. Its not an incredibly difficult job, just suck up blockers and don't get pushed back.


    Akeem Ayers....I wouldn't be in love with the pick, I just think hings like armstrength and quickness can be worked on. Things like instinct, football intelligence, and just a love for the game cannot. I think he fits the Patriot/Jets/Ravens mold of versatility.
     
  13. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Baltimore also had Trevor Price and he was a former first round pick. The thing is, and im not sure because i havent paid attention to SF's defense but i think Manusky is going to run a 1 gap like Wade so if that is the case, then an athletic, lighter DE like Justin Smith, ALA Watt, Jordan would work well for us. Castillo excelled in Wades 1 gap and then struggled when he left. Again imo if we dont go DE, we will go OLB. Remember Castillo was a first round pick.
    Pittsburgh runs a zone blitz 3-4 so it isnt really like blockers taking up space. It is but they do more with them than we do and their DE's are a little lighter. Dick LeBeau is just a genius.

    BTW- DE- Ziggy Hood was a first round pick for Pittsburgh and so was Casey Hampton. Aaron Smith was a 4th and so was Nick Eason.

    Ty Warren did miss the season and their defense dropped ranking 25th and the reason they didnt advance...much like us in the playoffs when we got there. In their defense though, they do need a OLB who can rush the passer.
     
  14. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    1. Your right Castillo was a first round pick....and everyone complains about how overpaid he is.
    2. Ziggy Hood isn't even the starter, he got time when Smith got hurt.
    3. Casey Hampton is a NT arguably the most important position in the 3-4. Not a 5 tech like the guys we're talking about.
    4. NE's defense was bad because apart from McCourty their secondary is AWFUL, and they have scrub OLBs like Banta-Cain and Ninkovich who can't rush the passer. Their rush D was still very solid (11th).

    I just think 3-4 DEs are 1 trick ponies, if you're gonna take one in the first round he better be Richard Seymour. And considering we'll probably get the 3rd one off the board its hard for me to believe there are multiple Richard Seymours in this draft.
     
  15. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    The only ones complaining will be those that gripe that the guy "doesn't get the 'sacks total' that a 1st round pick should," which is a bunk argument when talking about a 3-4 DE to begin with.

    You also have to consider our scheme. While we haven't been playing a 3-4 over or 3-4 under, our line has staggered and space out slightly different than your standard 1-gap or 2-gap 3-4. We've tended to use Castillo as a 1-gapper, not unlike playing the 3-Technique. Meanwhile we've been asking our LDE to play 2-gaps from the 5-Technique - and the issue is that we haven't had a legitimate 2-Gap lineman (J-Wall aside) since Igor - and even then he wasn't all that fantastic as a 2-gapper, though Wade rarely asked him to play in that capacity. Is this going to change much under our new DC? Not really, Manusky used a similar style with Isaac Sopoaga playing 2-gap and Justin Smith playing 1-gap in San Francisco.

    Now, if you go back and look at who the best 3-4 DE's in the league are, 95% of them are 1st round picks (or at worst Top 10 2nd round picks). The rare case is Aaron Smith (4th rounder) who was developed for 3 years by Dick Lebeau and the Steelers before he ever saw significant playing time - not to mention plays in an entirely different 3-4 scheme than we run.

    And for the OP, I'm rather curious what indicators give you such a secure feeling that AJ will draft a LB in the 1st? Has English underproduced? Of course he has. Has any past behavior of AJ's with regard to the draft led you to believe that if a player he spent a 1st on hasn't produced within two years that he'll spend another high pick to replace/put pressure on him? This would involve AJ eating crow and admitting he was wrong. And much to all of our chagrin, AJ doesn't do that. Buster has failed to produce far more than English has over a far longer period of time and he's still rostered. You're going to want to point towards us not having a definitive starter opposite Phillips, but even without that - and a rotation of 70% Applewhite to 30% Barnes/English/etc - our defense tied for 2nd in the league in sacks (1.0 sacks off the leader, Pittsburgh).

    I'm not saying we won't draft an OLB, nor even that I believe we won't draft one among our first (5) picks. What I am saying is it appears far more likely that it will be a "Whitehurst" type situation where the guy isn't expected to do a ton from Day One - if he booms and passes or puts pressure on the incumbent (English) fantastic. If both turn out, awesome - we have flexibility when contract time comes with Phillips and if he's willing to re-up on a bargain we can deal one of the two at a premium - because pass-rushers, like quarterbacks, garner better value on the trade market than nearly any other position. I'd say Reed (evidently already been scheduled to workout for us), Acho, and Sheard are all possibilities, and even a couple like a Bruce Miller/Steven Friday/Chris Carter sort with our last 3rd (though I still think AJ may be moving one of our 3rd's; either to trade up in the 1st or 2nd, or to pick up a 4th and some change).

    I just don't see it. I could honestly see us taking an ILB - because, much as we might like him to, medical science says we shouldn't depend on Butler to be able to play significant snaps for us in 2011 - before we take an OLB.

    And for God's sake can someone tell me aside from measurables, combine times, and motor what they see in JJ Watt that makes them think he's a better 2-gap 5-Technique DE than Cameron Jordan, Wilkerson, or even Cameron Heyward (yes, as a 2-gap player I'd take Heyward ahead of Watt). Watt is a 1-gap penetrating LDE/UT tweener. If we were looking for someone to playing the WDE position - or if we felt confident in Castillo manning the strong-side - then he's worth a look. But, much like in a 4-3, the 3-4 DE positions are not as interchangeable as folks seem to think they are.
     
  16. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Maybe so but he will be the starter going forward. Smith has played 11 games in two years.
    In any case, i dont think drafting a DE in the first round is a bad thing. Im good either way if we go DE or OLB in the first. AJ must have a good draft this year and not trade away all the picks we have in the first 3 rounds.
     
  17. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Way too long of a post LBC. But I do agree with most of what you said.

    And it takes me back to my point that I think AJ will have a keen eye on Akeem Ayers. A smart player who can line up inside and be a thumper (in a very weak ILB draft), or slide outside and is a LEGITIMATE pass rusher. Trust me Ayers will end up on a "smart" team, like New England, Baltimore, Indy, or Pittsburgh.
     
  18. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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  19. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    boltjolt - I'm not saying I don't expect us to draft an OLB at all or even to wait until our 6th's and 7th to do so. What I am saying is that I don't see AJ sinking a 1st round pick into the position unless Robert Quinn falls to us (Miller won't make it out of the Top 10). As I noted before, I have a sneaking suspicion (mostly due to the way that AJ's operated in the last 4 drafts) that just because we have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds does not mean we will come out of the close of round 3 with 5 players draft - more likely (4) with one of the 2nd's or 3rd's used to move up in a round.

    Despite the fact that a lot of internet (fan) forums are projecting him in the late 1st, I'm fairly certain that Brooks Reed will be a 2nd rounder, as will Sheard, and I'm actually a pretty big advocate of Sam Acho (I place a good deal of stock in coaching pedigree and in particular in Will Muschamp's ability to develop prospects); most of this is because "fan forums" tend to undervalue positions in the 1st round such as QB (4-5 QB's will go in this year's 1st round, minimum; most "fan forums" try to push the end-point as Locker with Mallett/Ponder/Dalton as no-higher-than-2nd rounders) and OT.

    If I was to project our first (3) picks (assuming no trade up in the 1st which would likely require our late 2nd to move anywhere of consequence) I'd say we're probably looking at DE, then OLB or ILB/WR (depending on value; probably at 60%/40%; and this is the "Whitehurst situation" to English that I was referencing earlier - and with WR I really think it's Baldwin or bust as he seems to be the guy AJ has an eye on), then depending on what position is picked with the first 2nd OLB/ILB/TE/RT.

    I do agree that I doubt we get past our first 3rd without having taken an OLB, if for no other reason than there's a lot of uncertainty at that position (Applewhite - UFA, Barnes - could be an RFA could be a UFA, English - Can he stay healthy?, Lang - Can he turn a corner?, Tucker - Can he actually do anything?). I'm also no ruling out Bruce Carter to us at our first 2nd - 3-4 ILB isn't his best projected position, but that doesn't mean he's not capable of playing it. Martez Wilson is a year away from being a viable starter IMO, Greg Jones can't shed blocks in a phone booth to save his life; and yes, I agree this is a pretty weak pure ILB class. I could see a guy like K.J. Wright from Mississippi State moving inside, as I already noted I think Herzlich is actually better suited to kick inside in a 3-4, and call me utterly nuts because his stock has slipped from late-1st/early-2nd to now 5th/6th, but I think Jeremy Beal could be a project ILB. But really the best fit for us is probably Butler's teammate from UW in Mason Foster.
     
  20. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    I agree with a lot of this and i did in that mock exactly what you said you think the first three picks might go.

    I dont agree about Beal or Foster though. I wouldnt pick Beal unless he were there in the 6th. He really has no value as a OLB because he is too slow and not explosive at all and some say he isnt big enough to be a 4-3 DE which i dont agree with. I just dont think he is going to be a very good NFL player. Foster is ok . There are just many other ILB's id take over him . He lacks in coverage and im not real big on numbers but ive never seen a LB have a measley 21" vertical leap before....LOL.
     
  21. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    instead of Colin McCarthy, ILB/Miami(FL) we should draft Mark Herzlich OLB, but he would play ilb in our system he reminds me of a brian urlacher
     
  22. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I think our DE problems are just exaggerated, personally I'm more concerned with our LBs. Our only rock solid one is Phillips and he's turning 31 this year.

    Someone explain to me exactly what JJ Watt adds to this defense that Vaughn Martin doesn't.
     
  23. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    I preface this by saying, I'm not a JJ Watt supporter... at least not Watt as a Charger. He's a better fit as a LDE in a 4-3.

    That said, I don't see how you can say our DE situation is being exaggerated. We have a grand total of (2) DE's rostered and I sure as heck don't feel comfortable about OG playing end - and that's 2 taking into account Glasstillo who misses time it seems like every season for injury and Vaughn Martin who has next to no starting experience. Sorry, I realize VM is/was raw but Jacques Cesaire is just flat out, get's driven back consistently on almost every play BAD... if you can't challenge that guy for playing time then you're not a viable starter in my eyes.

    Cameron Jordan on the other hand adds plenty to this defense that Martin does - he's a much more natural penetrator and he has more technical pass-rushing moves in his arsenal now (coming out of college) than Vaughn has now (after two years in the pros).

    Even setting Jordan aside, I've pretty much resided myself at this point as a Charger fan that AJ is going to make reaches in the early rounds - I've just got to hope that his talent eval is up to snuff at which point if the guy develops and blossoms I could really care less 2-3 years down the line that we reached by 5-10 picks for him. So with this in mind, I'd rather him reach and take a guy that's a better fit for our team than take the "value guy" who doesn't fit us as well.

    It's that mindset which allows me to feel better about reaching at #18 for a guy like Wilkerson, Liuget, or Heyward if a trade back option isn't available to us than to risk the top tier crop being utterly gone by the time we're picking in the 2nd and our team being one injury away from starting Christian Ballard or *barf* Jarvis Jenkins.
     
  24. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I understand we're short on DEs, and I understand Cesaire is washed up, and that Castillo is somewhat brittle. But there are a lot of D-linemen out there who can succeed at a job where the only real requirement is "don't get pushed back."

    What I want is to see.....
    18) OT Carimi, Smith, or Castonzo. Protect your 92 million dollar asset that got hit a carrer high 60 times last year.
    50) OLB Brooks Reed. This is becoming more unrealistic by the day, his stock is skyrocketing.
    61) CB Curtis Brown. Ideal nickle player, will keep Cason from getting too comfortable.
    82) DE Lawrence Guy. He won't get pushed backwards and can create some pass rush. Nice long arms and good functional strength.
    89) ILB Kelvin Sheppard. We need guys who can make tackles on big RBs, this guy can do it.

    Rest of the picks...maybe a WR or another DE in later rounds.
     
  25. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Have you actually watched Lawrence Guy play? The guy is developmental like nobody's business - and you don't have to take my opinion for it, the vast opinion of scouting resources online are echoing the same sentiment. He's technically just slightly beyond where VM was when he came to us 2 years ago, except that he's played against better competition and had higher quality coaching (which I'm really not sure whether or not to hold against him for still essentially functioning his entire game around his athletic ability and next to no technique). He can't disengage whatsoever.

    Look, I realize we have differing opinions as to the DL, but you can't just plug "big guys" who physically fit the mold in terms of height and weight in and expect them to contribute from Day One unless they already have a strong technical base (because 9/10 times a player's superior "collegiate" athleticism advantage is washed away when he hits the pros). And the job entails a heck of a lot more than "don't get pushed back". If "don't get pushed back" was all that was required then Nwagbuo could play DE, because his best attribute is his ability to anchor. The primary job is to "demand" double-teams and blocks to free up the linebackers to make plays. In all honesty it's not all that far off of Jim Bates' version of the 4-3 which is that the interior linemen plug the middle and demand blocks/double-teams to free up the edge rushers and interior blitzers.

    Lawrence Guy was getting washed out on single-blocks in the Pac-10 (where there are a good deal of undersized OL compared to the pro level).
     
  26. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I went back and watched Guy and your right. I rememer liking him last year but damn he had a bad season. BTW I think Nwagbuo can play DE, infact thats what I was sure he'd do eventually, and I was frustrated to see our staff pigeon hole him as an undersized NT. I also think Vaughn Martin is IDEAL for the 5 technique and am not sure why he didn't start there over Cesaire all of last season.


    I don't think our defense is ever going to improve until we get LBs and Ss who don't bounce pathetically off RBs and TEs. So many big plays were lost last year due to missed tackles behind and at the line of scrimmage because of bad tackling, I remember thinking all through the year we need a big playmaker on defense......3-4 DEs are not playmakers.
     
  27. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    LBC, i went to footballs future i saw where you said you didnt want Watt and even said you would like Jordan more and would be happy but not with Watt. I dont see much of a difference in them. Bot are under 300 where Watt is a little bigger and has more size to add weight but i dont see Jordan being able to take on double teams or clog up anything anymor at all than Watt could . Both fit better imo as penetrating 1 gap DE's but imo Watt is the better athlete and plays with more intensity.

    Just dont agree with you there. I like both players but imo Watt is a better player and actually i think Jordan would make a good 4-3 DT. He looked much better there in the senior bowl than he did at DE.

    As for that other forum...lot of the same guys there post at .com.
     
  28. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    We are going to get all three possitions in this draft. OLB,ILB and DE. Safety i doubt it. Arent any good ones imo worth getting anyways compared to what we have already. This safety class is weak.
     
  29. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    My issues with Watt lie in technique and are some of the same reasons I'm not a fan of Nick Fairley as a 5-Technique. Let me be clear, I'm not stating that they cannot, no-way/no-how play the position, I just don't believe their value is as high at the particular position as some others' is. Watt's "money" position is LDE, but realistically the guy can play probably 3 positions across a four-man front. At this point he's a poor man's Justin Tuck with room to grow - a natural penetrator who gets where he does off of great burst and a well-above-average first step. His handwork is so-so and leaves a lot to be desired (and I placed ALOT of value in quality handwork for a DL, in no small part because of the gentleman who shares that opinion - one, Warren Sapp); for the record Liuget has the most powerful hands of any DL in this draft not named Dareus (Jordan has the most technical but he lacks in the power of his punch - Liuget punches like an angry silverback gorilla).

    As for the other reason I prefer Jordan/Liuget to Watt... look at their lower bodies. Watt doesn't have the lower body bulk to anchor as well against double teams. Jordan too need to add, but he's got more to work with to start and that goes in terms of both technical ability, familiarity with playing the 5-Technique, and lower body bulk. I look at Watt and I don't see a 5-Technique and I definitely don't see a 2-gap defender which is primarily what we need. If all we were doing was ask Watt to penetrate and shoot the gap and rush the passer every play then he'd be a lot better fit for us. However, we're likely going to be asking him to sit and draw/eat blocks to free up the backers and man two gaps in the running game - and in that capacity he stands a much better chance to be handled effectively by a right tackle in single-block with the occasional chip off the snap from the right guard.

    As to your additional post about drafting a safety, I agree. Brittle Bob is essentially Stuckey's one-year to get his ish together and contribute or go the way of Anthony Waters. We may bring in a UDFA project safety or two - if or when we're able to actually sign UDFA's - but I wouldn't count on seeing us draft one until Gregory's contract is up and we have definitive knowledge on what Weddle's long-term prospects here are.
     
  30. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Watt has only been playing DL for two years. He was a TE before that at Central Michigan and trasferred to Wisconsin and made a DL. So he has made tremendous strides in that short time so i think his ceiling has a lot more room to grow and get better with some good NFL coaching. There are some other guys id like to have at DE as you sdaid like Luiget and Wilkerson but if we get Wilkerson i hope we trade down a bit and get an extra pick instead of picking him at #18. He fits better size wise ans how he plays but he also imo isnt the player Watt or Jordan is.
    Id be stunned if AJ went OT in the first round and really i think there is no chance he will going from history but if he did id be fine with it since ive wanted him to do that for several years. We do need some more LB's, that im in total agreement with. Just laugh when i see posters here and other Charger sites wanting us to pick Casey Matthews in the 3rd when there are better LB's in the 3rd and he is more like a 5th.
     

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