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A Darren Sproles back is how important?

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by gettough, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. gettough

    gettough BoltTalker

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    Looking at the needs on the team, I just don't see the logic in AJ drafting a running back in the first three rounds. But I keep reading that there are a lot of running backs in this draft that fit the Darren Sproles void that Rivers missed last season: http://www.letsgosandiego.blogspot.com/2012/02/many-intriguing-prospects-at-running.html

    Are any of the running backs worth taking over soem other position in the first three rounds.
     
  2. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    No running back is worth taking in the 1st 2. We probably have too many holes to merit taking one as high as the 3rd.
     
  3. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    I don't believe that Rivers or this team did miss Sproles. We saw the 2 years prior that Sproles was just about useless in this system.

    Not saying he is a bad player, just that some times a certain type of player just doesn't fit into a system while others (See Tolbert) do
     
  4. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    Sproles last two years and like Jackoffsons last season, showed me one thing. A player can be tagged but without that guarantee they are going to protect themselves at all cost. I can't say that I blame them and I'd probably do they same and save myself for that big payday that comes with a guarantee.
     
  5. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Jackson's 1100 yds and 9 TDs in 2011 were an absolute travesty before gods and men. He should be lashed to a cliff face at low tide.
     
  6. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Yeah, and he did that in like 8 games since he didn't even show up the other 8 games.

    And those 1100 yards didn't even put him in the top 10 in the NFL(He was 14 among WR's), yet he wants top 5 money.
     
  7. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    5/50 is not top 5 money.
     
  8. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    also, 2011 VJ

    2 for 31
    10 for 172
    5 for 63
    3 for 108
    3 for 34
    1 for 15
    3 for 49
    7 for 141
    1 for 22
    7 for 165
    2 for 25
    4 for 72
    5 for 55
    3 for 84
    2 for 41
    2 for 29

    Jackson had 9 games with over 50 yds, and 4 with over 100.

    2011 Megatron (i.e., the most explosive/dominant WR in Football, and number 1 for receiving yards in 2011)
    6 for 88
    3 for 29
    7 for 108
    8 for 96
    5 for 130
    7 for 113
    5 for 115
    6 for 125
    7 for 81
    5 for 89
    4 for 49
    6 for 69
    3 for 29
    9 for 214
    4 for 102
    11 for 244
    12 games over 50, and 8 games over 100. Johnson is obviously better, but calling Jackson a schmuck just isn't born out by the numbers, as Johnson had 40 more catches.

    If you normalize the top receivers in the league to 60 catches, here's how the numbers look:

    Calvin Johnson, 1050 yds 10 TDs
    Wes Welker, 771 yds, 4.4 TDs
    Victor Cruz, 1123 yds, 6.6 TDs
    Larry Fitz, 1058 yds, 6 TDs
    Steve Smith, 1056 yds, 5.3 TDs
    Roddy White, 780 yds, 4.8 TDs
    Jordy Nelson, 1116 yds, 13.2 TDs
    Brandon Marshall, 900 yds, 4.4 TDs
    Mike Wallace, 996 yds, 6.7 TDs
    Hakeem Nicks, 942 yds, 5.5 TDs
    Dwayne Bowe, 858 yds, 3.7 TDs
    Marques Colston, 857 yds, 6 TDs
    Antonio Brown, 966 yds, 1.7 TDs
    VJ, 1106 yds, 9 TDs.

    Jackson had a bigger impact on the passes he caught than any other receiver in the league other than Jordy Nelson. What we probably need to do is throw VJ the ball more, rather than let him leave the team. Going back to 2008 his numbers are virtually identical year for year, and that's probably what's most disappointing, that we finally have a consistent number 1 receiver for the first time since 1985 and keeping him on the roster isn't a top-priority.
     
  9. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Beings that the franchise number for this year is $9.5 mil for WR's, and that number is the average of the top 5 WR's, I would say math disagrees with you
     
  10. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Normalize my ***. # of catches is an extremely important stat, you can;t just ignore WR's that do more each game and have more catches than VJ just because it suites your argument. There is a reason that no one cares or uses yards/catch when talking about the best. Give me a 100 catch guy that gets 1100 yards over a guy who gets 60 catches and 1100 yards ANY DAY!
     
  11. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Under the new CBA, the Franchise tag is the average of the top 5 WRs over the last 5 seasons. I would say the terms of the current CBA disagree with you.
     
  12. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    You would like a guy who catches 33% of all completed passes on your offense and only gets 1100 yds? :confused:

    VJ needs to catch more balls, that doesn't make him a garbage receiver, which is what many posts in the last few days on the board have been making him out to be.
     
  13. BoltsFanUK

    BoltsFanUK Well-Known Member

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    Megatron's lowest number of catches in a game is 3 and that happened twice. VJ had 6 games with less than 3 catches which shows that VJ doesn't deserve top five receiver money
     
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  14. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    No one said he was garbage, i said he was no where near a top 5 reciever, doesn't deserve the money of a top 5 receiver, and I would rather have 2 "#2" receivers for what VJ will demand
     
  15. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    You are right, that changed this year. Prior to this year it was average of the top 5 from the previous year alone. Either way, $10mil/ yr average puts him VERY close to top 5 money, something he doesn't deserve
     
  16. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    I don't give a rat's arse if you take him out and drag him behind your moped, I said I probably do the same thing and save myself as well. It's more his tude that I suffer from and I don't believe his really cares about the city or the team, it's all about him.
     
  17. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I couldn't disagree more with this. As I said earlier most WRs who reach 100 catches do so because their team can't run worth a ****. Calvin Johnson played on a team this year that was 31st in rushing attempts, Victor Cruz racked up catches on a team that was 32nd in yards per carry, even Roddy White's numbers are inflated because the Falcons rushing game has tapered since 2008.

    Norv runs a 7 step drop and bomb/screen passing game, it doesn't lend itself to big reception numbers for anyone.
     
  18. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you work for 30% of your earning potential and donate the rest to the San Diego Chargers. My apologies.
     
  19. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    You might very well get your wish to see Jackson playing elsewhere. However, if we sign 2 guys for the $10 million Jackson wanted, we won't be getting two players who had been number 2 receivers on their team. We'll be getting 2 guys who had been number three receivers on their team, and paying them 5 mil a season.

    With Mario Manningham, you won't be paying for his 39 receptions for 523 yards, you'll be paying for his 38 yd superbowl catch.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/11329/mario-manningham

    That's dominant production, especially in the playoffs. Consider also that the two other receivers on his team were 3rd and 10th for total receiving, so this was his production against nickel corners and safeties. You might also notice some gaps in the dates in the link above from where he was benched for 4 games. That's what "not showing up" actually looks like.
     
  20. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    Since I'm disabled from many injuries in the past, I don't work anymore. It's too damn bad I didn't know then what I know now. I would have indeed saved myself cause these days, climbing stairs can be a real b1tch.
     
  21. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    I don't hope VJ goes somewhere, I would love to see him stay, but any fan and the team also has to take cost into account, an he simply isn't worth the money he is looking for
     
  22. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Precisely the point........ elite WRs don't disappear in games when matched up with a good CB. Jackson does just that, more often than you'd like to see.
     
  23. BlazingBolt

    BlazingBolt BoltTalker

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    Jackson played through significant injury this year and still put up very good numbers. He is usually pretty healthy except for the one year he missed and this is the most injured he has been. You got to figure if he a healthy Jackson would have put up at least 20 more catches for another 250 and 3 more TD's which is a phenomenal season. That's what my crystal ball says. Pay the man 5 years 50 million and he will be back.

    After Tony Martin it took this franchise many years to find another 1,000 yard WR (Curtis Conway or Jeff Graham can't remember)
     
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  24. Rainstar

    Rainstar BoltTalker

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    Stats are used for many things, including assessments, but it doesn't take into consideration that VJ was often double or tripled teamed, played injured, or all the other times that he assisted his fellow WRs or TEs to catch the ball by blocking. Pay the man already. It is rumored he is willing to accept less pay to play in San Diego when other teams are willing to pay him more.
     
  25. gettough

    gettough BoltTalker

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    I think a player of Sproles skills could do good in this offense with better blocking. IMO In 11 Sproles proved he's better than he showed in 09 and 10.
     
  26. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Unfortunately, 09 and 10 proved otherwise. By the way, I don't put the blame on him
     
  27. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I don't know what this sentence means. Please clarify.
     
  28. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Read the post it was replying to. It would probably make more sense
     
  29. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    It still doesn't make sense to me. The post you responded to said that he could do well in this offense with better blocking, which was proved by his 2011 performance. You can't say that 09 and 10 proved otherwise unless you're asserting that the 09/10 Chargers had a better Oline than the 2011 Saints. If that's your assertion then your post now makes sense to me, although I think that's kind of a questionable viewpoint.
     
  30. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    The post said he could do well in this offensive scheme, which was proven wrong in '09 and '10. It isn't that he was a bad player, just that he was not used properly and when he was used, they didn't maximize his skill set.

    To me, a huge part of that is the RB coach running the rotation with Norv calling the plays. How is Norv supposed to call a play that maximizes on a players ability, if he doesn't even know what RB will be in the game, and I think that was a huge reason we saw all those ridiculously dumb dive plays with Sproles.

    Sproles was not used well in this scheme, no matter how the blocking was. His skill set simply wasn't utilized to its potential.

    By the way, no I don't think the line was better. We haven't had a 'good' o-line in several years. But I think they were good enough that if we ran the Saints offense, he would have been 10x more effective than he was in '09 and '10. Maybe not to the level he was with the Saints, but he would have been a ton better than he was
     

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