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Acee: Chargers losing the offseason

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Blue Bolt, Mar 15, 2015.

  1. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    It's not just the fans who have their hair on fire........ ;)

    So far, Chargers losing the offseason
    By Kevin Acee MARCH 15, 2015


    The Indianapolis Colts evidently don’t think getting to the AFC Championship game is good enough.

    Maybe the Chargers can grab some of Indianapolis' current players in a few years – to help build around their quarterback, Marcus Mariota.

    The Colts have been to the postseason three straight years and have made March moves clearly aimed at trying to make sure they continue their momentum.

    Indianapolis' signings – Frank Gore, Andre Johnson and Trent Cole – are not guaranteed to get them a step further. But general manager Ryan Grigson is being unquestionably bold as he tries to better what was already a really good team.

    Meanwhile, Chargers G.M. Tom Telesco, two years removed from being Grigson’s chief lieutenant, continues to follow the example of another one of his former bosses, Bill Polian, who views free agency the way Dean Spanos views Mission Valley. As in, well, maybe, and only if he has to.

    Polian will be inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in August. His 2006 Colts team won a Super Bowl, and he built rosters that made five others. That’s a good guy to emulate.

    But Telesco didn't need to simply make a few tweaks to a winner, and the timing seemed right for us to rightly expect more than what has happened.

    We weren’t talking A.J. Preller-type seismic activity, just something much more than a typical A.J. Smith offseason.

    The Chargers entered the free agency period with enough room under the salary cap to do whatever they wanted. And they’ve wanted to do more than they have been able to, even if they are putting on happy faces about the current state of affairs.

    They can say they like their team, but they know it must be much better than it is now to make the postseason and compete with the likes of the Colts.

    The Chargers are coming off a second straight 9-7 season. They are not currently better than they were when they walked off the field in Kansas City on Dec. 28, so close yet so far from making the postseason. They are, by many measures, worse.

    They will get a weapon back in Danny Woodhead. Their offensive line appears to be improved. Other than that, the Chargers are in regression. They need a starting running back and another impact receiver. They've done nothing to strengthen their defensive front. They are desperate for depth all over the defense.

    The draft, in theory, could leave us speechless. Theoretically, a blockbuster trade could be engineered.

    Someone on the second floor at Chargers Park pointed out Saturday that the offseason is not over. But, but …

    What are we doing?

    That sums up – and in some cases precisely quotes – the tweets and e-mails from fans and the texts from players this past week.

    The Chargers have done well to keep their own, locking up left tackle King Dunlap and cornerback Brandon Flowers. They also presumably got better at left guard with the signing of former Denver Bronco Orlando Franklin and necessarily enhanced the return game with Jacoby Jones, the former Baltimore Ravens wideout. Jimmy Wilson, a guy Telesco has long liked, will be given every opportunity to be the starting strong safety.


    Look, it’s not that Telesco has been vacationing.

    The Chargers made at least some advances toward Ndamukong Suh, the top available free agent. They talked about Randall Cobb. They offered Johnson more money than he got from the Colts.

    It hasn’t worked out.

    And there aren’t a whole lot of game-changing players left on the market.

    Super Bowls aren’t won in March. But Super Bowl-contending teams are re-tooled at this time. It’s been disheartening to see what other teams are doing.

    The Seattle Seahawks, seconds from winning their second straight Super Bowl in February, last week traded for tight end Jimmy Graham. The Buffalo Bills and Miami Dolphins are attempting to loosen New England’s viselike grip on the AFC East with a slew of moves. The St. Louis Rams aren’t sitting back in a tough division and shrugging their shoulders. The Philadelphia Eagles let a lot of production get away but made the signings to replace it.

    Arguably, the biggest news the Chargers have made was in the revelation they’re going to conduct a private pre-draft workout with Mariota, the Oregon quarterback expected to be taken early in the first round.

    Weird.

    Consider that the franchise quarterback is entering the final year of his contract and is eyeing everything you do this offseason as he decides whether he wants to continue his Super Bowl quest in San Diego (or Los Angeles).

    Even understanding the need for due diligence – the Chargers have worked out quarterbacks before during Rivers’ tenure -- going to that length with a first-round QB is a head-scratcher.

    But, then, this Chargers offseason is confusing.
     
  2. Brundlefly

    Brundlefly Well-Known Member

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    Disagree
     
  3. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    With what?..... that wasn't a one word essay. ;)
     
  4. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I've been wondering if Derek Cox made Telesco a little gun shy, it seems he's only taking real risks on players the team has a connection too. Donald Brown, Dwight Freeney, Rico Mathews, Kavell Conner, they pursued Jerraud Powers last year, and Orlando Franklin has a Denver connection to Mike McCoy.

    Brandon Flowers is easily the most they've spent on an outside the loop FA, and that was a 1 year deal.
     
  5. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    He also seems to be following his mentor's method of building through the draft.
     
  6. Fossil

    Fossil BoltTalker

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    I also disagree, with Acee, Brundlefly, you, and myself. :whistling:
     
  7. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Why not add the whole damn forum while you're at it?...... those friggin' people really chap my hide. ;)
     
  8. Moses

    Moses Can You Stand The Rain?

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    Acee is very negative sometimes. He will post an article bashing Telesco for what he hasn't done but ignore what he has done. There's a hole at RB, but I bet he'd also be complaining if he'd re-signed Mathews, Acee would then break out the "risky signing because of injury history" or some other negativity.

    Offensive line might have been our biggest need, yet he ignores the fact we retained King Dunlap long term, and secured one of the best free agent linemen out there in Franklin, at the expense of our rival no less.

    Then let's talk about our secondary, because according to Acee we're desperate for help everywhere. We kept Flowers for 4 more years, one of the best CBs available, but no mention of that either.

    Let's also complain about Suh who got a boatload of money and we never really had a shot at, and Cobb who was never gonna leave the Pack.

    Shall we all ignore the above points and cry because we didn't get Frank Gore??? Come on man, that's laughable.

    Telesco still has money to spend, and draft picks to address remaining needs, Acee needs to sit down and take a look at his life.
     
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  9. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I guess you didn't read this part....... ;)

    The Chargers have done well to keep their own, locking up left tackle King Dunlap and cornerback Brandon Flowers. They also presumably got better at left guard with the signing of former Denver Bronco Orlando Franklin and necessarily enhanced the return game with Jacoby Jones, the former Baltimore Ravens wideout. Jimmy Wilson, a guy Telesco has long liked, will be given every opportunity to be the starting strong safety.

    Look, it’s not that Telesco has been vacationing.
     
  10. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    The problem I think Acee's having, and I kind of agree, is there are no sure starters left in FA, and we're sitting on $20M in cap space. My checklist of needs...(red indicates I think we need an immediate starter)

    QB - 1: Camp arm, or future?
    RB - 1 : Now we have to replace Mathews, Brown sure as hell can't do it.
    WR - 1 : Floyd turns 34 this year, Royal is gone.
    OT - 1 : Need a swing OT.
    C/OG - 1 : Troutman sucks. And I'd like to see us draft a C so we can move Watt back to OG.
    NT/DE - 1.5 : Reyes ain't cutting it. Carrethers is an unknown. Lissemore is just a guy.
    OLB - 2 : Lost Johnson and Freeney.
    ILB - 1 : Lost Gachkar.
    CB - 1 : It'd be nice to have 1 CB over 5'9. All 3 starters have some injury concerns, Williams esp.
    S - 1 : Wilson is basically Gilchrist, but SS is far from answered.

    Not to say a guy like Sirles, Scioneaux, or Ducre won't surprise us all and become solid contributors, I really don't know because I'm not a coach. But at face value this is what fans see as question marks, and it's a lot for a team with only 6 draft picks.
     
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  11. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    No doubt. From the outside, it looks like we lost more players than we gained, when this was the year we had cap space to add to the roster. That is perplexing to the average fan. FA may not be over, but the majority of the best players already are. There are too many holes to all be addressed by the draft.
     
  12. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    So long as they win in the real season I don't care.

    We all saw how far being the offseason paper champions got us throughout the 00s.
     
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  13. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Carpe Diem et omni Mundio Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    It also hasn't even been a full week.......even I'm saying that people need to chill a little. Chargers could still end up with Crabtree/Wicznewski and others and this off-season will look a HELL of a lot better.
     
  14. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    $20 million is a ghost number. Again, it's closer to $12-13 in uncommitted/budgeted space. And folks seem to forget that we have other pending free agents in 2016 that we'd like to get locked up or that cap-space can carry over from one year to the next.

    So which would you rather have a middle-of-the-road starter now or the capacity to make a real and true run at someone like Justin Houston or another true top flight free agent in 2016 because we took care of business getting our own locked up and still had surplus to burn?

    As to Acee, his job is to sell copy. Controversy sells more copy than lauding praise does. Now that Mikey G has taken over as the primary news-reporting Chargers beat writer for the U-T, Acee's more or less an Op-Ed guy like Canepa is.
     
  15. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Well to answer your question, I think I'd rather have Ryan Mathews and Eddie Royal than a couple empty lockers. I think it's very likely we have to spend high value picks replacing them, rather than supplementing their positions with mid-round picks that we could have developed.

    But long term I guess it all depends on Philip Rivers. As discussed in the other thread, I'm not completely convinced he sticks around much longer. Considering that all his buddies are on their way out (Hardwick, Clary, Gates, possibly Floyd), plus the possibility that the Chargers may move to LA, and the fact that he could easily end up on TV. Unless he thinks we're REALLY close to a SB...what true reason does he have to sign a long term deal? Love of the game vs long term health is now a very real discussion.

    I understand Acee's ulterior motive, but I think he may have a point. Short of landing Mariota at 17 we're probably in for some rough times after Rivers retires, and we should be in "win now" mode.
     
  16. powayslugger

    powayslugger No longer a fan- FU Spanos

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    negativity sells... look at Fox News. Every day they'll run stories of danger, woo and corruption- and people watch. Same with Acee- he's selling "The sky is falling news" and we're reading it and lapping it up like thirsty dogs. Who would give-a-**** if he agreed with what TT was doing?

    Would we be talking about it if he did? Hell no- we'd be down at the beach watching the bikinis go by and sipping our beers out of paper bags. Sadly his type of journalism is what sells in America so that's what he (and plenty of others) churn out by the drivel-filled bucketfuls. Acee is a hack.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
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  17. NYCharger

    NYCharger BoltTalker

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    Do we really want to follow the Colts' model of poor drafting followed by signing aging veterans with famous names in free agency?

    We never had a ridiculous amount of cap space as long as we intended to bring back Flowers and Dunlap, both of whom, along with Franklin, got backloaded deals. If we want to fill the holes mentioned earlier in the thread using free agency we'll need to spread around the fairly limited funds we have, which means second tier guys.
     
  18. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I don't think a week ago anyone here expected Telesco to actually consider guys like Suh, Cobb, Iupati etc...and I don't really think they tried that hard, it was probably just saber rattling to get fans stirred up.

    The problem is I don't think many of these guys left qualify as 2nd tier. There are a couple I kinda like in the Ricardo Mathews depth type of way (like Cedric Thornton), but not many.
     
  19. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    I want to preface by saying that this isn't intended to be disrespectful, so if it reads that way - apologies in advance, that's not the intention. But some of these platitudes are tired and more than a little naive.

    EVERY team is in win now mode. The lone exception might have been Jacksonville last season. But the only way people keep their jobs in this league is to win.

    But ultimately this idea that we have to go all-in and push our chips to the middle of the table because our QB is aging is bunk. It really is. Look at the teams that are consistently winning. As much as I loathe the man personally, look at Belichick. You build through the draft. You jump on absolute premium free agents if you have a shot at them - but you go out of your way or bend yourself over a barrel to retain either your advanced-age or injury-prone players.

    What's horribly frustrating is that there's always some excuse for people to give as to why our situation is different than others': "They already won with ____," "They've already got a talent-rich team," blah blah freakin' blah. You know how they got into the position that they're in... but not wavering from a tried and true philosophy for team building and development by indulging impatient whims and hair-up-the-*** panic-button pushes.
     
  20. NYCharger

    NYCharger BoltTalker

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    I agree it's limited out there but if TT is going to add value as a GM it'll be by finding contributors from those types of players.
     
  21. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I'm not saying "go all in" I'm saying don't make gaping holes where you don't need too.

    Now it's entirely possible Mathews simply did not want to re-sign (I wouldn't blame him), but his contract with Philly was only $1M more than the one Donald Brown signed last year, and Donald Brown has NEVER held onto a leading role for any amount of time. And Eddie Royal has scored some 14-15 TDs for us over the last 2 years, dude is valuable.

    And if you can't keep them you get creative with a guy like Percy Harvin, who I think would have made A TON of sense.

    Now we go from - "we need to replace Johnnie Troutman and Kendall Reyes, and maybe find a deep threat WR."
    To - "holy ****, we need to replace Mathews, Royal, Troutman, and Reyes...and then build some depth."

    Tommy has some work to do.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2015
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  22. Razma

    Razma Well-Known Member

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    I'll hold off on any kind of offseason judgement until camp starts for next season. Sure I wanted to pick up a player like Cobb or Johnson or bring back some of our guys but we did retain some key cogs and added a few guys who can make a difference.

    Even then if our Oline plays better then every other position on offense will be improved and then the defense will be improved by being on the field less and so on. Telesco has made some good moves and we have put ourselves in a good position this year and in the future cap wise.

    Just gotta have faith. :bolt:
     
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  23. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    It would be a very sad day when we have to fret about replacing mediocrity! With the exception of Eddie Royal, all other aforementioned are/were expandable. Your POV on Donald Brown is perfectly valid, but two wrongs still do not make a right. If DB is still on this roster next August, he will not be the starting RB.
     
  24. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Everyone is technically replaceable, it's what you have to spend to do it that matters.

    For example, now we don't have Mathews, and there are no equivalent free agents, which means we have to draft and pray that the rookie we land is game ready. And the draft spot we use to do it could've been used for an even more expendable player like Troutman. Or vice versa.

    You understand the math here? At some point you create more problems than you can sufficiently fix. Meanwhile Rivers ages another year...and this is the big 3rd year for the Telesco/McCoy regime.
     
  25. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Which is why they'll set off the dynamite, pack up the trucks, and move to Carson in the dead of night. ;)
     
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  26. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Percy Harvin is little more than a name at this point. He really is. When teams have to "manufacture touches" for guys because they can't actually produce in the role they're supposed to be plugging into in the offense - that's not a testament to the great quality of the player.

    We need, by your count in either this thread or the other one, we need 2-2.5 starters from this draft (1 of which at a position that is not only incredibly deep in this draft class but one which has historically been a position where rookies can make the jump from college to the pros with relative ease). That 2 starters for a draft class is pretty common fare among every team in the league. This isn't some Chargers-only thing.

    Royal's production is actually not that difficult to replace when you consider how incredibly streak a player he was for us. Did the guy have several multi-TD games where he caught fire? Sure. Does that erase the equally-as-many games where he had wicked cases of the dropsies or seemed to forget what the hell his route assignment was? Not in the slightest. Between what Inman showed at the close of the season and what Jacoby Jones (who is equally as streaky with his hands, if I'm being honest) brings to the table (as well as a healthy Danny Woodhead - who people seem to forget was one of Rivers' favorite red zone targets in 2013), Royal's production is honestly not that hard to replace just there.

    I've addressed running back. With a proper OL - which we're one starter away from having (I'd honestly contend we're there now if we factor in Trevor Robinson with an actual camp with us under his belt, but I certainly won't argue with further addition through the draft) - running backs are a dime a dozen (further proven by the fact that every season there's at least one UDFA who tops 500 yards and 4-5 TD's) in this league.

    Acee's ust stirring the pot. The premise of his article is short-sighted by design - particularly when you consider that he's writing about a team whose arguably best free agent signing of the past decade came AFTER THE DRAFT last year. If that doesn't illustrate that rendering judgment and issuing "failure" tags after only the second week of an ongoing process, I don't know what does.
     
  27. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    With all due respect, the hyperbole of the "pray the guy we draft is game-ready" stuff is truly hilarious.

    If you know going in that you need a guy that's pro-ready and you trust your scouts to identify who is pro-ready and who isn't, then why the hell would you draft someone who is?

    Even if Ryan Mathews was brought back to this team, this front office would have likely drafted a RB. Why? It's a deep as hell RB class and Ryan Mathews hasn't shown himself to be dependable.

    A draft pick (or draft picks) was going to be spent on OL regardless as well? Why? Because this front office has demonstrated that they draft to fix the ailments of the previous year - and we were hamstrung last season because even the limited depth we had were in civies on the sideline.

    I understand the math. It's the same math it's always been... even when those guys were on the team.
     
  28. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    1. It's amazing how you seem to have a negative opinion on every player I mention, yet you think we can fix all our problems with what is left in FA and the draft.

    2. Seattle runs a power running / smoke an mirrors offense, you know this, yet because they tried to integrate Harvin into it you pigeonhole him as a smoke and mirrors WR? I disagree, I think he's the type of player you just try to get the ball in space, and I think in our short-med passing game he would fit very nicely. (And no, I'm not saying pay him a big money on long term deal). Unfortunately playing in Buffalo with EJ Manuel isn't going to help my case.

    3. As you know starters aren't the only ones who will touch the field for us this year. I'm talking about 2-3 starters (who will now likely be rookies, just like the last 2 years) PLUS key role players like a deep threat WR, a 3rd pass rusher, at least 1 backup CB, maybe a safety who can cover someone, a DE who can stop the run....so when players like Melvin Ingram go down we don't have to heavily rely on players like Tourek Williams anymore.

    And lets take Acee's article in context, he said "losing, so far." Which I agree with.

    And I think it's extremely unwise to bank on another Brandon Flowers situation happening the way it did (aided by Eddie Royal) and working out the way it has.
     
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  29. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    It's treacherously arrogant to assume your scouts know exactly who a prospect is, and what he's going to be in the NFL every single time. Maybe YOU know, but the rest of us are mere humans.

    I agree we would have drafted a RB anyway, but now the problem has jumped up a few rounds in terms of importance now. Like I said, you can't count on joe schmoe 4th rounder to be exactly who you think he is. You may hit, you may miss. And if you miss, Danny Woodhead ends up starting.

    Same thing with the O-line.

    My point remains the same, I think you try to retain young players you KNOW can play when you can afford too, while grooming eventual replacements. (Like the Ravens for example most certainly try to do). And if you have to cut mistakes like Donald Brown to make it happen, you do. I just don't like the way it's gone down, so far.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2015
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  30. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I hate it when Matty actually makes some sense. ;)
     
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