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After peaking in 2007, NFL attendance steadily has declined

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan, Jul 8, 2012.

  1. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...in-2007-nfl-attendance-steadily-has-declined/

     
  2. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    And what are the attendance figures of teams that have had new stadiums built, I wonder?
     
  3. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Good question. Especially with those outrageous PSL's teams are charging.
     
  4. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Pot Smoking Losers? :D
     
  5. Pumpkin Bolt

    Pumpkin Bolt Zin me!

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    Having season tickets the issue for me was the lack of service from the front office, it was like they did me a favor by taking my money and selling me my seats.

    Only one time I called the ticket office did I get a rep that cared about me!


    Sent from my iPhone
     
  6. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I don't understand why this is surprising to anyone. The overwhelming majority of tickets at a Padres game are $25.00 or less, with the highest price for premium tickets being $95.00, and the game experience at Petco is wildly better than the game experience on my couch. The minimum ticket price for a Chargers game is $54, and the overwhelming majority of tickets are ~$70. Of course, the reason for this is that baseball teams play 10x as many games as NFL teams in a season, but that doesn't really matter if you're choosing to go to 1 game. On top of that, my couch experience is better than the game experience. I can actually see everything, I don't have to wait in line to go to the bathroom, it gets loud in my livingroom when I invite enough people over to watch the game, and the quality of beer and food, as well as their accessability is infinitely higher, at 1/10th the price, and after the game I don't have to sit in traffic, I can watch the next game.

    The NFL needs to reduce their ticket prices, while increasing the values of their TV contracts, since the sport is now best seen in your house or in a sports bar, rather than in the stadium.
     
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  7. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    NFL Ticket is my season's pass to any team that I want to watch.

    The stadium experience, IMO, is like taking a cruise - once you've done it, scratch it off your bucket list.
     
  8. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    I loved having my season tickets to the Bolt's for all the years I kept them, game day was always something to look forward to. It was affordable back then and offered plenty of fun for my family and friends ( I had six seats ) sadly though it would be tough to do in today's economy. I believe the NFL has reached it's threshold and decline of live attendance is going to suffer even more so in the future. I sure would choose the comfort of my home as opposed to the pain in the *** nowadays down at the Murph.
     
  9. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    It isn’t just the game; it’s the tailgate before the game. It’s the smell of a thousand barbeques going at the same time. It’s having a good time with good friends before and after the game. It’s mixing it up with the other team’s fans. It’s drinking a cold beer on a Sunday morning and having to wait 2 and half hours till kickoff. It’s standing in line waiting to get rid of that cold beer. It’s trying new food recipes because of the pot luck for each game. It’s all about the tailgate before the game!
     
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  10. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    This is unique to the stadium experience

    Invite your friends over to your house early. To bring non-Chargers' fans into the mix, expand your circle of friends.

    There is absolutely nothing stopping you from drinking at any hour of the day, except yourself. If you want a good "early morning beer" to share with the many friends you should invite to your house, get a Paulaner or Franziskaner Hefeweizen. I don't understand how/why the bolded could possibly be desirable.

    Tell your friends to bring their grills with them to your house and have their wives /gfs make potluck snacks.

    There's nothing about the "tailgating" experience other than the volume of people, the overwhelming majority of whom you don't interact with anyway, that can't be replaced by inviting friends to your home. In order to do these things at the stadium instead of at your house, you pay $20+ in parking fees and sit in traffic.
     
  11. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    http://sports.webshots.com/slideshow/582018741giIoQq

    I invite you to view any of my slide shows, I have taken pictures of every tailgate for the last several years now.

    Going to a pregame tailgate is nothing like staying at home and watching it on TV.
     
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  12. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    I have to agree about the tailgating experience. The rest I can enjoy far more at home, to be honest.
     
  13. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    It's not just about friends. Tailgating with other tailgaters you've never met (and don't plan on becoming life long buddies with) tailgating alongside you creates a great environment. Save the occasional jackass who takes it too seriously, the interaction with total strangers who share one thing in common with you adds to the experience.

    I'm not going to invite a bunch of strangers to my home in a vain attempt to duplicate that.


    Drinking before the game is certainly not unique to tailgating experience, but it nevertheless adds to it.

    Agreed. The one part of H8R's post I didn't agree with. Qualcomm has always had an issue with port-a-poties. They need more. That part takes away from the tailgate experience.

    Not quite the same as a whole stadium parking lot full of tailgaters.

    Do you go to many tailgates? I interact with just about everybody in the section when I'm at them. The vast majority of those I'm interacting with I never met before the game and will likely never see again after the game. It's part of the fun.

    And you point out that I have to sit in traffic (I don't because I take public transportation to and from, but others might...especially the one setting up the tailgate), well, somebody who tries to replicate this experience at home (he won't, but if he tries) will have to clean up the huge mess that comes from hosting a huge party at his home. That's not the case at a tailgate. Yeah, there is still cleanup unless you're an ingrate jackass, but it pales in comparison to the mess that's left at your home.

    At a tailgate, when I'm done with my beer I throw it in the nearest receptacle (or give it to the guy always walking around collecting cans). Other trash I throw away. The Q is responsible for dumping all that. Guess who's responsible for trash clean up and disposal when you invite a large crowd to your home?

    Point being, either way there's a time-consuming price to pay for either choice of action.
     
  14. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    There can be no doubt that you're having a great time among friends and fellow fans in those pictures. However, you could have that same experience in your driveway/backyard, with the exception of the Port-o-potty, Trolley Overpass, and orange cones.
     
  15. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    No.....you can't.

    You can make a vain attempt at trying to recreate it, but you just can't.
     
  16. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I think there's a big difference between what you're describing and what my concept of tailgating is. When I have tailgated, I bring the stuff. It's my vehicle with the dirty grill going into it that I have to clean up, they're my serving dishes/tupperware/etc that I'm going to have to clean up. It sounds to me like you're wandering around getting food that you don't have to clean up, attend, or supply. Obviously, you can't get that at your own home, but that hasn't been my tailgating experience.

    Since I have to do the clean-up whether I bring the party to the stadium or invite people to watch the game at my home, the "experience" isn't the same.
     
  17. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    I can see that you have never been to a tailgate party with a huge group of friends. And after doing for more than 32 years, I can safely say you cannot experience an NFL game at home. You can watch a game at home, but you have to be there in person if you want the full experience.
     
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  18. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Take out the "supply" part and you're about right. I always bring something with me for the crowd when I go to a tailgate. I'm not some freeloading jackass. I've also helped with cleanup with the tailgates I hang out at.

    By the way, I think you have a bit of a wrong impression when I say I interact with everyone. I'm not walking from tailgate to tailgate taking food and what-not. That all stays with my main tailgate group. I'm just BSing with the people at the other tailgates.

    But you still ignored the rest of the post. I did make a bit of a stretch there when I tried to argue that the cleanup is worse mainly because I was comparing the tailgater who isn't hosting to the party host, which wasn't fair. I saw it after I posted but didn't bother to edit.

    The rest of the experience is still different.

    Who says hosting the tailgate is your only option, though?
     
  19. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Define huge? 20 people? I've never tailgated with a group of people I knew that was larger than 25 (friends and acquaintances). The experience of watching a game at the Stadium is certainly different from watching it in your house, because you're not watching the game the same way. You're not watching the player's face, or what it is they're actually doing, you're watching figures running around on a field that's between 200-600 feet away from you, depending on which part of the field you're referring to and where your seats are. Having been to what I would consider a decent sized tailgating party, I would compare the experience to being at any other party. The smaller the party, the more personal the interaction is, with the opposite also being the case. Having been to/thrown college parties which had hundreds of people at them, I am fairly certain that going to/organizing a similarly sized tailgating party is nothing I'd be interested in.

    If the tailgating experience you're referring to is that of wandering among thousands of strangers and taking their food/booze, then no, you won't get that environment at a party you're throwing in your home. I suppose this is a case of different experiences stemming from what exactly "tailgating" is to you.
     
  20. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I suppose it isn't. However, to me, and maybe I'm alone here, and if so, fine, "Tailgating" is different from "Going to a Tailgate". From the pictures I saw, it looks like one of SDRH's friends (or he) is putting on a well-catered tailgating event at the Stadium, which he could do at his house. It looks like there were 10-15 recurring people in those pictures, and ~5 cars. That's $1000 a week in tickets (minimum) and $100 bucks a week in parking, on top of the self-catering costs, in order to barely be able to see the game, and have random people walk up to you who happen to be Chargers' fans to speak with you.
     
  21. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Ugh, no. Why do you keep lumping interaction with other tailgaters in with eating their food and drinking their booze?

    I can interact with other tailgaters while still supplying my own beer.

    Also, you don't need to wander around the entire stadium to interact with more than 20-25 people. Just one section alone provides a huge crowd of tailgaters to interact with.

    And that's not taking into account interactions with passers-by on their way to the stadium.
     
  22. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    These tailgates aren't financed by one person, so pointing out the combined costs isn't very relevant or fair.

    Think of it like a glorified pot luck party. The vast majority of the stuff is provided by the people showing up to the tailgates. It's not just one or two, or even 5 people bringing everything and everyone else just showing up to eat it. And they're certainly not paying for everybody's ticket. (Hell, some people show up then go home before gametime to watch at home)

    And yeah, the same basic concept is there if you throw a party at your home, but there's much more room, much more interaction with others who aren't partaking in the consumption of your food/beer, and much less concern of your 57" flat screen getting broken by an overzealous drinker.
     
  23. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Let me put it this way. You're drawing the difference between "going to a tailgate" and "tailgating" (ie hosting it) here, and it's a fair observation. There's certainly a big difference between going to tailgates and actually being the one who sets it up and brings most of the supplies.

    But, let me ask you this. Can you just randomly walk from house to house and shoot the **** with random people you don't know just because you notice they're watching (or getting ready to watch) the same football game as you? No. You'd likely get the cops called on you, or at the very least your *** beat if you tried that.

    At the stadium, you can effectively go from party to party and shoot the **** with a whole row of people with no regard. (Stressing the fact that I'm not eating everyone's food here, again.)

    Even as the host, there's a whole myriad of other tailgates going on around you. As the host you're likely not free to wander far because you'd be leaving your tailgate behind, but there's at least 5 or 6 other tailgates going on around and right by you that you can interact with. These are not your circle of friends. They're just other fans who enjoy the same game, and most likely the same team as you.

    And then there are the people who are free to wander. You don't have to worry about the friend who turns down your invitation because another friend invited him first. He can go to both tailgates, as I often do. I spend part of the time at the Bolttalk tailgate, and wander over to a Navy buddy's tailgate who's usually there as well. Sometimes I'll make my way over to everyone's favorite Norv hater's tailgate as well.

    Whether you like that sort of thing or not you have to admit that it makes it a uniquely different experience than just having a bunch of your own friends together at your home.
     
  24. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I wasn't even talking about the tailgating costs, but rather the costs of your game tickets and parking (which, how much tailgating are you doing if you go to the game, then have to leave in order to be home for kickoff?). Those costs aren't borne by any one person, but they are a collective cost for the group to have their tailgating party, which are "extra" costs compared to having a party at your house.

    Right, it's a pot luck party where you provide a portion of a catered meal for 15-20 people. There's no difference between doing this at your home or doing it in a stadium parking lot other than the additional traffic and grilling out of the bed of your truck, or having to pull your grill out of the back of your SUV.

    Blue is relative. If you have a large backyard/living room, you probably have as much room at your home as you do at the stadium, because although you don't have a 25 square mile parking lot at your home, you also aren't sharing your space with 70,000 other people, either.

    If you have a potluck, than your interactions are with people who are partaking in the consumption of our food and beer, and who you presumably know, and hopefully, like. The bold is a real concern, but that's also part of the reason you have homeowners insurance (obviously if drunky kills the TV while the game is on you've got a problem on a whole other level.)
     
  25. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    And this isn't just in San Diego.

    My brother and I went to Cincinnati for a Chargers/Bengals game there (He's a Bengals fan). We were visitors with no car to tailgate in. All we had was a backpack full of beer and ourselves.

    We found a couple tailgates, offered some beer, and were welcomed right into the fold. Why? Because of no other reason that we are also football fans.

    Try doing that at a house party. Try it from both perspectives. Try just walking into a house and offering a beer to the person watching the game and see what happens. Conversely, as the host of a party with your friends how are you going to react if some stranger just invites himself into your home? Probably not well.

    Don't get me wrong. Some random dude walking up to your tailgate and accepting him into your little group might not be your thing, but you can't deny this makes for a unique experience whether you like the concept or not.

    And, for the record, while we did get some food at the tailgate we ended up at it was not requested. We were just looking for a group to shoot the **** with before the game and they offered it unsolicited. It's that kind of camaraderie amongst football fans that I love about the tailgating experience. .
     
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  26. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Right. There are unique costs to the setup. But pointing out the overall cost while ignoring the fact that it's shared is a slanted argument. You make it sound like "I choose to tailgate, I have to pay at least 1000 bucks just for the tickets". That's hardly the case.

    The only thing the tailgate and the potluck at your home share in common is a group of people and a bunch of food. You keep responding to that while ignoring the differences that are being posted.

    Room for 70,000 other people is what makes it a unique experience. Again, you don't have to like the experience to acknowledge it as different.

    Why do you put "our" in italics? There's obviously unspoken lines that need not be crossed at a tailgate. Much like at a potluck, you're not going to let some jackass show up with two beers and then eat everything saying he provided. The same unspoken social guidelines are just the same at tailgates.

    Homeowner's insurance isn't going to stop you from missing the game after drunky breaks the TV.

    But, that's a silly risk I'd be willing to take if I want to have a get together at my place. I'd like to think my friends wouldn't be that irresponsible (but who knows, **** happens). I was simply providing a unique risk you're taking with the at-home get together since you're only bringing up the negatives of tailgating.
     
  27. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Going tailgating is absolutely different. The red is an advantage, though it also assumes that a big portion of your circle of friends are going to the game.

    What I'm getting at is that the NFL is pricing their events as though the difference between going to a game and watching it from home were the equivalent of going to a concert versus sitting in your house listening to your iPod with earphones on, which to me isn't the case at all.

    You can interact with a much larger group of people while tailgating, but your ability to watch the game is reduced by the nature of the game. I mean, my experiences tailgating and going to games versus having football parties has been that you interact with more strangers, and see less of the game, while hearing/feeling crowd noise, and the number of additional people that I, as a host, had interacted with was not really all that large. I was left thinking I would've rather spent the 300 dollars in "game costs" on a vacation.
     
  28. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I'm not ignoring that it's shared. If I have a party (with potluck food) then the costs of having the party are also shared by those involved, however the total shared cost for those coming is 1000 bucks less because we're having the party at my home instead of going to the game.
     
  29. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    You won't get an argument from me that NFL ticket prices are too high or that the difference between actually watching the game at the stadium compared to watching it at home are not that big. (And, in fact, it's arguably better to watch at home).

    But you've been attempting to draw a distinction between tailgating at the stadium and throwing a football-related party at your home. It's not really the same thing.

    In fact, I'd go as far as to argue that the tailgate experience is the only reason ticket sales haven't plummeted. So, yeah, we'd likely benefit better if we collectively sacrificed that experience across the nation long enough to make a point, but that's an unrealistic expectation in an open market economy.
     
  30. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    But it's not really fair to say it's 1000 bucks less because I'm not paying an extra 1000 bucks.

    It's 50-70 bucks less for me. Probably a little more (but not as much as you're saying) for the host who has parking costs.

    Using the collective cost is just employing a shock factor rhetorical device. It sounds more damning to say you're paying an added 1000 bucks in costs than it does to point out what's actually coming out of my pocket.
     

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