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AJ's derogation

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by NW Bolt Fan, Apr 27, 2008.

  1. NW Bolt Fan

    NW Bolt Fan BoltTalker

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    Let me begin by saying, I love the guy. He's the best GM I've known us to have (though I've defended Bobby on some regards). He is staunch in following his own predetermined values, prognosticates the future of the club by position, and evaluates talent as well as, or better than anyone in the business. When dealing from a position of power he's as good as they come. When in a position of need- he's falling well short.

    The following details my lone criticism of him; one that continues to persist. IMO, AJ has a tendency to give up too much sometimes for players he wants. He gave up too much for Keenan McCardell (something like a 3rd, 5th, and possible 3rd) for a guy who'd been sitting out half the season in TB. He gave up a TON to draft Weddle. He gave a 5th for Oben. While we REALLY needed Oben, taking into consideration the draft TB had prior to us trading for him (2 high OTs taken, plus a FA OT acquisition), we paid too much. We trade next year's #2 and this year's #5 for Hester. It's too much. I realize some are saying, well we're basically moving 20 spots up because our #2 will be late... That is an ASSUMPTION! The Pats dealt from a position of power here, and stuck it to us. Just as the Bears did 2 years ago. We NEED an Offensive Tackle. Badly. Now we're going to be dealing from a position of need again. If we trade a draft pick for a player, or sign one from FA it completely negates the 2 compensatory picks we're bound to get for Turner and Florence, and the same happens if we sign a FA. I appreciate that AJ didn't "reach" for an O-tackle after the huge run on them in the 1st round, but it's still a need. Even if the Bolts know something about Tony Pape (the only tackle on the roster behind the starters) we still need another 1 at the least.

    While I loved the players AJ has accquired, I still believe, when dealing from a deficit in position, he's getting run. We were fortunate that Accorsi didn't use Eli's immediate shun to drive down little Manning's value. And, I appreciate that AJ likely would have stood his ground, holding onto Eli until the offer was fair. However, by that time, we well could have been further screwed. This is an example of AJ dealing from a questionable position of power. When it's come to negotiations, etc. he's done well. I felt holding onto MT was a good move. I felt he had little choice in the movement of Brees. But when we get into a spot when we NEED someone, he's easy prey.

    We've fallen into a bit of a "pattern" which I feel is unhealthy. AJ did use free agency to bolster the team when he initially gained control of the team. Steve Foley and Goff were HUGE for this team. There have been some other less valuable, but still contributing players. McCree, Jue, Volek... We need to use all facets of team building avenues ALL... THE... TIME!

    It's not a chicken little rant, but a criticism of one aspect I've grown to dislike regarding AJ's position moves. Thoughts?
     
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  2. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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    I think 31 of AJ's draft picks are on the roster. No GM is even close. Also, you won't know how good a draft is until 3 years later. I don't question AJ anymore. Just look at the past 4 years.
     
  3. BoltzRule

    BoltzRule Well-Known Member

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    His trades have worked out haven't they? :icon_shrug:

    Some consider us the most talented team in the league, you may think he gives up too much in trades but obviously it's working, the team continues getting better.

    AJ drafts bpa, on his board and that's the way things should be done. Even if that means overlooking another position which might be considered a bigger, it results in filling another need.

    And really is there that big a difference between a 5th, 6th, 7th round OT and Pape? Pape was a late round pick as well, plus there's still the 7th and udfa
     
  4. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    It's hard to argue much with AJ's success rate. Better than most. :yes:

    He goes after the players that he wants who are still on the board. Not saying that he doesn't look at value, but if he thinks he sees a player who has the strong potential to be a high performer as a Charger
    for an extended period, he goes for it. He's building a perennial contender via the draft.
     
  5. wrbanwal

    wrbanwal Well-Known Member

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    Given hindsight and all,

    I would rather we traded MT last year after seeing the year he just had. Seems like Norv didn't use him in the same way Schott did.

    Other than that, No complaints, dude has been nuts putting this team together

    :tup:
     
  6. BoltzRule

    BoltzRule Well-Known Member

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    We used him/needed him in the playoffs.
     
  7. MasterOfPuppets

    MasterOfPuppets Charger fan since 1979

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    in AJ I trust, when will people learn, every year AJ is questioned and critized for he's actions and every year he schools everyone on how to draft :abq2:

    in this trade, a fifth rounder might not even make the team and next years #2 is some 8 picks before this years #3 they got (next year's #2 will be in the 60th-64th overall range, this year's #3 was 69th)
     
  8. Thumper

    Thumper WHS

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    This is exactly a chicken little rant. :yawn:
     
  9. Stan_The_Man_12

    Stan_The_Man_12 BoltTalker

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    Respectfully agree to disagree :flag: :flag: :flag:

    Stan :rivers17:
     
  10. BlueandGold

    BlueandGold The Oracle

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    Made this post a little while ago.

    Looks like same ol' same ol' this year, heh.

    Don't worry, once TC rolls around, we'll start hearing some mea culpas.

    For now, get all the *****ing out of your systems. I'll wait.
     
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  11. wrbanwal

    wrbanwal Well-Known Member

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    If you have any doubt about AJ/Nix and their eye for talent, just visit the Lions draft bunker


    You'll need a shower after but get a renewed love for our Bolt front office


    :tup::tup::tup:
     
  12. Electric Chair

    Electric Chair Well-Known Member

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    Gil Brandt said that the league average is 26% of drafted players become starters.

    Where do the Chargers stack up against that stat? 'Nuff said.

    We aren't building a team any longer. It's built. We are tweaking the engine to win a Super Bowl by adding a few key players that AJ sees as being able to contribute in a limited role/depth. The guy's track record speaks for itself, and he's a Super Bowl Championship away from being regarded as the best in the business by the national mediots (although I know that most of us already know that he is).
     
  13. Electric Chair

    Electric Chair Well-Known Member

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    And we didn't give up three draft picks for Keenan. We gave up ONE. A 3rd. That's it, unless my memory is totally shot. We gave up a second for Chambers who is in his prime, NO WAY we gave up 3 picks for Keenan who was busy sitting out the season in Tampa.

    If you are going to complain about what we give up, you need to at least get your facts straight. Not to sound like a dick, but c'mon...
     
  14. chargerlipz

    chargerlipz Leading the league in nose hairs.

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    I disagree.
    Oben was used with the pick obtained from the Giants in the Rivers-Manning trade. Oben acted primarily as a player-mentor. I think he is one of the main reasons our young line is as good as it is today because of his presence in the locker room. Well worth a 5th round pick, in my eyes.
    As for Weddle, Oakland, Atlanta, Miami, and Atlanta again were the following picks after we got him. How do you know Weddle wasn't targeted by one of these teams? On Atlanta's second 2nd round pick they took a DB. If we didn't move up we would have had to pick 25 spots later. Weddle is no slouch, he most definitely would have been gone. Furthermore, the guy contributes, it's his second year and he's one of our starting safeties. He must be doing something right.
    As for bringing up the Rivers-Manning trade like AJ got lucky, I think that is mootable, because reality is, AJ socked it to the Giants. Getting pro bowlers Rivers, Merriman and Kaeding for Manning is pretty damn good. Saying "We were fortunate that Accorsi didn't use Eli's immediate shun to drive down little Manning's value" would be an ASSUMPTION in itself.
    I just don't think it's as detrimental as you make it out to be.
    Anyway, good post though.:tup:
     
  15. chargerlipz

    chargerlipz Leading the league in nose hairs.

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    Actually, a 3rd and a 6th for Keenan. However, it wasn't like the guy was riding the bench collecting his cash, he was a big time contributor to our team until his final year with us. Then we let him go.
     
  16. Electric Chair

    Electric Chair Well-Known Member

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    I need to Google it because I don't believe your sorry ***, Mr Nostril Man. :lol:

    EDIT: You win. :kisskiss:
     
  17. Boltdiehard

    Boltdiehard Well-Known Member

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    We don't win in Indy last year without Chambers and IMO he's the guy that has helped VJ the most. Those two went nuts in the playoffs and I think the Hester pick is another piece to Norv's evolving new offense. LT and Gates really didn't do much in the postseason yet we were very close to the big dance. AJ has earned the benefit of the doubt. :yes:

    How soon we forget how far we've come. I would have liked some fat guys but we say that every year. :lol:
     
  18. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    So here we are again. The annual post-draft gnashing of teeth and rendering of garments over how badly AJ phucked up the draft. Some of you cats will never learn.

    Aren't you the same guys who questioned the picks of Cro and McNeill? Who said we gave up too much for Weddle? The more things change, the more they stay the same.
     
  19. chargerlipz

    chargerlipz Leading the league in nose hairs.

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    My nostrils have a knack for getting me out of trouble and I'm not talking in the olfaction sense either.
     
  20. wrbanwal

    wrbanwal Well-Known Member

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    who the F*** cares?


    Just makin conversation


    :icon_party::icon_party:
     
  21. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    And what do you think I'm doin?
     
  22. wrbanwal

    wrbanwal Well-Known Member

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    complaining about how some things never change???


    :icon_huh::icon_huh::icon_huh:
     
  23. Savage Lizard

    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

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    Draft picks are just a means to an end. You can use them in any number of ways. If they have a player they want, they should go get him and not worry about what "value" they gave up.

    It's been said many times, so I guess I'll just say it again. The team's roster is in fantastic shape, and AJ and Buddy know what the hell they are doing.
     
  24. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    I was merely pointing out that the same people make the same doom and gloom predictions after most drafts. How is that not a valid discussion of the draft, but bashing AJ is?

    If I'm complaining about people complaining about the draft, then you're complaining about me complaining about people complaining about the draft. :icon_shrug:
     
  25. ETicket

    ETicket Well-Known Member

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    I did.... and I was totally WRONG!
     
  26. Electric Chair

    Electric Chair Well-Known Member

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    :icon_banana::icon_banana::icon_banana::icon_banana::icon_banana:
     
  27. bigcarson50

    bigcarson50 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly!!

    it isn't that criticism of AJ is never warranted. I personally question taking the second RB and the second CB (to some extent), so I am not the biggest fan of this draft (I really love the Hester thing and am happy with Cason). But it seems that the loudest ones complaining are the ones that do so every year. Considering AJ's track record vs. those complaining, it really downgrades the credibility of the complainers' arguments.

    Anyway here is my quick synopsis of the draft

    Cason--OK we needed a corner, sounds good to me

    Hester--Awesome I view this as giving up a fifth and the other two picks should be a pretty even swap. Hester can be so versatille in Norv's system in ways the Lo Neal never could. he will be awesome in short yardage as well.

    Marcus Thomas--Don't really get it. I guess this is a back up plan in case Hester can't relieve LT in running the ball as much as I thought he was going to when we picked him.

    DeJuan Tribble--As good as our DB's were last year. I really don't think we were that deep (past the first five) and we did "lose" two of them. At first I really didn't see the point of this pick, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. We need as much amo to play with Indy and NE. Line 'em up three deep and let 'em compete.

    Corey Clark--Much needed beef. I am assuming he will stick due to depth concerns, but let's hope we don't need him right away.
     
  28. NW Bolt Fan

    NW Bolt Fan BoltTalker

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    What doom and gloom? What "bashing?" I think I pretty clearly said I love the guy...
     
  29. Retired Catholic

    Retired Catholic BoltTalker

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    This is exactly right. The first two picks look like good depth. My only question is why we waited so long for a O Lineman. We got a DB and a backup runner. Why draft two more before a lineman. No matter how it works our, two of three filled needs is decent. I imagine AJ wilil load up on UFDA's on the line. If only one of them clicks, we'll probably be alright.
     

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