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Anteater's Draft Review

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by AnteaterCharger, May 2, 2011.

  1. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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  2. foober

    foober BoltTalker

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    I know you and everyone is gonna rip mouton. But the more I research him the more I realize why they got him. He's one tough mean sum bitch. With some pretty good athletic ability. They got mouton to make us tougher. Which we need. Same reason they got the missouri linebacker.

    And after researching the db's we got. They're actually really good players. The usc kid is fast as lightning and very aware of whats going on. The clemson db is very good at coverage skills and smart along with good athletic ability.

    Leigut will make us better right off the bat. He's really good. Big bubble butt with a motor that doesn't stop.

    the only player I see not making the team is the michigan guard/tackle. I watched some tape of him and he's not very good at reacting to counter moves. Maybe they can teach him how to stay squared and keep himself in front of pass rushers.
     
  3. RipTheJacker

    RipTheJacker Well-Known Member

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    Stopped reading at.......
    "Jonas Mouton, a UDFA"

    Just shows how clueless and immature you are
     
  4. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I'm not sure where the "no athleticism" knock on Mouton comes from. Mayock calls him "highly athletic"...... Just viewing his combine workout shows the guy is pretty nimble on his feet.....

    NFL Videos: Chargers take Jonas Mouton No. 61

    You also said he had "little production"....... huh? Mouton led the Big Ten in tackles in 2010. Where did you get your information from? :confused:
     
  5. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    I don't find the best tackler on the worst defensive team in the country to be conductive towards "production". And I'd read the reports and see his "highlights" to suggest a lack of talent
     
  6. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Not just "best tackler on the worst defensive team", he was the best tackler in the Big Ten conference..... not a small difference.

    You also said he had "no athleticism"...... I don't know where you got that from. It's obvious watching him that that's not the case. Both Mayock and Charles called him "highly athletic". No offense, but your criticism doesn't make any sense.
     
  7. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    That's fine, but you wouldn't say such a player has 'little production.'
    He had great production--you just think it won't translate. And you could very well be correct, but saying the leading tackler in the Big 10 has little production suggests a different definition of production than most use. Perhaps 'production' was confused with 'prediction.'

    That said, thanks for the rundown--one of the best I've read--I agreed on most everything else except your assessment of a 7th round comp flyer on an effort guy.
     
  8. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    One other thing I will point out about this draft, and it just occurred to me over dinner tonight - we all know that high among AJ's objectives for any draft is to fix those problems that most immediately led to our demise the previous season. In 2009 we came off a season where we lacked pass-rush something fierce, and we went pass-rusher early. Last year, we were coming off a season where our running game was next to non-existent... so we draft the top RB on AJ's board.

    This past season the debacle was special teams... but it was also that when some players decided to exercise their right to holdout for long-term contracts and pick the betterment of self over betterment of the team (their prerogative to do so, I'm not casting disparages here) and we lacked the depth of players that didn't have to go through some on-the-job training when it came to being thrown into the fire and expected to produce ASAP.

    Now you look at after DE - which was our most glaring need because we had a whopping (2) total players on our roster at the position going into the draft - you look at two of the next three positions we addressed... i.e. two positions where we had players who, if uncapped rules are in effect, will be tied to us by tenders (Jackson under the franchise tag, Floyd and Weddle under RFA tenders) and could well go the holdout route that VJ and MM went last year. That does synthesize a need for more pro-ready guys at the positions - and those guy may not have ceilings quite as high as others at similar position in the draft, but it well could have given them greater value to us.

    Now, Ant, you could make a case that Greg Little was just as pro ready and with a higher ceiling than Gilchrist - but this WR class was much deeper than the safety class was... and our roster is deeper at WR than it is at S even if we were to lose all of Jackson, Floyd, and Naanee to a combination of free agency and holdouts because having the Qb we have in Rivers adds a premium to the value of any WR that already knows our offense.

    With the Brown pick, what do you want? Yes... we could and possibly should have gone WR where we went ILB - but ILB was also a fairly obvious need due to lack of depth or even really two ready Day One starters on the roster (since we really don't know where Butler's healthy lies) and the front office liked the guy they took so they pushed WR off for one more pick because there was still plenty of quality depth to the class left on the board. Valuing Jernigan over Brown is dumb in my book... the guy has stretch-the-field speed, nice for him. He's also slot-limited (very few receivers of his size have the vertical jump or the hand strength to fight off press coverage to be edge receivers like Steve Smith and Mike Wallace), he runs all of 3 routes in the route tree, and he struggles fighting press. Brown on the other hand runs a full route tree (cleanly at that), has shown better success against press coverage, and has a higher football IQ (one of the other knocks I saw on Jernigan from several scouting sources was that he'd struggle with more advanced or complicated playbooks). We elected for polish over potential - that's not something I can particularly fault the FO for all that much.
     
  9. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Frankly, I don't think people give Mouton enough credit for being the leading tackler. Think about it, all it takes is for one guy not doing his job to give up a big play (see Cromartie, playoffs vs Jets).

    Ordinarily, the inside linebacker should have the most tackles by design. Since more college teams are running (rather than passing teams) that's probably even more true in college, than the pros. That is only true though, if the other players are doing their jobs correctly. The D-line has to account for the lineman and allow the ILB to be free to take on the RB. If you have a poor D-line, then the O-linemen can get through to engage the second level..... the linebackers.

    People discredit Mouton by saying he was the best player on a terrible defense, but I believe the opposite. If your teammates aren't very good, that only makes your job harder, not easier. The fact that Mouton led the Big Ten in tackles is therefore a real achievement. It would appear that the Charger brass felt the same way, one reason they took him higher than many had him graded.
     
  10. jackfrost

    jackfrost Well-Known Member

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    I havent read a single post in here but this one and thought Id just throw this in for the hell of it in response to the whole ...."he cant be to bad if he lead the Conf. in tackles" debate.

    I read a post from some guy (who seen ever Michigan this season) that simply stated that Moutons tackle count was severly overated on the simple fact that Michigan were that bad, their "D" could never get off the field, thus this poor kid and the rest of his teamates spent more than your average team's Defense out on the field.......does have some credence I do believe, sbut on the other hand, it may also show how durable the kid is and what a good motor he has, who knows until we see him in a game situation.

    Now, that could be a good thing or bad thing for us, depending on how you see the whole "Wear & Tear" issue !!!

    I have no thoughts on this kid in the least by the way and wont have until I see him in person, in full game mode, playing real crashbang football.
     
  11. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    EXCELLENT!!!! Practice makes perfect!
     
  12. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Sure, you could say his stats were skewed by being out on the field longer, just as our #1 defensive ranking was skewed by the special teams gaffs. But, as you also point out, defensive players who stay out on the field get tired, and give up more plays as well.

    We certainly remember how New England killed us in the playoffs by going jumbo package with three TE's and just ramming the ball through the defense. We couldn't get off the field or stop the clock.

    Despite all that, I would still contend that having bad teammates doesn't make you play better..... just the opposite.
     
  13. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    It's all relative to the situation. For instance, Cooper made a lot of tackles, but he also missed a lot.
    I haven't watched Mouton enough to make any evaluation. He could be a Cooper. He could be a Willis. He could be a bust. He could be the AJ gem we haven't seen in years. We'll find out this year (or next....)
     
  14. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Yes, but Cooper didn't play on the "worst defense in the conference"....... that was the point I was making. Cooper should make a lot of tackles, that's the way the defense is designed.

    Mouton at least has a reputation as a "hitter"..... something you could never accuse Cooper of being. :D
     
  15. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Why bother clicking? We've already read your review in just about every draft thread on these forums and in your sig. :lol:
     
  16. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    Jr. Seau was the best player on the worst defense for years, on any other team with a great defense he'd of just been a regular Joe.
     
  17. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    He was also one of the best players on a very good college team and because of that was drafted 5th overall, he had athleticism, skill, intensity, things I don't see much of in Mouton

    Oh and LBC regarding Brown (which is a pick I liked), I only question if we could have used a burner instead. When it was floyd and naane starting what we lacked was a deep threat like Jackson was. We have guys who are pretty good at going over the middle and being a possession receiver (Crayton, Floyd) but we need someone who can force defenses to play deep. I believe Jerrigan or Little would have been better at that then Brown was, but Brown was one of the picks I didn't have a problem with.
     
  18. Zeus

    Zeus BoltTalker

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    I give your draft grade a C+.

    A slightly above average analysis. Although the writer knows the team his understanding of college football is questionable at best. He takes small amounts of information and makes leaps. There were a couple of glaring mistakes and information passed over to form his own conclusion.

    The writer utilizes facts to draw out a pessimistic conclusion that was predetermined. It is strongly hinted that he uses other people's mock drafts and ratings to support his own. One of the lowest rated grades of draft grades out there.

    The worst being the SI draft grade that docked points because Norv Turner is the Charger's HC and gave points to Denver because Elway is there.
     
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  19. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

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    Bolttalk is a platform to exchange opinion. The dangers of mistaking this for real journalism are so remote as to be virtually non-existent.
     
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  20. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Ant, you do realize that in those instances when it was Floyd/Naanee that most of that time Gates was injured? He's a threat to stretch the field, when healthy, for us quite a bit. You really only need a guy who is a threat to consistently beat or get behind the CB in the first couple yards to force the safeties to not creep up into the box. That's something of a misnomer about the "deep-threat" if the intent is purely to force safeties to stay home for fear of needing to be a last-line-of-defense.

    Correct me if I'm wrong too, but our coaches have always placed a premium on our receivers being blockers in the run game, have they not? Jernigan gives effort there - as do most of the smallish/speed guys - but even on his best day he's a pest at best who will get chucked aside (or trucked like Sproles last season) by larger NFL defenders. It was supposed to be one of Buster's finer selling points on his scouting report. It was definitely on VJ's. Run-blocking was listed on Seyi's as a strength.

    We're not done bringing in receivers, I have to believe that. And there are plenty of guys still out there with "deep speed" that need work on other facets of their game, they just weren't worth spending high draft picks on. And in the case of a number of them (Tolliver for instance) they offer nothing on S/T's so that effectively killed using the priority-FA pick (last 7th of a given draft year) on them.
     
  21. ThunderHorse17

    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

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    It was a pretty good review ant.

    LBC this is a pretty good epiphony, which I to am starting to see that this could be more than just the GREATEST fit for our scheme ST players. We did get alot of players that have Great sticking chances with this team. Also another big reason I have started to hate our draft less is the BIG STORY of this draft being FULL of reaches. And it was. We didnt reach nearly as much as alot of other teams.

    I agree too that we could see a UDFA WR end up on the opening season roster.
     
  22. foober

    foober BoltTalker

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    you left out one fact. MOuton was apparently the one having to make the tackles. Considering the other 10 players couldn't do it. (cough) The point is he gets in there and makes tackles. And he's one tough sum bitch. Something the chargers need. If he can do these things and we get butler back with leiguet were gonna be "ALOt" better on defense. Not to mention the good cover db's we got. But as we know. It usually takes a rookie a year or two to really get it in the nfl.
     
  23. foober

    foober BoltTalker

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    I didn't see wr brown play. But watching his clip at the combine he looks like he makes cuts extremely well and has good hands. All it takes is to get open. If brown leaves players 2 yards behind him with a good cut thats as good as someone with Olympic speed on getting open.
     

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